F-22 may live on: Cheap secondhand Eurofighters on offer

Discussion in 'Military' started by JBeukema, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. JBeukema
    Offline

    JBeukema BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    25,613
    Thanks Received:
    1,703
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    everywhere and nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,705
  2. Xenophon
    Offline

    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,705
    Thanks Received:
    3,750
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    In your head
    Ratings:
    +3,751
    This is one of those subjects we never seem to learn from.

    We went into WWII with inferior fighters to save money, and it cost us in lives.

    It happened again in Korea.

    Then once more in Vietnam.

    Since then we have not seen real opposition in the air, but the fact remains the Eagle fleet in nearly 40 years old and needs to be fully replaced, the F-22 is the plane for the job, the F-35 is far inferior.
     
  3. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    Earlier today, the Nikkei reported that US Defense Secretary Robert Gates recommended that the F-35 fighter jet become Japan’s next generation mainstay to Japanese Defense Minister Yasukazu Hamada when the two met earlier this month at the Pentagon. It seems as though Gates is looking at ending production of the higher-end F-22, and thus wants to see the F-35 replace Japan’s aging fleet of F-4EJs.

    Japan is currently considering adopting the F-22, F/A-18, F-15FX, F-35, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Rafale. Of this group, only the F-22 and F-35 are stealth fighters, and I can’t see the point in buying F-18s when Japan has no offensive carriers. Likewise, the F-15 is scheduled to go out of commission around 2025; it’s a bit late to be buying more of them. Edit: See LB’s note in the comments about the F-15.
    So much for the F-22 in Japan: Gates says the F-35 is good enough Japan Economy News & Blog - Business, Economy, Real Estate, Marketing and Economic Reports

    The F-22 design and the F-35 Design were meant to compliment one another and the F-35 was never meant as a pure air to air fighter. The lessons learned on the F-4 Phantom were obviously not learned by Mr. Gates and he continues this notion of cheap is best and you can get by with what you have. Which has led to things like a 45 year old Tanker program and a billion dollar Presidential Helicopter that has been cancelled after billions have been spent. Personally, I do hope that the F-22 lives on as an export product for nations like Japan or Aus. It's design and performance is far surperior than anything in the air and remains this nations only 5th generation fighter.
     
  4. Xenophon
    Offline

    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,705
    Thanks Received:
    3,750
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    In your head
    Ratings:
    +3,751
    Japan has had F-15s since the 80s, an improved version would provide familarity to pilots and crews and possibly be compatible with spares.

    The F-18 is multi-role, Japan understands it needs more then just interceptors, it needs possible ground and sea attack, the Super Hornet provides this.
     
  5. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    TOKYO —
    Defense Minister Yasukazu Hamada reiterated his hope Tuesday for acquiring the U.S. F-22 stealth fighter jet as Japan’s next mainstay striker despite a recommendation by his U.S. counterpart to procure the less stealthy F-35 instead. ‘‘We are still seeking the possibility of acquiring the F-22, but if that does not work out, we will have to consider not just the F-35 but others as options,’’ Hamada said. ‘‘As of today, we still want to seek the F-22.’’

    Japan still hopes for F-22 fighter despite U.S. recommendation of F-35 › Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

    I don't want to be contrary on this issue but the F-15 is hardly a multi-role fighter when compared to the F-35 or F-18, it is an air superiority fighter much in the same class as the F-22 except the F15 is outmatched in every catagory by the F-22. The need for Japan to fly multi-role missions when compared to classic air superiority missions is very clear. Further, the F-22 does have the capabilites to fly multi-role missions.

    The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is a fifth-generation fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It is primarily an air superiority fighter, but has multiple capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence roles. Lockheed Martin Aeronautics is the prime contractor and is responsible for the majority of the airframe, weapon systems and final assembly of the F-22. Program partner Boeing Integrated Defense Systems provides the wings, aft fuselage, avionics integration, and all of the pilot and maintenance training systems.

    The problem with the F-22 is two-fold, one is cost and the other is an export restriction. The cost of the fighter is high because in order to build an export version, LM would have to factor in the costs of restarting the the line unless congress authorizes more F-22's in the 2010 budget. The other thing that is blocking the sale of F-22's is an export restriction on this aircraft imposed by congress.
     
  6. Xenophon
    Offline

    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,705
    Thanks Received:
    3,750
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    In your head
    Ratings:
    +3,751
    Depends on the Eagle version, the F-15E was dedicated to ground attack not air superiority.

    All of them are old and out classed now, the plane was designed 40+ years ago.
     
  7. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    Thats true on the F-15E and the the F-15's were even grounded a while back, you won't get me to disagree with you on the age issue. The "Strike Eagle" is a dedicated all weather interdiction aircraft. I was under the impression that Japan was only flying a license built version called the J which performance wise is much like the C/D, which is a air superiority aircraft.


    AIRFIGHTERS.COM - Japan Air Force McDonnell Douglas F-15J Eagle
     
  8. sitarro
    Offline

    sitarro Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    5,186
    Thanks Received:
    999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    USA
    Ratings:
    +1,001
    "The Raptor cutoff is now officially endorsed by General "Norty" Schwarz, the former transport pilot now in the top USAF job."

    This sentence says a lot, a former MAC pilot making TAC decisions. What would an autopilot General know about real flying? How many C-17s does he want instead?

    The F-22 is a truly superior fighter. Our worst fighter pilot with a hangover and needing to piss would destroy that Euro trash fighter blindfolded. :lol:
     
  9. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The final version of the U.S. war funding bill working its way through Congress is expected to include eight Boeing Co C-17 military transport planes, a congressional aide said on Tuesday.

    The House of Representatives approved its version of the bill that included money for the aircraft, while the Senate version did not include funding for any of them.
    U.S. war funding bill to include C-17s | Politics | Reuters

    That should answer your question sitarro, in fact the inclusion of more C-17's in the bill brought the ire of John McCain down on the Senate floor when he pointed out the over capacity in Air Transport Commands inventory of C-17's and C130's and the lack of purchasing for needed systems. He also called into question the purchasing system at DoD that seems to reward political matters rather than the Military needs. Which I am in total agreement with.
     

Share This Page