Example# 1,000,000,015 showing why government spending doesn't solve problems

[Flopper]

Failing to cut taxes will increase business' unwillingness to expand. Government will never generate sufficient revenues to cover their deficit because every extra dime gets pledged out in new programs. Reagan was right that the only way to cut government was to starve it of funds. I agree the fed gov will not cut taxes. And I hope you agree that this will keep this recession prolonged for the rest of Obama's one term.

I think there is something you are missing. Government is only one of many factors that influences business. Fiscal policies such as government spending and tax rates and Monetary policy such as fed interest rates and money supply are only tools used by the government to nudge the economy in one direction or the other.

The major factors that push our economy into recession are excesses in business, consumers spending, and government. Regardless of government intervention, the economy will not recovery until those excesses are sufficiently corrected.

Excesses in business always occurs with economy expansion. We introduce product lines that are marginally profitable, we hire too many people, and get complacent. When a downturns occurs, we cut the fat and improve our efficiency. This is what has been going on since the recession started. By historic standards, business is lean and mean.

Consumer excesses have been on a pretty steady rise for 20 years. Consumer debt has risen steady out stripping income. Millions of homes were bought by those who could not afford them. Consumer savings fell year after year wiping out any financial cushion. The correction in these excesses are still going on and probably will for several years.

Finally government policies are also responsible for the downturn. Government policies have encouraged excessive home buying and loose credit. They have started to change with the financial reform law, however their is still more that needs correcting.

Government can nudge the economy along, but it will recovery at it's own pace. Politicians must always claim they have the answer but they don't.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Not insolent, just stupid. I hate to tell you this, Iam; not only are you filled with drama, but you're not all that bright.

Yes, well no one would accuse you of being dramatic now would they?
Noooooo

Take a poll and find out. Unlike you, I don't read into others' posts shit that isn't there. I have yet to develop any sort of mind-reading capabilities.

Moron. You are exactly what you seem. Reactionary drama queen who isn't too bright.

HaHa..keep it up...this is fun.

 

[Si modo]

Yes, well no one would accuse you of being dramatic now would they?
Noooooo

Take a poll and find out. Unlike you, I don't read into others' posts shit that isn't there. I have yet to develop any sort of mind-reading capabilities.

Moron. You are exactly what you seem. Reactionary drama queen who isn't too bright.

HaHa..keep it up...this is fun.

*yawn*

I await your next drama, though. That's consistently good for a laugh. I can always count on your reactionary nature.

 

[The Rabbi]

Failing to cut taxes will increase business' unwillingness to expand. Government will never generate sufficient revenues to cover their deficit because every extra dime gets pledged out in new programs. Reagan was right that the only way to cut government was to starve it of funds. I agree the fed gov will not cut taxes. And I hope you agree that this will keep this recession prolonged for the rest of Obama's one term.

I think there is something you are missing. Government is only one of many factors that influences business. Fiscal policies such as government spending and tax rates and Monetary policy such as fed interest rates and money supply are only tools used by the government to nudge the economy in one direction or the other.

The major factors that push our economy into recession are excesses in business, consumers spending, and government. Regardless of government intervention, the economy will not recovery until those excesses are sufficiently corrected.

Excesses in business always occurs with economy expansion. We introduce product lines that are marginally profitable, we hire too many people, and get complacent. When a downturns occurs, we cut the fat and improve our efficiency. This is what has been going on since the recession started. By historic standards, business is lean and mean.

Consumer excesses have been on a pretty steady rise for 20 years. Consumer debt has risen steady out stripping income. Millions of homes were bought by those who could not afford them. Consumer savings fell year after year wiping out any financial cushion. The correction in these excesses are still going on and probably will for several years.

Finally government policies are also responsible for the downturn. Government policies have encouraged excessive home buying and loose credit. They have started to change with the financial reform law, however their is still more that needs correcting.

Government can nudge the economy along, but it will recovery at it's own pace. Politicians must always claim they have the answer but they don't.

