Exxon/Mobil Paid No Federal Income Tax in 2009

[Toro]

i'm stunned.











seriously

I'm not.

The CBO released a report a few years ago concluding that a third of all large corporations in America paid no taxes in ten years.

Also, the effective tax rate for large corporations in America is, or at least was, 6%.

Really? Then post the numbers. Where are they?

Fact is, though our tax laws include statutory rates that are fairly high (35% for corporations earning about $18 million or more annually) but generally in the same ballpark as those of other developed western nations, the actual tax rates paid by US corporations are extraordinarily low, around 6%. Remember the latest GAO report (reported elsewhere on ataxingmatter) that shows that two-thirds of US corporations pay no federal income tax. That's not just the ones that are losing money, but also many corporations that have record high profits (including some Big Oil companies) that end up paying next to nothing in taxes.

ataxingmatter: Tax Foundation and Competitive Environments: more bunk!

I'm sorry, it was the GAO.

 

[Toro]

Exxon paid $36.5B in income taxes in 2009. Isn't that enough?

How do you know that?

Charges for income taxes on an income statement filed to the SEC is not necessarily representative of what they actually paid.

You might be right, I don't know, but what a publicly-traded company pays in actual cash taxes is very different from the taxes charged on the income statement.

Really?

Your WORDS:

The CBO released a report a few years ago concluding that a third of all large corporations in America paid no taxes in ten years.

OK...and in the NEXT Sentence you stated this jewel:

Also, the effective tax rate for large corporations in America is, or at least was, 6%.

Either they pay...or they do not. Which is it?

Seems to me that they'd be in court and out of business.

So tell us? WHICH is the truth?

I'd say YOU were rather conflicted.

I'd say you have a problem with comprehension of mathematics. The effective tax rate is for a population. A population will have companies with varying degrees of tax liabilities.

 

[Immanuel]

Of course they didn't. What would make it different than any other year... From 2008:

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

 

[The T]

Of course they didn't. What would make it different than any other year... From 2008:

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Immie? That's exactly what they've done. Exxon/Mobile pays HUGE Taxes in the cost of doing business. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't looking deep enough.

 

[MarcATL]

God Bless The Corporations!

Isn't that right Neo-Cons?

Fuck Off Statist jerk. Without the corporations? This economy means ZERO. YOU need a history lesson.

Go blow it out your ass you stinking Anarchist son-of-bitch!

Why don't you move to Capitalist China then?

 

[MarcATL]

God Bless The Corporations!

Isn't that right Neo-Cons?

I'd rather have Greedy Corporations than Greedy Government.

Then you are a damn FOOL!!

Corporation DO NOT care about you or anything or anyone else...they are NOT people...they only care about its own GROWTH...ALL ELSE BE DAMNED.

Do. You. Understand. What. That. Means?

Why don't you stop spouting your NUT-WING BS and get a clue for once in your life man.

Sheeesh!!

 

[Toro]

Of course they didn't. What would make it different than any other year... From 2008:

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Corporations are not going to The Bahamas to buy stuff. They are funneling income through offshore entities to avoid taxes. That's all they are doing.

Generally, lower corporate taxes are better, and it is rational for companies to seek to pay the lowest amount possible in taxes. However, corporations are not paying taxes to foreign governments when taxes in those jurisdictions are effectively zero.

 

[Immanuel]

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Immie? That's exactly what they've done. Exxon/Mobile pays HUGE Taxes in the cost of doing business. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't looking deep enough.

And what I am saying is that if Congress didn't make it so expensive to do business in the U.S. fewer companies would seek domicile in other lands.

If you have a vending machine selling soda for $2 a can and right next to your machine someone puts another machine in selling soda for $1.5, which machine do you think thirsty customers are going to empty first?

Same principal applies here. If I can pay less in taxes by domiciling my corporation in The Bahamas then you can bet that is what I am going to do.

Immie

 

[The T]

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Immie? That's exactly what they've done. Exxon/Mobile pays HUGE Taxes in the cost of doing business. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't looking deep enough.

And what I am saying is that if Congress didn't make it so expensive to do business in the U.S. fewer companies would seek domicile in other lands.

If you have a vending machine selling soda for $2 a can and right next to your machine someone puts another machine in selling soda for $1.5, which machine do you think thirsty customers are going to empty first?

Same principal applies here. If I can pay less in taxes by domiciling my corporation in The Bahamas then you can bet that is what I am going to do.

Immie

And many on this board have the friggin' Audacity to demonize them for going to where it's more business friendly to protect their investments, and that of their investors that just might be invested via a 401K, or similiar?

Yeah compassionate these bastages are. All they are 'invested ' in is control over others.

 

[The T]

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Corporations are not going to The Bahamas to buy stuff. They are funneling income through offshore entities to avoid taxes. That's all they are doing.

Generally, lower corporate taxes are better, and it is rational for companies to seek to pay the lowest amount possible in taxes. However, corporations are not paying taxes to foreign governments when taxes in those jurisdictions are effectively zero.

And this is bad HOW? Can you blame them for protecting themselves from a Government that means to TAX them out of existence?

 

[Immanuel]

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Corporations are not going to The Bahamas to buy stuff. They are funneling income through offshore entities to avoid taxes. That's all they are doing.

Generally, lower corporate taxes are better, and it is rational for companies to seek to pay the lowest amount possible in taxes. However, corporations are not paying taxes to foreign governments when taxes in those jurisdictions are effectively zero.

Exactly my point!

The Bahamas make it worth while for these corporations to go elsewhere.

