Explanation of how Illegals will be covered under HR3200

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

HR3200 and Illegal Immigrants…America BEING SNOOKERED! at Desert Conservative

Nothing illustrates America’s distrust of Congress quite like the illegal immigrant provision of the House health care bill, HR 3200.
President Obama made it the first item in his last radio address:

“I want to spend a few minutes debunking some of the more outrageous myths circulating on the Internet, on cable TV, and repeated at some town halls across this country.

“Let’s start with the false claim that illegal immigrants will get health insurance under reform. That’s not true. Illegal immigrants would not be covered.”

Obama chose his words with great care. Section 246 of the bill — dealing solely with insurance subsidies — states: “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”
Defenders of the bill frequently quote and display copies of this section at their town hall meetings.

Notice how narrow this is? It says they should not receive the bill’s new insurance subsidies. It doesn’t say they can’t receive taxpayer-paid health care. It doesn’t say they can’t receive other benefits from HR 3200, such as the expanded Medicaid.

Obama obviously wants to leave the impression that government won’t pay health care for illegals. It’s a false impression. Here are the two big fallacies with Obama’s carefully-chosen and scripted words:

There are other avenues for illegal aliens to receive health care at public expense.

All efforts to add enforcement language to HR3200 were defeated by mostly party-line votes. We can expect that the bureaucracy would look the other way under Obama’s control (just as it has with prior presidents). Current law says illegal aliens qualify only for emergency medical care through Medicaid. Most of these are childbirths. These costs exceed $3 billion a year. But because few states require proof of legal presence for regular Medicaid, nobody knows the true number of illegals who receive it, or at what cost.

The House bill not only makes a major expansion of Medicaid eligibility but also restricts (in Section 1702) inquiries about immigration status. Efforts to fix this and to add enforcement provisions to HR 3200 were offered in the Ways & Means Committee by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) and in the Energy & Commerce Committee by Rep. Nathan Deal (R-Ga.), but voted down. No Democrats supported Heller. Blue Dog Representatives Mike Ross (D-Ark.), Jim Matheson (D-Utah), Charles Melancon (D-La.), John Barrow (D-Ga.), and Baron Hill (D-Ind.) voted for the Deal proposal.

So we still have the problem as described by Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) in his op-ed for The Hill:

H.R. 3200 contains gaping loopholes that will allow illegal immigrants to receive taxpayer-funded benefits. And these loopholes are no accident. The legislation contains no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants do not apply for benefits. Republicans offered an amendment to close this loophole — it would have required verification using the existing methods that are already in place to verify eligibility for other federal benefits programs. But, when they were asked to put the language of the bill where their words were, in a party-line vote, House Democrats rejected the amendment to require verification and close this loophole.

It doesn't matter that you're using the actual language of the bill to show people the truth. There are about 30% of americans who dont care what the actual facts are, it only matters to them what obama says the facts are.

 

[JBeukema]

Consider an illegal alien with TB, fearful s/he will be arrested if s/he seeks treatment. Stupid, sure, but that is one example of why the issue of health care is too important to decide on an ideological basis. One person with an infectious disease can impact your health, or the health of your kids, wife, parents, or community.

Under my system, it would have been shot trying to climb over the fence.

Wasn't there a law passed about building a fence?

We need to militarize our southern border. If I can bring 500 pounds of illegals drugs across on my back, I can bring 500 pounds of explosives or chemical agents. Mexico if the easiest place from which terrorists could enter the border. If we don't enforce our borders, we do not exist as a sovereign entity.

American citizens should not be punished for following the law and forced to pay for those who refuse to respect our sovereignty and raid our nation like modern day marauders

 

[JBeukema]

So essantially what you're saying is that illegals will continue to get care exactly as they are now.

By showing up in the ER and forcing everybody else's insurance to pay for the visit.

Do I have this right?

Yup

Make them pay it off working in chain gangs building the border fence

 

[Ravi]

What identification is required for SSA?

