F-22 fails in Syria, pilots say


I have read the article, bullwinkle. And it just means the Russians are doing what they always do even in Alaska. This is a cat and mouse game and has been going on since the 1950s for both sides. The start to enter, we respond in kind. Both sides stare each other waiting for the other blink. And then the bird that is being intrusive heads back into it's own area. Nothing new here. Nothing to see, nothing to report.

Just a bit of information from Experience. I was onboard a C-130D that just came off the Cap. This was before the Nav Sats were available. When you enter into the Caps, your instrumentation gets all squirrely. You have to come out of it, check your position and then get back on your side of the line. Temporary, we had a Mig-25 escort. He flew in, stated that we were going to do a complete 180 and exit the airspace. He stayed on our wingtip (slightly trailing) until F-4s out of Elmendorf got there and he peeled off and went home. He was not courteous and just stated the facts. Of course, his finger was hovering over the launch button at the time.
The problem is that the F-22 get surprised. How is that possible?

The SU ANYTHING
This one?

th

Not much difference. This was not carried forward after WWII ended.
They were no longer required. Only the Germans could match up with the Russian tank force.
 
There is no US space in Syria.

They call it Deescalation Areas. This was setup to prevent Green on Green encounters by the US, Russia and Turkey. So far, there has only been one intrusion where a Russian Attack Plane attacked friendly forces in the US area. It was promptly shot down.
The problem is that the article says something else.

And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You must sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.
 
They call it Deescalation Areas. This was setup to prevent Green on Green encounters by the US, Russia and Turkey. So far, there has only been one intrusion where a Russian Attack Plane attacked friendly forces in the US area. It was promptly shot down.
The problem is that the article says something else.

And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You must sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.

The title doesn't prove a thing. Now, stop this nonsense, Comrade and post the article for everyone to see. I don't give a crap about logging in since my information is out there way too much already. But you seem to take just the title and read entire volumes into it. You made the claim. It's up to you to provide such a site that everyone has access to.

It's judgment day and it's time for a FACT Check.
 
They call it Deescalation Areas. This was setup to prevent Green on Green encounters by the US, Russia and Turkey. So far, there has only been one intrusion where a Russian Attack Plane attacked friendly forces in the US area. It was promptly shot down.
The problem is that the article says something else.

And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You must sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.

I've known about the "Article" for quite some time. What it does is tell just how important the F-22 really is. And how reckless the Russians are. Basically, the F-22 is very much aware of the Russians at all times. He is monitoring the Deescalation line between the two forces. By agreement, you are not to enter the other guys area to prevent Green on Green problems. The Russians fly right on the line and sometimes cross. The F-22 will contact the Command and control when this happens allowing the Gen 3 and 4 Aircraft to exit the area. It also gives the ground troops (friendlies) the heads up as well. The Russians are wise enough to disengage at that point. The Syrians have since learned that this is a wise action after losing the SU-24 to a single F-15. The Iranians have also been shown the error of their ways with it's drone attack.

There are no instances where what you claim ever happened by either side. Both sides heavily monitor the Deescalation line. When you are on that line, you are under, not only radar, but visual as well.

Your fake news is noted, comrade.
 
The problem is that the article says something else.

And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You must sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.

The title doesn't prove a thing. Now, stop this nonsense, Comrade and post the article for everyone to see. I don't give a crap about logging in since my information is out there way too much already. But you seem to take just the title and read entire volumes into it. You made the claim. It's up to you to provide such a site that everyone has access to.

It's judgment day and it's time for a FACT Check.
You know, neither law nor USMB allow to post entire articles. I already have posted the most important part for our discussion in post #51. But I am innocently posting a screenshot only.

screenshot-2017-11-249hblx.jpg
 
And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You must sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.

The title doesn't prove a thing. Now, stop this nonsense, Comrade and post the article for everyone to see. I don't give a crap about logging in since my information is out there way too much already. But you seem to take just the title and read entire volumes into it. You made the claim. It's up to you to provide such a site that everyone has access to.

