Evolution is most likely; homosexuality is natural

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by love11
I've just arrived and am curios about all this cause/causality mud slinging. What were you folks talking about?

To be honest, somewhere along the line I think the point's been completely lost. It's the USMB promise. Welcome!

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by love11

I've just arrived and am curios about all this cause/causality mud slinging. What were you folks talking about?

You might want to read a few posts back to see Isaac's explanation. It is concise and to the point.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by ajwps
Isaac you are wasting your time with a person who has no ability to understand anything more than his navel.

This avengr guy belongs somewhere in the flat earth society.

Isaac is wasting his time proving the existence of fate, an impossible task.

I don't recall you ever having enough balls to take me on ajwps, so until you get up the the nerve, stfu, okay. Thank you.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Haha my dear RWA you are truly mixing up the meaning of cause and causality. Cause is the producer of an effect. Causality is the relationship between cause and effect. IF predetermined causality exists, the effect is assured.

In very limited contexts this may be true. ANd it's probability more than anything. It's not fate.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by ajwps
That link was meant for you and your thumpers. You were taken in and you aren't even aware you've been had.

Think about it.... your a dolt.....

Still, the fact remains. Your link doesn't prove fate. And you're a fucking idiot.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Still, the fact remains. Your link doesn't prove fate. And you're a fucking idiot.

-And BOTH are provable!

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Isaac is wasting his time proving the existence of fate, an impossible task.

I don't recall you ever having enough balls to take me on ajwps, so until you get up the the nerve, stfu, okay. Thank you.

I'm not trying to prove the existance of fate and a casual look at my posts would show that. I am simply stating Einstein's (and other modern scientists) basic hypothesis on predetermined causality, deeper physics. This not my point of view, but an interesting view nonetheless.

I do not believe in fate and if it does exist, it is still meaningless to me because of the way our individual reality interprets the universe. What matters is always the present, not the past, nor future.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

I do not believe in fate and if it does exist, it is still meaningless to me because of the way our individual reality interprets the universe. What matters is always the present, not the past, nor future.

Boy, I am glad to hear that considering past and future have no ramifications on the present and vice versa.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Boy, I am glad to hear that considering past and future have no ramifications on the present and vice versa.

I think you may be taking my quote out of context.

If one believes in fate, all past, present and future events were already predetermined so their are no ramifications in the present per se, except in the view of someone experiencing those events (anthropocentric observation).

In my opinion, past or future events cannot coerce a person into just one decisions. Consider a map of all the decisions ever made. Einstein's map would be a linear observation with no choices, just cause and effect.

Free choice would be the map of an infinitely branching tree. Where the past or future events do not pre-determine what we decide to do in the present. To me, this makes more sense.

To be clear: i did not mean that we should not reflect on the past, nor think towards the future, i simply mean that they cannot coerce into one decision in the present.

 

[Bart]

If one is an evolutionist, than what is the evolution advantage of homosexual behavior?

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

I think you may be taking my quote out of context.

To take things out of context is not a problem for our friend.

If one believes in fate, all past, present and future events were already predetermined so their are no ramifications in the present per se, except in the view of someone experiencing those events (anthropocentric observation).

In my opinion, past or future events cannot coerce a person into just one decisions. Consider a map of all the decisions ever made. Einstein's map would be a linear observation with no choices, just cause and effect.

Free choice would be the map of an infinitely branching tree. Where the past or future events do not pre-determine what we decide to do in the present. To me, this makes more sense.

To be clear: i did not mean that we should not reflect on the past, nor think towards the future, i simply mean that they cannot coerce into one decision in the present.

Exactly...

If in fact existence is only individual observations in a timeless dimension, then 'FREE CHOICE' or 'FREE WILL' allows for multiple and variable routes to an ultimate end fate determined by each observer during a short interval with a perception of TIME which is actually in a timelessness NOW.

Or maybe not......

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by Bart

If one is an evolutionist, than what is the evolution advantage of homosexual behavior?

Probably the same advantage evolution has for the appendix or a Christian.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Bart
If one is an evolutionist, than what is the evolution advantage of homosexual behavior?

From what I understand, for the individual there is none. Though it has some useful purposes from an evolutionary perspective.
1) Removes a genetic deformitiy from the gene pool.
2) Or in some species (you'll have to search the message board for my stats as I can't remember to save my life), it can act as a control for over-population. I seem to remember that some animal species have as much as 50% homosexual individuals in the species.

Essentially, it is not a good trait to have, evolutionarily speaking. It roots itself out by-definition.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bart
If one is an evolutionist, than what is the evolution advantage of homosexual behavior?

Natural population control. ya dig?

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Natural population control. ya dig?

Bingo.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Bingo.

Uh-oh. we agreed. Surely this foretells the endtimes. Though there is no fate, mind you!

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Uh-oh. we agreed. Surely this foretells the endtimes. Though there is no fate, mind you!

Yup, I'd say we're officially screwed.
Maybe that explains the people running wildly for their lives in the streets. That or the Calgary Flames game... either works.

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

From what I understand, for the individual there is none. Though it has some useful purposes from an evolutionary perspective.
1) Removes a genetic deformitiy from the gene pool.
2) Or in some species (you'll have to search the message board for my stats as I can't remember to save my life), it can act as a control for over-population. I seem to remember that some animal species have as much as 50% homosexual individuals in the species.

Essentially, it is not a good trait to have, evolutionarily speaking. It roots itself out by-definition.

Isaac there are some significant statistics detailing the number of artists, inventors, scientists, composers who just happen to have that one aberant finding of gender identification.

If I remember correctly, Mozart, Divinci, Aristotle and Allen Turin (British inventor of the first computer) are just a few.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Mustafa
Isaac there are some significant statistics detailing the number of artists, inventors, scientists, composers who just happen to have that one aberant finding of gender identification.

If I remember correctly, Mozart, Divinci and Allen Turin (British inventor of the first computer) are just a few.

Which may indeed be the case! Socially speaking, I have no quams with homosexuality (though I know others do for various reasons). However, the question was brought up in the evolutionary context and their role is not to pass on their genes and as RWA said (man, this is an odd day) population control.

 

[Mustafa]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

Which may indeed be the case! Socially speaking, I have no quams with homosexuality (though I know others do for various reasons). However, the question was brought up in the evolutionary context and their role is not to pass on their genes and as RWA said (man, this is an odd day) population control.

Actually there was a man by the name of Malthus who a couple of hundred years ago concerned himself with population control for overpopulated species. Homosexuality was not one of them but in my humble opinion hold as true in his day as they are to this. Malthus seemed to think that these three laws to control populations are as natural as the law of gravity, time, quanta or any other law that is known at this time.

1) If you were to take small white mice, usually very playful, into a box in which they are crowded together with no extra room what do they do? They kill one another. (WAR) Same for humans

2) STARVATION. History has had times when large populations have been thinned out from this phenomena. When there is little food in the woods, the deer population becomes much thinner due to poor reproduction.

3) DISEASE. Today we have a disease called AIDS. Scientists and researchers around the world are working on a cure for this disase that kills in the tens of thousands and is growing exponentially. The closer they seem to get to solving the problem of this fragile virus, the faster it changes to prevent treatment.

In the middle ages Bubonic plaque killed millions of people in Europe and other places. No one knew about bacteria or the effects of these microscopic organisms. It appears that after enough people died, the disease attenuated itself and those still living had a form of immunity. This third law seemed to thin the population and then disappear. Hopefully this will happen with AIDS.