Ex-U.S. Arms Hunter Kay Says No Stockpiles in Iraq

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin
Which do you think jimnyc? Stupid or a lie?

Neither.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
wow! the hyenas are out in full force!

if you're going to shoot down my post in one statement, i'll do the same.

How can either of you PROVE that Bush was not DELIBERATELY pushing reasons for war he KNEW weren't true?

Do you support an independant investigation into questioning his denials?

I can't. That's why we have the ability to elect our public officials. Only vote for those you trust if you can't believe his words.

What denials are you speaking of?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
you also conveniently forgot:

--------------------------------

2. Members of Congress are nearing an historic vote, and I am confident they will fully consider the facts and their duties.

now you could say this isn't lying all you want, but he was stating this as it was in fact, a FACT, and when so much is at stake, as in the immediate lives of our fellow americans that have died for these 'facts', you better be DAMN SURE there is beyond a shadow of a doubt.

--------------------------------

the was pushing these CLAIMS as FACTS. if he's not lying, then just speaking cluelessly is OK? not a lie??? ...there's got to be some kind of ACCOUNTABILITY here. because i'm really not buying it.
no matter how many times you yawn.

Who really cares what you buy and what you don't?

And I already covered this in my last reply, try reading a bit more thoroughly next time.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
2. Members of Congress are nearing an historic vote, and I am confident they will fully consider the facts and their duties.

now you could say this isn't lying all you want, but he was stating this as it was in fact, a FACT, and when so much is at stake, as in the immediate lives of our fellow americans that have died for these 'facts', you better be DAMN SURE there is beyond a shadow of a doubt.

'consider the facts'

I guess they 'considered' them and came to the same conclusion as everyone else that saw the intel.

Give it up, Spilly, you have absolutely nothing, as usual. If you don't trust Bush and don't like him - then don't vote for him. But if you think you are going to repeat the same crap over and over and it will somehow become the truth, well then you are mistaken.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Neither.

Seriously, jimnyc, what do you think of that statement? I understand you support Bush and I really didn't want to corner you, but I just can't think of another possibilty.

Help me out and maybe I can begin to understand Bush and maybe even someday support what was done. I can only speak for myself, but alot of Americans are really have alot of questions that need answered. And it's not just the far left.

Bush has just been stonewalling and saying he has complete trust in his intelligence even now. I am having trouble understanding why he isn't proactively launching an investigation into the intelligence he received By doing nothing, he is losing credibility for future situations that may be more dire.

For example, let's say that Bush received intel today that said Kim Jong Il is moving a 400 megaton nuke to Los Angeles. When Bush comes on the news and announces this, people are going to question it. And it may be true!!! This may be a shitty example, but you get my point I hope.

I feel Bush needs to explain what happened and fix it ASAP. I know you must feel the same way.

-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Seriously, jimnyc, what do you think of that statement? I understand you support Bush and I really didn't want to corner you, but I just can't think of another possibilty.

I don't feel cornered in the slightest bit. It wasn't a lie, and I don't think it was stupid either. He made statements based on the intelligence he received. By only giving those 2 possible answers, I dismissed it.

Help me out and maybe I can begin to understand Bush and maybe even someday support what was done. I can only speak for myself, but alot of Americans are really have alot of questions that need answered. And it's not just the far left.

And most Americans, myself included, want to know why the intel was faulty. I believe investigations are being done to answer those questions.

Bush has just been stonewalling and saying he has complete trust in his intelligence even now. I am having trouble understanding why he isn't proactively launching an investigation into the intelligence he received By doing nothing, he is losing credibility for future situations that may be more dire.

I would have trust in the intelligence as well. We have some of the best intelligence in the world. Investigations are being done, why would he launch another on top of that one? And even if he did, you guys would dismiss is regardless of the results saying it was biased.

For example, let's say that Bush received intel today that said Kim Jong Il is moving a 400 megaton nuke to Los Angeles. When Bush comes on the news and announces this, people are going to question it. And it may be true!!! This may be a shitty example, but you get my point I hope.

That's his job, he is supposed to make decisions based on the intel. Personally, I don't care if the citizens question it or not, as long as he is doing his job and is trying to secure the nation.

I feel Bush needs to explain what happened and fix it ASAP. I know you must feel the same way.

I think if the intel proves faulty, that the agency that supplied the info should explain. Then our government should work together collectively to fix it.

The job here is to finalize what was true and what was faulty. Then find out WHY it was faulty. Then take steps in the future to avoid the same problems.

 

[jon_forward]

besides our intel, other countrys intel was screwed as well. how do you explain this??? please leave out the countrys that had a vested monetary interest ....that leaves out almost everyone dont it?