It's judgment day and it's time for a FACT Check.
You know, neither law nor USMB allow to post entire articles. I already have posted the most important part for our discussion in post #51. But I am innocently posting a screenshot only.

screenshot-2017-11-249hblx.jpg

One small problem. It doesn't say what you claim it does. No one is sneeking up on anyone on either side. The Russians and the US (among others) want to stay visible. Trying to sneek in is one way to get yourself blown to kingdom come. I believe the F-15E does a better job at this than the F-22 since the F-15 wants to be seen with it's superior radar and bristling weapons. If the Russians were crossing that line and actually do an attack on friendlies then they will get treated exactly like the Syrian SU-24 and the Iranian armed drone. And the US Pilots don't have to call home first. Then the CO can pick up that phone directly linked to the Russian Counterparts and will get ironed out. With Russian Weak forces, the last thing they want to do is attack the Eagle which is much stronger. And it looks like the US is pretty much there to stay. Now, don't that chap yer drawers.

Now, get glasses, attend a remedial reading class or see a therapist. And stop lying out your ass. US, in America, already know you Russains will lie about anything when you think you might benefit. We are on to you, Comrade.
 

No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.

The title doesn't prove a thing. Now, stop this nonsense, Comrade and post the article for everyone to see. I don't give a crap about logging in since my information is out there way too much already. But you seem to take just the title and read entire volumes into it. You made the claim. It's up to you to provide such a site that everyone has access to.

It's judgment day and it's time for a FACT Check.
You know, neither law nor USMB allow to post entire articles. I already have posted the most important part for our discussion in post #51. But I am innocently posting a screenshot only.

screenshot-2017-11-249hblx.jpg

One small problem. It doesn't say what you claim it does. No one is sneeking up on anyone on either side. The Russians and the US (among others) want to stay visible. Trying to sneek in is one way to get yourself blown to kingdom come. I believe the F-15E does a better job at this than the F-22 since the F-15 wants to be seen with it's superior radar and bristling weapons. If the Russians were crossing that line and actually do an attack on friendlies then they will get treated exactly like the Syrian SU-24 and the Iranian armed drone. And the US Pilots don't have to call home first. Then the CO can pick up that phone directly linked to the Russian Counterparts and will get ironed out. With Russian Weak forces, the last thing they want to do is attack the Eagle which is much stronger. And it looks like the US is pretty much there to stay. Now, don't that chap yer drawers.

Now, get glasses, attend a remedial reading class or see a therapist. And stop lying out your ass. US, in America, already know you Russains will lie about anything when you think you might benefit. We are on to you, Comrade.
You are only posting your usual stuff. A single Su-35 downs down 8 F-22 or other planes at a time.
 
No- the title can mean all sorts of things.

IF you actually read the article- why haven't you quoted from the article?

What possible reason can you have for this entire thread- where you refuse to quote the actual language of the article?
Hunt claimed the incidents are not even happening and the title proves the opposite. If you want to read the article, sign up and read it for free as stated before.

The title doesn't prove a thing. Now, stop this nonsense, Comrade and post the article for everyone to see. I don't give a crap about logging in since my information is out there way too much already. But you seem to take just the title and read entire volumes into it. You made the claim. It's up to you to provide such a site that everyone has access to.

It's judgment day and it's time for a FACT Check.
You know, neither law nor USMB allow to post entire articles. I already have posted the most important part for our discussion in post #51. But I am innocently posting a screenshot only.

screenshot-2017-11-249hblx.jpg

One small problem. It doesn't say what you claim it does. No one is sneeking up on anyone on either side. The Russians and the US (among others) want to stay visible. Trying to sneek in is one way to get yourself blown to kingdom come. I believe the F-15E does a better job at this than the F-22 since the F-15 wants to be seen with it's superior radar and bristling weapons. If the Russians were crossing that line and actually do an attack on friendlies then they will get treated exactly like the Syrian SU-24 and the Iranian armed drone. And the US Pilots don't have to call home first. Then the CO can pick up that phone directly linked to the Russian Counterparts and will get ironed out. With Russian Weak forces, the last thing they want to do is attack the Eagle which is much stronger. And it looks like the US is pretty much there to stay. Now, don't that chap yer drawers.

Now, get glasses, attend a remedial reading class or see a therapist. And stop lying out your ass. US, in America, already know you Russains will lie about anything when you think you might benefit. We are on to you, Comrade.
You are only posting your usual stuff. A single Su-35 downs down 8 F-22 or other planes at a time.

A single SU-35, right. Does it carry 16 missiles of each kind? They are fired in pairs. That means that 8 F-22s per SU-35 if the missile pairs do the job. And you had better have one hell of a lot more SU-35s since the F-15 will be getting on things as well at a range that you can't do anything except dodge and duck.

You are going to take your paltry handful and have to take on hundreds. Keep that magic want wound tight.