You have to fill out a bunch of paper work establishing your identity...birth certificate information, social security number, marital status, etc. I'm not saying someone couldn't scam the system, but for the most part the way they do it is cost efficient.

Basically, you don't get to enroll unless you prove your identity.

and they're gonig to provide all this information at the emergency room?

No silly, it's a health insurance policy. You'd have a health insurance card to use at the emergency room.

 

[Ravi]

So essantially what you're saying is that illegals will continue to get care exactly as they are now.

By showing up in the ER and forcing everybody else's insurance to pay for the visit.

Do I have this right?

That's the way the Republicans seem to want it. And to be fair, so do most of the Dems.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Same way they do for Medicare recipients, through the SSA.

What identification is required for SSA?

You have to fill out a bunch of paper work establishing your identity...birth certificate information, social security number, marital status, etc. I'm not saying someone couldn't scam the system, but for the most part the way they do it is cost efficient.

Basically, you don't get to enroll unless you prove your identity.

That's what the Heller amendment was about, but they shot it down. The Senate Six is now trying to correct the problem, which means there was a loophole in the original language.

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/heller-6.pdf

 

[dilloduck]

You have to fill out a bunch of paper work establishing your identity...birth certificate information, social security number, marital status, etc. I'm not saying someone couldn't scam the system, but for the most part the way they do it is cost efficient.

Basically, you don't get to enroll unless you prove your identity.

and they're gonig to provide all this information at the emergency room?

No silly, it's a health insurance policy. You'd have a health insurance card to use at the emergency room.

and if you showed up at an ER without one ?

 

[Wry Catcher]

It seems to me that health care provided to illegal aliens is not directly related to any federal health care bill. Consider, emergency care is provided by hospitals which are private or funded by the Counties. Yes, the taxpayer will foot the bill in county hospitals, because once stable, the patient Treated by a private hospital emergency room is moved to the nearest county hospital.

 

[Ravi]

What identification is required for SSA?

You have to fill out a bunch of paper work establishing your identity...birth certificate information, social security number, marital status, etc. I'm not saying someone couldn't scam the system, but for the most part the way they do it is cost efficient.

Basically, you don't get to enroll unless you prove your identity.

That's what the Heller amendment was about, but they shot it down. The Senate Six is now trying to correct the problem, which means there was a loophole in the original language.

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/heller-6.pdf

No, Heller's was about using the everify program, which just adds another layer of expense. Everify isn't any more accurate that the way Medicare recipients are currently pre-approved. It seems odd to me that those who pretend to be against government spending actually are happy with more government spending.

Same thing with the so called death panels. Taking that out of the bill will result in more people being kept alive because they didn't have the opportunity to describe what kind of care they wish to receive if they go into a coma or something that results in living off of a machine. Which creates even more expense.

 

[Ravi]

and they're gonig to provide all this information at the emergency room?

No silly, it's a health insurance policy. You'd have a health insurance card to use at the emergency room.

and if you showed up at an ER without one ?

Same as now...they'd treat the patient and raise the rates to make up for the deadbeats.

 

[dilloduck]

It seems to me that health care provided to illegal aliens is not directly related to any federal health care bill. Consider, emergency care is provided by hospitals which are private or funded by the Counties. Yes, the taxpayer will foot the bill in county hospitals, because once stable, the patient Treated by a private hospital emergency room is moved to the nearest county hospital.

Indirect costs are still costs

 

[Thinman]

Consider an illegal alien with TB, fearful s/he will be arrested if s/he seeks treatment. Stupid, sure, but that is one example of why the issue of health care is too important to decide on an ideological basis. One person with an infectious disease can impact your health, or the health of your kids, wife, parents, or community.

If we don't enforce our borders, we do not exist as a sovereign entity.

True.
Would you let someone in your home without permission?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Consider an illegal alien with TB, fearful s/he will be arrested if s/he seeks treatment. Stupid, sure, but that is one example of why the issue of health care is too important to decide on an ideological basis. One person with an infectious disease can impact your health, or the health of your kids, wife, parents, or community.