 

[spillmind]

And most Americans, myself included, want to know why the intel was faulty. I believe investigations are being done to answer those questions.

that's a RELIEF! too bad that ain't gonna happen:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=iraq

if you're so sure your boy has nothing to hide, why oppose a probe? i'm very anxious to see you defend his stance on this one too!! i'll give you the bushie of the term award.

I would have trust in the intelligence as well. We have some of the best intelligence in the world. Investigations are being done, why would he launch another on top of that one? And even if he did, you guys would dismiss is regardless of the results saying it was biased.

to re-iterate bamthin's post, if this guy was pushing it on congress to accept it as 'fact', without even really knowing it was 'fact' makes anything else he says highly suspect.

(you can go right ahead and keep on believing everything this puppet spouts if you like)

The job here is to finalize what was true and what was faulty. Then find out WHY it was faulty. Then take steps in the future to avoid the same problems.

look, everyone except for bushie loving americans know the TRUTH, they've always known the TRUTH, and millions of protestors made their cases in record numbers. the TRUTH is, SOMEONE was FALSELY PUSHING the 'war in iraq' with the WMD claim, and i seriously doubt a government who can watch me catching a wave, or turning on my downstairs light IS NOT CLUELESS NOR 'MISINFORMED'.

it's admirable how you stick to your cause, but their facade is going down in flames.

 

[jon_forward]

spilly, why would the CIC have any reason to believe the intel he recieved was NOT truthful???

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jon_forward
spilly, why would the CIC have any reason to believe the intel he recieved was NOT truthful???

Any reason why he would be opposed to an independent investigation of the intel failures? I would imagine that, if I was squeaky clean, I would welcome an independent investigation to clear up all this uncertainty and to shut up all the people who doubt his truthfulness. I know that's what I would want if I were in his shoes and did what he did.

-Bam

 

[modman]

Originally posted by bamthin
Not sure if this a lie, per se, but it certainly raises the eyebrow:

“One of the ways we've got to make sure that we keep our economy strong is to be wise about how we spend our money. If you overspend, it creates a fundamental weakness in the foundation of economic growth. And so I'm working with Congress to make sure they hear the message -- the message of fiscal responsibility.” Bush, 9/16/02


-Bam

That means alot now after the news we just got about the cost of medicare. Cost: $400 Billion, no wait we were wrong, it's gonna cost 1/3 more. I guess i'ts $530 billion now. How incompetent are there people?

 

[jon_forward]

competent enough to see that a mistake was made and publicly correct it instead of hiding it. is that what you are upset about, honesty?

 

[jimnyc]

that's a RELIEF! too bad that ain't gonna happen:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=...=World&cat=iraq

if you're so sure your boy has nothing to hide, why oppose a probe? i'm very anxious to see you defend his stance on this one too!! i'll give you the bushie of the term award.

No, it IS being investigated like I said, just not an independent investigation. Not everything is a conspiracy. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot who I was 'speaking' to.

I'm confident that an internal probe will be sufficient.

to re-iterate bamthin's post, if this guy was pushing it on congress to accept it as 'fact', without even really knowing it was 'fact' makes anything else he says highly suspect.

And again, you avoided my question. If you say thi based on your quote before, what 'facts' EXACTLY was Bush referring to?

(you can go right ahead and keep on believing everything this puppet spouts if you like)

And you can cut off the blood supply to the rest of your body with that tinfoil, your perogative.

look, everyone except for bushie loving americans know the TRUTH, they've always known the TRUTH, and millions of protestors made their cases in record numbers.

That same gaggle of idiots protest anything that involves war. Very sad to see so many pussies congregate in one place.

the TRUTH is, SOMEONE was FALSELY PUSHING the 'war in iraq' with the WMD claim, and i seriously doubt a government who can watch me catching a wave, or turning on my downstairs light IS NOT CLUELESS NOR 'MISINFORMED'.

That's it, Spilly, just keep regurgitating this same crap over and over. Now rub your belly and forehead at the same time, that should help with the pain. As for the voices in your head...

it's admirable how you stick to your cause, but their facade is going down in flames.

Not a cause, I've so far sided with what I feel is right AND with the facts presented to me. Not every American is like you and follows the government via Moveon.org

 

[spillmind]

jim, every time i give you the benefit of the doubt, and treat you with the utmost respect, you always seem to resort to trifle name calling. why is this?

No, it IS being investigated like I said, just not an independent investigation.

oh really? indulge us on exactly who is conducting this, and to what extent, and for what purpose? this should be good!

what 'facts' EXACTLY was Bush referring to?

i've realised no matter what i post, you'll haggle over exactly what he was referring to... let's just assume for arguement's sake he was referring to the numbers and the claims of WMD and related in the state of the union address, ok?