None of that is really an answer to anything I wrote. When all the S&Ls went out it took the RTC maybe a year or two to dispose of the inventory. We have backlogs of unsold homes precisely because gov't has intervened, circumventing the market forces that would clear the market. We still have ultra low interest rates. The financial reform law will do nothing except increase gov't and make doing business harder. Credit card rates are at historic highs, even as balances have fallen.
Gov't policies are the source of this continuing recession, not anything else. This should have been wrapped up after 18 months or less. But Obama's policies have prolonged it.

 

[MikeK]

It is clear as day that the "stimulus" did no such thing. It took from one group of people (the productive) and gave to another group of people (the unproductive). No economic growth can come from that. No wealth is created that way.

[...]

That is one of the most insidiously misleading mantras put forth by the American corporatocracy, the idle rich and their indoctrinated right wing puppets and misguided dupes, many of whom don't have a pot to piss in. The fact is, with very few exceptions, the actual productive class in America consists of those who punch the time clocks and produce the Nation's wealth by their often meagerly salaried efforts. Those who profit from those efforts by broadly divergent margins are beneficiaries, not producers. They are the new Robber Barons who have managed to incrementally rearrange the economic system so as to divert the greatest percentage of America's wealth from the working (productive) class into the hands of the mega-rich, creating what in effect is a new Gilded Age.

One of the ways this was done is by corruptively influencing legislation to enable the exportation of American jobs and the tariff-free importation of foreign products. A more direct means of transferring the Nation's wealth from the middle class to the new ruling class is by corruptively influencing radical changes in the tax structure.

The decades of the mid-forties through the mid-seventies represent a period of unprecedented economic expansion and beneficial growth of the middle class. The following outline reveals a radical change in the tax structure occurring in direct proportion to the economic decline and the transfer of wealth.

The income tax rate of $200,000 annual income, or more:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-june2010.pdf

And therein lies the tale.

That is how and why we have so many more billionaires and so many more paupers in our once proudly affluent nation. America was in fine shape when its resources were altruistically managed and equitable distributed.

So it seems you are not a rabbi but a shill.

 

[Charles_Main]

Geez...

AP Spin Meter: What Biden Didn't Mention on Stimulus

FRESNO, Calif. (AP) - Vice President Joe Biden said this week that the Obama administration "hit the accelerator" toward spending $5 billion under the economic stimulus law to weatherize people's homes, create thousands of jobs, help consumers save money and put the nation on track for energy independence.

Yet the weatherization program the vice president highlighted in his visit Thursday to New Hampshire is widely considered among the least organized spending projects under the $814 billion economic stimulus law and has regularly been targeted for criticism of its slow progress by auditors and outsiders. Biden didn't hint much at its troubles.

Nearly 18 months since it started, the stimulus weatherization program has experienced spending delays, inefficiencies and mismanagement. In Biden's home state of Delaware, the entire program has been suspended since May, and last month federal auditors identified possible fraud.

SPIN METER: What Biden didn't mention on stimulus - California Business - fresnobee.com

How can you expect it to be effiecient when BY LAW because of FEDERAL funding they have to hire people at the highest Prevailing Union wage to do the work. When Thousands of people out of work would be willing to do said work for half the cost.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

How can you expect it to be effiecient when BY LAW because of FEDERAL funding they have to hire people at the highest Prevailing Union wage to do the work. When Thousands of people out of work would be willing to do said work for half the cost.

A more important question is why are so many Americans out of work! Let's not concern ourselves with a symptom and look at the disease.

Why are American jobs going to India, to China, to Mexico, etc.? Who is responsible for this? Unless we identify the villains and deal appropriately with them the ultimate consequence is obvious: the U.S. will be a massive third-world country within ten years.

 

[rdean]

I have a better one.

Republicans spent three trillion dollars going after Bin Laden and Saddam.

They let one go and the other one is dead, but his country is now a hard right Islamic theocracy more friends with Iran than with us.

Republicans got all that for a measly three trillion.

Talk about "THRIFT".

 

[rdean]

It is clear as day that the "stimulus" did no such thing. It took from one group of people (the productive) and gave to another group of people (the unproductive). No economic growth can come from that. No wealth is created that way.

