F-22 or F-35? you decide!!

Discussion in 'Military' started by Navy1960, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is a fifth-generation fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It was designed primarily as an air superiority fighter, but has additional capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence roles. Lockheed Martin Aeronautics is the prime contractor and is responsible for the majority of the airframe, weapon systems and final assembly of the F-22. Program partner Boeing Integrated Defense Systems provides the wings, aft fuselage, avionics integration, and all of the pilot and maintenance training systems.

    In April 2006, the cost of the F-22 was assessed by the Government Accountability Office to be $361 million per aircraft

    F-22 Raptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is a fifth-generation, single-seat, single-engine, stealth-capable military strike fighter, a multirole aircraft that can perform close air support, tactical bombing, and air defense missions.[5] The F-35 has three different models; one is the conventional takeoff and landing variant, the second is short takeoff and vertical-landing variant, and the third is a carrier-based variant.

    The F-35 is descended from the X-35, the product of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program. Its development is being principally funded by the United States, with the United Kingdom, and other partner governments providing additional funding.[6] It is being designed and built by an aerospace industry team led by Lockheed Martin with Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems as major partners.[6] Demonstrator aircraft flew in 2000,[7] with the first flight on 15 December 2006.[8]

    Concerns about the F-35's performance have resulted partially from reports of RAND simulations where numerous Russian Sukhoi fighters defeat a handful of F-35s by denying tanker refueling.[47] As a result of these issues the then-Australian defence minister, Joel Fitzgibbon, requested a formal briefing from the Department of Defence (Australia) on the computer simulation. This briefing stated that the reports of the simulation were inaccurate, and that it did not compare the F-35's performance against that of other aircraft.[48]

    The criticism of the F-35 has been dismissed by the Pentagon and manufacturer.[47][49] The USAF has conducted an analysis of the F-35's air-to-air performance against all 4th generation fighter aircraft currently available, and has found the F-35 to be at least four times more effective. Maj Gen Charles R. Davis, USAF, the F-35 program executive officer, has stated that the "F-35 enjoys a significant Combat Loss Exchange Ratio advantage over the current and future air-to-air threats, to include Sukhois".[49] The Russian, Indian, Chinese, and other air forces operate Sukhoi Su-27/30 fighters.

    The F-35 will have a helmet mounted cueing system similar to the system already in service with the F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s,[50] the AN/AAQ-37 Electro Optical Distributed Aperture System that "renders maneuverability irrelevant",[51] and improved data processors.[52] Lockheed Martin claims the F-35 will have turning agility/ability of up to 9 g's and provide close-in or long-range air-to-air combat capability second only to the F-22 Raptor, and superior to all other fighters.[
    F-35 Lightning II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    While these two aircraft are good examples of the best American Aviation has to offer, it must be said that the current debate over the F-22 is one that does not take into consideration of actual roles. The F-22 is a pure air-to-air fighter aircraft which does have air to ground capability , but it is UNMATCHED in capability when it comes to all around performace. The F-35 is a completly different aircraft and it's mission is more akin to a fighter bomber much along the lines of a F-18 , it has good performance in the air to air role but that is NOT it's primary role. Now while it is my opnion that the USAF should be allowed to purchase whatever the mission calls for, the solution here on an economic level seems to be a simple one. Lift the ban on exports on the F-22 and that would result in around 120 more aircraft by foreign buyers such as Aus. and Japan which makes good strategic sense and also good economic sense for this nation. It will also allow the line to remain open should the USAF wish to revist more F-22's should a need arise through attrition without the need to spend billions of dollars to restart the line. In the mean time the DoD can concentrate on the F-35 and finally get this aircraft to the warfighters.
     
  2. Harry Dresden
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    Harry Dresden Latinum, Plantinum,Silver,Gold Member Supporting Member

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    just saw a show on this on the military channel,about the top 10 fighter jets of the world....they had 3 "experts" on and they all seemed to agree that the Raptor,which was no.1 is the best jet ever and is so much more advanced than anything out there in air combat that they do not think anyone will try to top it.... it is just to expensive to try....they seemed to think the new wave of jets will be advanced drones...with fighter jet capabilities....
     