Idjit
 
They call it Deescalation Areas. This was setup to prevent Green on Green encounters by the US, Russia and Turkey. So far, there has only been one intrusion where a Russian Attack Plane attacked friendly forces in the US area. It was promptly shot down.
The problem is that the article says something else.

And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You mist sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

I have read the article, bullwinkle. And it just means the Russians are doing what they always do even in Alaska. This is a cat and mouse game and has been going on since the 1950s for both sides. The start to enter, we respond in kind. Both sides stare each other waiting for the other blink. And then the bird that is being intrusive heads back into it's own area. Nothing new here. Nothing to see, nothing to report.

Just a bit of information from Experience. I was onboard a C-130D that just came off the Cap. This was before the Nav Sats were available. When you enter into the Caps, your instrumentation gets all squirrely. You have to come out of it, check your position and then get back on your side of the line. Temporary, we had a Mig-25 escort. He flew in, stated that we were going to do a complete 180 and exit the airspace. He stayed on our wingtip (slightly trailing) until F-4s out of Elmendorf got there and he peeled off and went home. He was not courteous and just stated the facts. Of course, his finger was hovering over the launch button at the time.
The problem is that the F-22 get surprised. How is that possible?

i imagine its possible because the reason F-22's are in Syria in the first place has something to do with the powerful radars the Russians are using to monitor Syrian air space... specifically the S-400 and S-300 complexes. Russian SAM's have the ability to deny American 4th gen aircraft freedom over Syrian sky's. so the USAF has sent its best to find out exactly what the Russians can and can't do. these Russian radar's then cue with SU-30's and 35's to intercept. it would seem that the Russians have found a way to defeat stealth aircraft too.
 
The problem is that the article says something else.

And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You mist sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

I have read the article, bullwinkle. And it just means the Russians are doing what they always do even in Alaska. This is a cat and mouse game and has been going on since the 1950s for both sides. The start to enter, we respond in kind. Both sides stare each other waiting for the other blink. And then the bird that is being intrusive heads back into it's own area. Nothing new here. Nothing to see, nothing to report.

Just a bit of information from Experience. I was onboard a C-130D that just came off the Cap. This was before the Nav Sats were available. When you enter into the Caps, your instrumentation gets all squirrely. You have to come out of it, check your position and then get back on your side of the line. Temporary, we had a Mig-25 escort. He flew in, stated that we were going to do a complete 180 and exit the airspace. He stayed on our wingtip (slightly trailing) until F-4s out of Elmendorf got there and he peeled off and went home. He was not courteous and just stated the facts. Of course, his finger was hovering over the launch button at the time.
The problem is that the F-22 get surprised. How is that possible?

i imagine its possible because the reason F-22's are in Syria in the first place has something to do with the powerful radars the Russians are using to monitor Syrian air space... specifically the S-400 and S-300 complexes. Russian SAM's have the ability to deny American 4th gen aircraft freedom over Syrian sky's. so the USAF has sent its best to find out exactly what the Russians can and can't do. these Russian radar's then cue with SU-30's and 35's to intercept. it would seem that the Russians have found a way to defeat stealth aircraft too.

It's not just the F-22. The SUs would also be faced with a more numerous F-15C and E. The F-15 can fly with the SUs all day long. They just have to keep it up near transonic (450KTS or higher). It's not hard to do. If the SU doesn't play that game he gets shot down. With the F-22 lurking then the SUs have something more to worry about. I doubt if a shooting war between the Russians and the US will happen there. If it does, the F-35s get flown in for the SAs which have zero defense against the F-35. Even the Buff can easily take out a SA site with it's new weapons payload without coming into the LOCK distance. It starts out with a 100 mile shooting match. Guess which AF is best at that range?
 
And exactly what does it say? We need a good cite on this one. Not a single paragraph taken from another article. It's fun time. It's Fact Check time.

BTW, the F-22 sees the SU just fine. It just can't automatically relay that information without using voice on the radio. The F-22 predates Link 16 and only receives and not relays. The F-35 has link 16 built in to send and relay. The F-15, F-16 and F-18 uses an external pod. The F-22 does not get snuck up on and the entire article goes into the Link 16 on the F-22. It doesn't say a thing about a SU mysteriously showing up on the F-22. The Link 16 has grown into a great system. But the F-22 was built with it was only thought for the F-22 to receive and not send. That is being addressed at this time. There is a new Software package that is being readied for the F-22 to put it on the same page.