And you can cut off the blood supply to the rest of your body with that tinfoil, your perogative.

huh?

That same gaggle of idiots protest anything that involves war. Very sad to see so many pussies congregate in one place.

your most compelling arguement yet.

That's it, Spilly, just keep regurgitating this same crap over and over. Now rub your belly and forehead at the same time, that should help with the pain. As for the voices in your head...

what is simply AMAZING, is how you deny that these claims were farbicated AT ALL. getting dragged kicking and screaming to the truth....

Not a cause, I've so far sided with what I feel is right AND with the facts presented to me. Not every American is like you and follows the government via Moveon.org

that's great that you feel it's right. i personally smell a rat. i have no party affiliation, like you do, and i am not partial to any politician. but developments of late have pretty whack. and i saw them coming a mile away!!! how did you not?

as far as 'facts', we've determined that that is up for interpretation.

 

[jimnyc]

oh really? indulge us on exactly who is conducting this, and to what extent, and for what purpose? this should be good!

The current administration is currently investigating the agencies that submitted the intel. It's impossible to determine to what extent the intel was off until the full investigation in Iraq has been completed. The investigators stated there were still millions of pages of documents to go through and hundreds of sites to visit.

i've realised no matter what i post, you'll haggle over exactly what he was referring to... let's just assume for arguement's sake he was referring to the numbers and the claims of WMD and related in the state of the union address, ok?

So you're going to accuse someone of lying based on your assumptions? How about you tell me, specifically, what facts he was referring to. How can we possibly determine if someone knowingly mislead or lied if we don't even know what exactly he was referring to?

He was given what he thought was up to date and valid intel. He presented that to congress as such. That doesn't make it a lie if the intel turns out to be faulty.

huh?

I had a feeling you wouldn't get it.

your most compelling arguement yet.

I'm glad you agree then. Seeing these idiots protest always cracks me up. Especially when they're interviewed and ultimately exposed as clueless.

what is simply AMAZING, is how you deny that these claims were farbicated AT ALL. getting dragged kicking and screaming to the truth....

Why wouldn't I deny that? I've yet to see one damn thing that shows anyone lied or knowingly mislead. I've never worn a tinfoil hat before, do you think maybe somehow the government infiltrated me with those pesky brainwaves?

that's great that you feel it's right. i personally smell a rat. i have no party affiliation, like you do, and i am not partial to any politician. but developments of late have pretty whack. and i saw them coming a mile away!!! how did you not?

And that's great that you think everything is a conspiracy. Regardless of affiliations, politicians, developments... You've failed to post one single thing that Bush supposedly lied about in regards to the war in Iraq.

 

[modman]

Who else has been hearing in the news that Dick met with members of the intelligence community pre war to supposedly have them revise thier reports in order to make thier case for war rock solid? Is Dick gonna be questioned about this as well as the people he met with?

 

[jon_forward]

nothing "rock solid" yet..the investigation is on-going so who knows for sure who will be called on...sure seems like there is a rush to condemn here...even prior administrations have had a chance to defend themselves, why should it be any different now???

 

[spillmind]

jim, i'd like to have a conversation with ya here, but if you can't understand:

let's just assume for arguement's sake he was referring to the numbers and the claims of WMD and related in the state of the union address, ok?

...then i can't even begin to debate. you'll point out facts of his speech and then avoid any reference of the WMD claims as a choice of statements to defend. WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

give me one good reason that an independant investigation is not a good idea, especially when so many have paid with their lives?

i'm not into conspircacies, i just know human nature, and it doesn't lend me to trust these people like you have.

:sausage::whip3:

 

[wonderwench]

Puh-leeze - if you are going to flog your sausage, please draw the curtains!

Back on topic:

Kay has claimed that Saddam was more dangerous than originally perceived - and that the WMDs had likely been moved to Syria - which required further investigation.

In any event, the world is better off without a despotic totalitarian tyrant who murdered his own people.

Period.

 

[spillmind]

i couldn't resist!

i may never grasp the novelty of the tinfoil, but does it really matter?

sure, it's much better without saddam. but there are consistency issues that make this strike seem very calculated and purposefully marketed that one cannot say that out of all the 'despotic totalitarian tyrants' in the world, saddam posed the largest threat. one could even argue that NK is far more of a threat because of the fact that they actually DO possess WMDs, and are within striking distance! don't see any invasion happening there! there are many reasons for that, for another thread. point made.

besides, we didn't put 'he's a despotic totalitarian tyrant' on the table for a premise of war. be serious- that alone is no reason to rally around. ..and given our history of intervention, and we come in the name of 'what's right'? puh-leeze

just try to picture trying to justify the strike in iraq WITHOUT THE CLAIMS OF WMD!!! maybe that will clear things up for you a little.