[...]

That is one of the most insidiously misleading mantras put forth by the American corporatocracy, the idle rich and their indoctrinated right wing puppets and misguided dupes, many of whom don't have a pot to piss in. The fact is, with very few exceptions, the actual productive class in America consists of those who punch the time clocks and produce the Nation's wealth by their often meagerly salaried efforts. Those who profit from those efforts by broadly divergent margins are beneficiaries, not producers. They are the new Robber Barons who have managed to incrementally rearrange the economic system so as to divert the greatest percentage of America's wealth from the working (productive) class into the hands of the mega-rich, creating what in effect is a new Gilded Age.

One of the ways this was done is by corruptively influencing legislation to enable the exportation of American jobs and the tariff-free importation of foreign products. A more direct means of transferring the Nation's wealth from the middle class to the new ruling class is by corruptively influencing radical changes in the tax structure.

The decades of the mid-forties through the mid-seventies represent a period of unprecedented economic expansion and beneficial growth of the middle class. The following outline reveals a radical change in the tax structure occurring in direct proportion to the economic decline and the transfer of wealth.

The income tax rate of $200,000 annual income, or more:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-june2010.pdf

And therein lies the tale.

That is how and why we have so many more billionaires and so many more paupers in our once proudly affluent nation. America was in fine shape when its resources were altruistically managed and equitable distributed.

So it seems you are not a rabbi but a shill.

Wow, it looks like we are paying the lowest tax rate in 60 years.

 

[daveman]

That is how and why we have so many more billionaires and so many more paupers in our once proudly affluent nation. America was in fine shape when its resources were altruistically managed and equitable distributed.

Why do you feel entitled to that which you didn't earn?

 

[MikeK]

Why do you feel entitled to that which you didn't earn?

The question is who really did the earning? The worker who sweats on the assembly line or the CEO who goes home with a $350,000,000 bonus? The stockholder who sits by the pool waiting for the weekly dividend check? The heir who inherits a $10,000,000 annual trust fund check?

How do you feel about the fact that the second most profitable corporation in the world, Exxon/Mobil, paid exactly zero in federal taxes last year? Would you say there is something wrong with that? Or are you one of those ordinary Americans who have been duped by right-wing propaganda into believing the American dream means unlimited capitalist exploitation?

Enough is enough.

 

[rdean]

That is how and why we have so many more billionaires and so many more paupers in our once proudly affluent nation. America was in fine shape when its resources were altruistically managed and equitable distributed.

Why do you feel entitled to that which you didn't earn?

Why don't you support this country? Why don't you want others to support this country? Don't you like it?

 

[The Rabbi]

It is clear as day that the "stimulus" did no such thing. It took from one group of people (the productive) and gave to another group of people (the unproductive). No economic growth can come from that. No wealth is created that way.

[...]

That is one of the most insidiously misleading mantras put forth by the American corporatocracy, the idle rich and their indoctrinated right wing puppets and misguided dupes, many of whom don't have a pot to piss in. The fact is, with very few exceptions, the actual productive class in America consists of those who punch the time clocks and produce the Nation's wealth by their often meagerly salaried efforts. Those who profit from those efforts by broadly divergent margins are beneficiaries, not producers. They are the new Robber Barons who have managed to incrementally rearrange the economic system so as to divert the greatest percentage of America's wealth from the working (productive) class into the hands of the mega-rich, creating what in effect is a new Gilded Age.

One of the ways this was done is by corruptively influencing legislation to enable the exportation of American jobs and the tariff-free importation of foreign products. A more direct means of transferring the Nation's wealth from the middle class to the new ruling class is by corruptively influencing radical changes in the tax structure.

The decades of the mid-forties through the mid-seventies represent a period of unprecedented economic expansion and beneficial growth of the middle class. The following outline reveals a radical change in the tax structure occurring in direct proportion to the economic decline and the transfer of wealth.

The income tax rate of $200,000 annual income, or more:

1950 - 91%

1980 - 70%

1985 - 50%

1987 - 38%

2004 - 35%

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-june2010.pdf

And therein lies the tale.