Now, let's get the fact check done. Give a complete site. You know, one where none of us have to "Read Between the Lines".
You mist sign up. But the title is enough:

"Russian Fighters Test U.S. Boundaries In Skies Over Syria"

I have read the article, bullwinkle. And it just means the Russians are doing what they always do even in Alaska. This is a cat and mouse game and has been going on since the 1950s for both sides. The start to enter, we respond in kind. Both sides stare each other waiting for the other blink. And then the bird that is being intrusive heads back into it's own area. Nothing new here. Nothing to see, nothing to report.

Just a bit of information from Experience. I was onboard a C-130D that just came off the Cap. This was before the Nav Sats were available. When you enter into the Caps, your instrumentation gets all squirrely. You have to come out of it, check your position and then get back on your side of the line. Temporary, we had a Mig-25 escort. He flew in, stated that we were going to do a complete 180 and exit the airspace. He stayed on our wingtip (slightly trailing) until F-4s out of Elmendorf got there and he peeled off and went home. He was not courteous and just stated the facts. Of course, his finger was hovering over the launch button at the time.
The problem is that the F-22 get surprised. How is that possible?

i imagine its possible because the reason F-22's are in Syria in the first place has something to do with the powerful radars the Russians are using to monitor Syrian air space... specifically the S-400 and S-300 complexes. Russian SAM's have the ability to deny American 4th gen aircraft freedom over Syrian sky's. so the USAF has sent its best to find out exactly what the Russians can and can't do. these Russian radar's then cue with SU-30's and 35's to intercept. it would seem that the Russians have found a way to defeat stealth aircraft too.

It's not just the F-22. The SUs would also be faced with a more numerous F-15C and E. The F-15 can fly with the SUs all day long. They just have to keep it up near transonic (450KTS or higher). It's not hard to do. If the SU doesn't play that game he gets shot down. With the F-22 lurking then the SUs have something more to worry about. I doubt if a shooting war between the Russians and the US will happen there. If it does, the F-35s get flown in for the SAs which have zero defense against the F-35. Even the Buff can easily take out a SA site with it's new weapons payload without coming into the LOCK distance. It starts out with a 100 mile shooting match. Guess which AF is best at that range?

luckily cool heads on both sides have avoided such a confrontation. Russian SAM's are there to claim ownership of Syria and American fighters are there to make sure that its foreign policy objectives (namely the Kurds) are not messed with. Its definitely an interesting conflict that resembles more a cold war than a civil one. America had every opportunity, prior to the Russians arriving, to do the same as the Russians but they passed. so i think that there is an agreement in place to co-habitate in Syria whilst denying other regional powers a direct say.

could Russian SAM's eliminate American air power over Syria? i doubt they could. but its hard to assume that American fighters would be safe over Syria, too. in any event, hypothetically, a U.S. strike on Russian SAM's would be cruise missile based. so could the pansir and S complexes be able to cope with that? yes i believe they would. would Russia need to destroy all America fighters in the region to protect Syria? no they wouldn't. they just need to get their message across and up the stakes to nuclear stand off.

as far as a one on combat between Russian and American fighters. i'd take America to win. without SAM monitoring i don't think Russian fighters are not up to the task and thats why they have the S-400 and other SAM's on the ground. the Russians are out numbered and out gunned. even without American involvement Turkish and Israeli air forces would make a meal out of the token Russian fighter numbers. the S-300/400/ pansies are force multipliers and thats where the real power of Russia's Syrian deployment lies.

F-22. Russian radars on the SU-35's are newer than than the F-22 and geared towards the more advanced F-35. so i wouldn't assume that the SU-35 is flying blind. the Serbian shoot down of the F-117 should set off cautious bells. don't know enough of what you mean by trans-sonic other than its impossible to think that Russia hasn't taken any American technological advantages into consideration in developing fighters and their war fighting doctrines.
 

I have read the article, bullwinkle. And it just means the Russians are doing what they always do even in Alaska. This is a cat and mouse game and has been going on since the 1950s for both sides. The start to enter, we respond in kind. Both sides stare each other waiting for the other blink. And then the bird that is being intrusive heads back into it's own area. Nothing new here. Nothing to see, nothing to report.