  3. DiveCon
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    DiveCon gone

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    i've always felt that they made too many compromises on the F-35 to make it fit so many mission roles
    while the F-22 fully does the role it was designed for
     
  4. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    My firm recenlty did a write up on the F-22 Harry and the conclusion has always been the same. The aircraft is superior in all phases of performance. However it's a belief among the aviation community that this aircraft represents one of the last manned pure fighter aircraft and the 6th generation will be or at least some will be unmanned. It's also my belief that the aircraft line can be kept open if the ban on exports is lifted or a partial ban is placed on its sale to approved nations.
     
  5. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Gen. Norton Schwartz, Air Force chief of staff, said he would not dispute a characterization that over the coming three years the service was seeking to add 60 of the premier fighter jets to the 183 now on order, for a total of 243.

    The revised request would be for a fleet totaling fewer than 381 Raptors, the previous Air Force goal, Schwartz told reporters, without disclosing the new number.

    The Air Force once sought to buy as many as 750 F-22s, which it reckoned cost about $142 million apiece in fiscal 2008, not including development costs.

    The revised requirement is "driven by analysis as opposed to some other formulation," Schwartz said. "And I think it will withstand scrutiny."

    The administration must make critical decisions about the F-22 by about March 1 or Lockheed Martin says it will start phasing out the production line, threatening tens of thousands of jobs during the current recession.

    Schwartz said he expects to present the Air Force's new F-22 analysis to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates within a few weeks. He said the analysis did not factor in jobs, which he called the responsibility of other U.S. officials.

    Pressed on why the Air Force was giving up on the 381 F-22s it had long stated it needed to make sure it could dominate the skies from Day One of any future major conflict, Schwartz spoke of going from a "low risk" to a "moderate risk" number.


    I heard this same thing when congress was trying to kill the F-15 and F-16 as well as cut back on production because the F-4 was good enough and we have all seen the results of purchasing those aircraft as well as the F=18. This is nothing new in defense spending when it comes to aircraft what is new that if the F-22 is stopped we will for the first time in a very long time as a nation give up on what is the worlds best air to air fighter. The Navy now is totally reliant on the the F-18 airframe for it's needs when it comes to air to air missions and air to gound mission and with Russian advances in the SU-37 and its proven ability vs. the F-15C and the F-18 to limit capability of this vital asset seems rather short sighted. However, as stated earlier if the Govt. wishes to save the taxpayers money here lift the export ban all that takes is the stroke of a pen
     
  6. Xenophon
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    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

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    I would rather have F 22s.

    This same argument was made about F 15s years ago, that it was not multi role and was a pure air fighter. Eventually they upgraded the Eagle to air to ground missions.
     
  7. Dayton3
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    Dayton3 Member

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    The F-22 would be the superior option for the United States Air Force.

    But, the Navy and Marine Corps not to mention the British and Australians also need the F-35.

    Build them both. The more the better.

    And in regards to unmanned drones.

    Not a chance.

    No one is going to give drones the power to launch attacks on their own.

    And in any kind of major war, remote control of drones can be jammed.
     
  8. Terry
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    Terry Shut the $%$ Up!

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    F-22 baby, they rock! I see them fly around in the sky's over Langley AFB and man are they a sight to watch.
     
  9. DiveCon
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    the F-35 has too many missions and doesnt do any of them as well as they could if they built two other planes
    they are trying to replace too many airframes/missions with one
     
  10. Toome
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    Toome Active Member

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    Until I saw the F-22 at an air show recently, I thought the F-16 was a highly maneuverable aircraft. One of the F-16 Viper's most impressive features was its capability turn around 180 degrees in a very tight circle.

    The F-22 made the F-16 look like a crop duster.

    The problem with fighter-bombers is that they sacrifice maneuverability for delivery. They can carry bombs, but they're slow to turn compared to modern fighters. When it comes to dog fights, US pilots deserve aircraft that can outmaneuver opponents. We have plenty of bombers and other capabilities to deliver munitions to ground targets. They need to be escorted by highly maneuverable and highly combat-effective fighters.

    Even though obsolete by modern standards, my favorite will always be the F-14 Tomcat.
     
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