If we don't enforce our borders, we do not exist as a sovereign entity.

True.
Would you let someone in your home without permission?

Better yet how would you treat someone who entered your house without permission?

Would you pay for their food, healthcare, let them stay in your house, and have your job?

anyway look at the result of the congressman yelling out Liar, he got Obama to act on it at least

The Associated Press: White House stiffens against illegal immigrants

 

[Wry Catcher]

The issue is health care, though border security is clearly related. We know that our southern border is not secure, and that much $$$ is spent on the war on drugs, and that 'war' is and has been a failure for too long.
Insanity is ... and expecting a different result. Sadly that seems to be the federal governments way, no matter which party is in power.
What does the war on drugs, illegal immigration and health care have in common? All drain our fiscal resources.
So, lets do this.
1. The feds need to remove Marijuana as a schedule I drug and allow each state to outlaw its use or decriminalize it, the state may then set the conditions to regulate its growth and distribution and set fees and taxes. The feds can also generate tax reveneue much as they do with alcohol and tobacco.
2. Heroin should also be removed from schedule I and dispensed to addicts through health clinics. IN this way many minor (and major) crimes committed to feed the addicition can be reduced, and the addict can receive health care and drug counseling along with their 'fix'.
3. A fence is a stupid idea. How about a very long canal? A big ditch from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, CA - wide enough to transport sea going ships. With proper planning such a project will provide jobs a plenty for years, and with the need for energy, spur the development of solar throughout the southwest.
At a distance of about 1,400 miles such a task is enormous (Suez is 114 miles, and the Panama is
only 50 miles, but the PC was dug in 1914).

 

[Wry Catcher]

Point number one reduces enforcement costs, court costs, probation costs and increases revenue. Point number two reduces enforcement costs too, and will help prevent the spread of STD's and possibly homelessness (chronic alcoholics remain a problem, maybe as great an economic cost as our illegal aliens - though illegal aliens do pay sales tax and may contribute to social security and medicare through the use of phony SS numbers).
Point number three. Doable? The Rio Grande goes from the Gulf of Mexico to El Paso. so about half of the task is already in place. I've driven from Tucson to San Diego, and it's mostly rolling hills or flat. The terrain between El Paso and Tucson? But, we did go to the moon, and many thought that was impossible.

 

[DiveCon]

Same way they do for Medicare recipients, through the SSA.

What identification is required for SSA?

You have to fill out a bunch of paper work establishing your identity...birth certificate information, social security number, marital status, etc. I'm not saying someone couldn't scam the system, but for the most part the way they do it is cost efficient.

Basically, you don't get to enroll unless you prove your identity.

uh, dont illegals get past that to get jobs?
why yes, yes they do

 

[DiveCon]

Consider an illegal alien with TB, fearful s/he will be arrested if s/he seeks treatment. Stupid, sure, but that is one example of why the issue of health care is too important to decide on an ideological basis. One person with an infectious disease can impact your health, or the health of your kids, wife, parents, or community.

Under my system, it would have been shot trying to climb over the fence.

Wasn't there a law passed about building a fence?

We need to militarize our southern border. If I can bring 500 pounds of illegals drugs across on my back, I can bring 500 pounds of explosives or chemical agents. Mexico if the easiest place from which terrorists could enter the border. If we don't enforce our borders, we do not exist as a sovereign entity.

American citizens should not be punished for following the law and forced to pay for those who refuse to respect our sovereignty and raid our nation like modern day marauders

yup, Duncan Hunter's bill that was passed and became law and practically ignored

 

[Political Junky]

Consider an illegal alien with TB, fearful s/he will be arrested if s/he seeks treatment. Stupid, sure, but that is one example of why the issue of health care is too important to decide on an ideological basis. One person with an infectious disease can impact your health, or the health of your kids, wife, parents, or community.

If we don't enforce our borders, we do not exist as a sovereign entity.

True.
Would you let someone in your home without permission?

So simple for the simple minded.