Just a bit of information from Experience. I was onboard a C-130D that just came off the Cap. This was before the Nav Sats were available. When you enter into the Caps, your instrumentation gets all squirrely. You have to come out of it, check your position and then get back on your side of the line. Temporary, we had a Mig-25 escort. He flew in, stated that we were going to do a complete 180 and exit the airspace. He stayed on our wingtip (slightly trailing) until F-4s out of Elmendorf got there and he peeled off and went home. He was not courteous and just stated the facts. Of course, his finger was hovering over the launch button at the time.
The problem is that the F-22 get surprised. How is that possible?

i imagine its possible because the reason F-22's are in Syria in the first place has something to do with the powerful radars the Russians are using to monitor Syrian air space... specifically the S-400 and S-300 complexes. Russian SAM's have the ability to deny American 4th gen aircraft freedom over Syrian sky's. so the USAF has sent its best to find out exactly what the Russians can and can't do. these Russian radar's then cue with SU-30's and 35's to intercept. it would seem that the Russians have found a way to defeat stealth aircraft too.

It's not just the F-22. The SUs would also be faced with a more numerous F-15C and E. The F-15 can fly with the SUs all day long. They just have to keep it up near transonic (450KTS or higher). It's not hard to do. If the SU doesn't play that game he gets shot down. With the F-22 lurking then the SUs have something more to worry about. I doubt if a shooting war between the Russians and the US will happen there. If it does, the F-35s get flown in for the SAs which have zero defense against the F-35. Even the Buff can easily take out a SA site with it's new weapons payload without coming into the LOCK distance. It starts out with a 100 mile shooting match. Guess which AF is best at that range?

luckily cool heads on both sides have avoided such a confrontation. Russian SAM's are there to claim ownership of Syria and American fighters are there to make sure that its foreign policy objectives (namely the Kurds) are not messed with. Its definitely an interesting conflict that resembles more a cold war than a civil one. America had every opportunity, prior to the Russians arriving, to do the same as the Russians but they passed. so i think that there is an agreement in place to co-habitate in Syria whilst denying other regional powers a direct say.

could Russian SAM's eliminate American air power over Syria? i doubt they could. but its hard to assume that American fighters would be safe over Syria, too. in any event, hypothetically, a U.S. strike on Russian SAM's would be cruise missile based. so could the pansir and S complexes be able to cope with that? yes i believe they would. would Russia need to destroy all America fighters in the region to protect Syria? no they wouldn't. they just need to get their message across and up the stakes to nuclear stand off.

as far as a one on combat between Russian and American fighters. i'd take America to win. without SAM monitoring i don't think Russian fighters are not up to the task and thats why they have the S-400 and other SAM's on the ground. the Russians are out numbered and out gunned. even without American involvement Turkish and Israeli air forces would make a meal out of the token Russian fighter numbers. the S-300/400/ pansies are force multipliers and thats where the real power of Russia's Syrian deployment lies.

F-22. Russian radars on the SU-35's are newer than than the F-22 and geared towards the more advanced F-35. so i wouldn't assume that the SU-35 is flying blind. the Serbian shoot down of the F-117 should set off cautious bells. don't know enough of what you mean by trans-sonic other than its impossible to think that Russia hasn't taken any American technological advantages into consideration in developing fighters and their war fighting doctrines.

Military Leaders are always cooler and less prone to do stupid stuff than Politicos. And that is on both sides.

The SA400 will deter some of the Gen 4 fighters and bombers until the buffs show up, the F-15Es rearm. The A to Ground weapons far out distance the radar ground weapons. Not all AS will get through but enough to silence the SA400s. Of course, an air war will be going on the same time and this is where the Russians are very weak. The SU-30s and SU-35s can take on the F-15s heads up but the numbers won't be favorable for the Russians. The Syrians should stay on the ground as much as possible. If Iran gets into it, Israel goes for it as well and I would look for a couple or three Saudi Birds to be in the mix. Since both sides would be flying mixed birds, it could get dicey real fast and have green on green shootdowns. I doubt if the US and Russia would EVER let it go that way. It's a good way to reduce both the US and Russians to 3rd world Air Forces fast.

The F-22 does have more modern radar than either of the SUs. The Russians are still playing catchup. The F-22 is in the process of being upgraded to the F-35 type radar and coding. Okay, not quite as good but the Array on the F-22 is larger and longer distance than the F-35. About the time the Russians almost catch up, the US pulls ahead again. Not with the Aircraft but with the sub systems. In 2 or three years, the F-35 and the F-22 gets a new system. They start carrying Lasers. And look for the F-15 to get the same treatment. At that point, ALL other fighters are just targets. The Russians would like this as well but it takes a HUGE engine to power the Laser and enough internal space to carry it. If Russia is going to do something, they need to do it now before the upgrades happen. Otherwise, their ground and air assets just become targets. But I don't see that happening.