That is how and why we have so many more billionaires and so many more paupers in our once proudly affluent nation. America was in fine shape when its resources were altruistically managed and equitable distributed.

So it seems you are not a rabbi but a shill.

blahblahblah.
Marxism was disproven a very long time ago. Seems you didn't get the message.
A guy on an assembly line is worthless without tools, materials, and a market for what he makes. There are lots of people who can work on an assembly line. There aren't too many who can design advanced machine tools. There are very few who succesfully develop a product. And there are a very very small number who can put all of that together so the operation makes money. And that is how people are paid.
Take your Marxism and shove it up your dustbin of history.

 

[daveman]

Why do you feel entitled to that which you didn't earn?

The question is who really did the earning? The worker who sweats on the assembly line or the CEO who goes home with a $350,000,000 bonus? The stockholder who sits by the pool waiting for the weekly dividend check? The heir who inherits a $10,000,000 annual trust fund check?

The worker gets a paycheck, does he not?

How do you feel about the fact that the second most profitable corporation in the world, Exxon/Mobil, paid exactly zero in federal taxes last year? Would you say there is something wrong with that? Or are you one of those ordinary Americans who have been duped by right-wing propaganda into believing the American dream means unlimited capitalist exploitation?

Enough is enough.

Like I said: Why do you feel entitled to that which you didn't earn?

Ever consider getting off your ass and working to better your lot in life? Or it is easier to sit around and bitch impotently on the internet that people should give you their stuff?

 

[daveman]

That is how and why we have so many more billionaires and so many more paupers in our once proudly affluent nation. America was in fine shape when its resources were altruistically managed and equitable distributed.

Why do you feel entitled to that which you didn't earn?

Why don't you support this country? Why don't you want others to support this country? Don't you like it?

Don't be stupid, unless, as I suspect, you simply can't help it.

I support this country. I don't support what you want this country to be. What you want has been tried as was proven to be a failure. Perhaps you should visit Cuba and see firsthand.

 

[The Rabbi]

Daveman, it's called "class envy". It is the belief that because you work hard at your job you ought to get the same pay (or more) as someone who sits in an office. Never mind that you have limited job skills. Never mind that you have limited schooling. Never mind that you have limited responsibility. It's all about MMMEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[daveman]

blahblahblah.
Marxism was disproven a very long time ago. Seems you didn't get the message.
A guy on an assembly line is worthless without tools, materials, and a market for what he makes. There are lots of people who can work on an assembly line. There aren't too many who can design advanced machine tools. There are very few who succesfully develop a product. And there are a very very small number who can put all of that together so the operation makes money. And that is how people are paid.
Take your Marxism and shove it up your dustbin of history.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to vote Democrat.

 

[daveman]

Daveman, it's called "class envy". It is the belief that because you work hard at your job you ought to get the same pay (or more) as someone who sits in an office. Never mind that you have limited job skills. Never mind that you have limited schooling. Never mind that you have limited responsibility. It's all about MMMEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people want to be paid for breathing.

Say, did you ever notice the class war is being fought by people with no class?

 

[The Rabbi]

Daveman, it's called "class envy". It is the belief that because you work hard at your job you ought to get the same pay (or more) as someone who sits in an office. Never mind that you have limited job skills. Never mind that you have limited schooling. Never mind that you have limited responsibility. It's all about MMMEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people want to be paid for breathing.

Say, did you ever notice the class war is being fought by people with no class?

Like this class-envy bitch. NOtice that she wants to get paid "for her education." Like she isnt already.[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA[/ame]

 

[daveman]

Daveman, it's called "class envy". It is the belief that because you work hard at your job you ought to get the same pay (or more) as someone who sits in an office. Never mind that you have limited job skills. Never mind that you have limited schooling. Never mind that you have limited responsibility. It's all about MMMEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people want to be paid for breathing.

Say, did you ever notice the class war is being fought by people with no class?

Like this class-envy bitch. NOtice that she wants to get paid "for her education." Like she isnt already.

Someday, I'd really like to meet this The Man who's keeping everyone down and shake his hand.