Would you have preferred it if my example had said that the new machine gave sodas away for free?

I'm not saying that we should not tax these companies. What I am saying is that we have priced ourselves out of the market. If we don't want corporations running to other countries then we have to bring our prices (tax rates) down to a point that makes it more cost effective to do business here than elsewhere. If we don't these companies are going to go somewhere else. I don't blame them, but it would sure be nice if more of those tax dollars came into the good ole U S of A than were sheltered on foreign soil.

That's all I'm saying.

Immie

 

[Tom Clancy]

God Bless The Corporations!

Isn't that right Neo-Cons?

I'd rather have Greedy Corporations than Greedy Government.

Then you are a damn FOOL!!

Corporation DO NOT care about you or anything or anyone else...they are NOT people...they only care about its own GROWTH...ALL ELSE BE DAMNED.

Do. You. Understand. What. That. Means?

Why don't you stop spouting your NUT-WING BS and get a clue for once in your life man.

Sheeesh!!

And you think the Government is any better? Government only care about themselves and their "Agenda".

I spout Nut wing bs? Who woulda thunk?

Your the one here who is one sided and biased.

 

[Toro]

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Corporations are not going to The Bahamas to buy stuff. They are funneling income through offshore entities to avoid taxes. That's all they are doing.

Generally, lower corporate taxes are better, and it is rational for companies to seek to pay the lowest amount possible in taxes. However, corporations are not paying taxes to foreign governments when taxes in those jurisdictions are effectively zero.

And this is bad HOW? Can you blame them for protecting themselves from a Government that means to TAX them out of existence?

Where did I say it was bad?

All I am saying is that large corporations are taxed lightly. It is you who has misinterpreted information as being an attack on companies.

 

[MarcATL]

No Nancy, I mean Clancy...you yourself just stated "And you think the Government is any better?" indicating that you KNOW that Corporations are nothing but SCUM.

I, however, believe and KNOW that the Government IS better.

WHO is the government other than you and me and your fellow American citizens...not a bunch of old farts in a corporate dungeon somewhere thinking up new ways to bilk the good folks from their money.

What has the Big Corp done for you lately? What has Big Miner done for you lately?

 

[Avatar4321]

Of course they didn't. What would make it different than any other year... From 2008:

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

Wow. I can't imagine why. I mean it's not like we've been pointing out for years that by constantly raising taxes you lower revenues by chasing people/corporations of people who have money to places where they pay less taxes. Which, of course, is why lower taxes produce more revenues because it attracts wealthy people/corporations to the United States and they end up actually paying taxes.

But continue raising taxes. It isnt hurting Exxon or anyone else with money. It only hurts the people trying to get out of povery by working hard to make money.

 

[Avatar4321]

Good.

I wish more companies would figure out how to do the same.

Excellent, then, in return, we should deny them mineral rights in the United States, and then put a nice big tariff on any imports from their overseas production.

After all, if they're not going to pay taxes, why should they have the right to use our resources?

Yeah. That's really going to encourage them to keep investing in the United States.

 

[Avatar4321]

You economic illiterates would be amusing, if you provided any fresh material. But as all you do is burp up the same old tired bromides, you are boring.

You don't think corporations that rake in TRILLIONS on our soil have a responsibility to the citizenry in the towns, states and country in which operate and make money? Really? You are a corporatist puppet. Dance puppet, dance! I think I'd rather be boring. Oh, and please refute anything that I've stated. You're OK with shell companies and loopholes and corporate welfare to the detriment of our country so that a few already obscenely rich white guys can make another billion, right?

If the people are too stupid to govern wisely, then yes, they have no responsibility to us.

 

[Avatar4321]

Good luck running your car without any gasoline - or paying for $7+ gas if we complete destroy all domestic production.

We can always count on Green Bug-eyed Incompetents, (such as you) who are unable to compete in the free markets, to call on the Government to punish those who dare to be successful, especially when they have overcome the burdens the government has layered upon them to make the task more difficult.

Who said anything about stopping domestic production?

They'll be plenty of other folks more than willing to step into the gap.

Did American entrepreneurship suddenly disappear overnight while I wasn't looking?

Did giant Oil Conglomerates like Exxon suddenly become the only possible means of producing oil at some point?

It's not really that difficult a concept. You see actions have consequences. If you overregulate/tax/burden an industry, they go elsewhere to produce. It's not rocket science. In fact, it's rather basic economics.

So by continually arguing to punish them for being succesessful, because of the laws of nature, you are stopping domestic production.

Just because you can't figure it out, doesn't mean it's not reality.

 

[uscitizen]

God Bless The Corporations!

Isn't that right Neo-Cons?

I'd rather have Greedy Corporations than Greedy Government.

Ahh ! but now we have the worst of both worlds a greedy government ran by greedy coprorations.

 

[Avatar4321]

Plenty to step into the gap?

How and why? What is the incentive for anyone to raise capital and invest it in the very expensive and risky venture of oil exploration and development if, when they are successful, the government will abuse its power to destroy his business?

That's a bunch of crap. Exxon/Mobil has always done quite well for itself and it's investors, thank you very much.

Are you really expecting anyone to feel sorry for Exxon Mobil because they have to pay their taxes?

Really?

If they don't want to pay taxes in the United States, they shouldn't have the ability to use our resources. It's just that simple.

Naturally you dont answer the question. You just assume that since they are doing well now that they will always be there and do well. You never think through the consequences of any action. Then you get angry when your policies cause unintended consequences yo udont like because you never bother to consider what happens when your policies are enacted.