IN order to get the benefit of thrust vectoring for the SU-35, it needs to be going much slower than 450kts. Meanwhile, the F-15 and F-22 are optimized to combat at above 450kts but below the speed of sound. The 15/22 pick the fight, decide when, where and how it goes. The poor SU-35 has to stay and fight and win. It can't run. The SU-35 ends up not better than the SU-30. Now, don't get me wrong, the SU-30 (being an upgrade from the SU-27) is as good as anything outside of the F-22. The SU-27 has a pretty impressive combat record. The only reason it's not held in the same awe as the F-15 is that it hasn't had the opportunity as much. To both of these birds, a Mig-29 is just a target.
 
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Why annoy Russian planes fighting ISIS? And what does it say about capabilities?

The Russians aren't there to attack the terrorists. They are there to test the US defenses. What is happening is, USAF is also getting a pretty good picture themselves.
 
Why annoy Russian planes fighting ISIS? And what does it say about capabilities?

The Russians aren't there to attack the terrorists. They are there to test the US defenses. What is happening is, USAF is also getting a pretty good picture themselves.
ISIS and this propaganda have the same source. Don´t buy into it and be happy that Bashar and Vlad defeat terrorism in Syria. Russia is NOT testing US defenses using Su 24 and 25 ground attack aircraft, give it a thought.

2017 Summary of the ISIS-Coalition not fighting ISIS
 
Why annoy Russian planes fighting ISIS? And what does it say about capabilities?

The Russians aren't there to attack the terrorists. They are there to test the US defenses. What is happening is, USAF is also getting a pretty good picture themselves.
ISIS and this propaganda have the same source. Don´t buy into it and be happy that Bashar and Vlad defeat terrorism in Syria. Russia is NOT testing US defenses using Su 24 and 25 ground attack aircraft, give it a thought.

2017 Summary of the ISIS-Coalition not fighting ISIS

The Russians (and the USSR) do this at all their borders and even places that aren't their border. It's a game, nothing more. If anyone were to shoot in ernest at any of these engagements then WWIII would have happened decades ago. How close can they get a Russian Bear to continental US, how close can they get fighters to Norway and more. This gives them a picture of what could have been. The only thing I think that is strange is that the US is using the F-22 when a F-15 loaded to the teeth would be a better weapon for interception. But the reason for that might be, the F-22 is also gathering data about the situation itself.
 
Why annoy Russian planes fighting ISIS? And what does it say about capabilities?

The Russians aren't there to attack the terrorists. They are there to test the US defenses. What is happening is, USAF is also getting a pretty good picture themselves.
ISIS and this propaganda have the same source. Don´t buy into it and be happy that Bashar and Vlad defeat terrorism in Syria. Russia is NOT testing US defenses using Su 24 and 25 ground attack aircraft, give it a thought.

2017 Summary of the ISIS-Coalition not fighting ISIS

The Russians (and the USSR) do this at all their borders and even places that aren't their border. It's a game, nothing more. If anyone were to shoot in ernest at any of these engagements then WWIII would have happened decades ago. How close can they get a Russian Bear to continental US, how close can they get fighters to Norway and more. This gives them a picture of what could have been. The only thing I think that is strange is that the US is using the F-22 when a F-15 loaded to the teeth would be a better weapon for interception. But the reason for that might be, the F-22 is also gathering data about the situation itself.
Russia did neither become suddenly an ally of Syria nor did it suddenly appear to support Syria. In addition, Russia always invited the US to join the campaign but the US always refused although initially agreed. When Russia started the active campaign in 2015, the Coalition was not active in the regions Russia started to support the Syrian troops. When Syrian troops were on the offensive to retake Palmyra, thousands of terrorists ("rebels") entered Syria from Turkey and captured Idlib, the capital of Idlib, where the government still ruled and maintained a supply line to. At this time, the upcoming active support by Russia and Iran was already in the making. Russian then would bomb the terrorist infrastructure and provide CAS to the Syrian forces, while Iran sent militiamen that would then protect the ground the army retakes.
The air support by the Coalition for their forces is nothing compared to the Russian campaign. A tiny fraction of the airstrikes the Russians conducted.
 

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