Evidence: Judeo-Christian Bible Inspired by God

[editec]

Oh ye of little faith.

If you are a CHRISITAN seeking to PROVE the existence of GOD, then you don't understand your own religion.

 

[amrchaos]

I did not know that the Earth was hanging.

Also funny, is that the concept that the Earth was flat was endorsed by Christians. The Christians also prosecuted people that suggested otherwise. Even calling them heretics and used punsihments from house arrest to burnings. Seem a bit strange that these christians did not read or misinterpretted the good book?

Also--Theories and speculations about the shape and form of our world came into existance long before Moses walked the Earth. Does that mean only the theories that were correct were god inspired? Or is it possible that different ideas were shared among different groups and the ones that were popular were added to the religion to give the religion weight on the scales of truth and falsehood?

The last is a favorite argument I use with my friend concerning Islam and how it is true. It is possible for some information to be discovered and proven long before it became popluar. If some truth about our universe appears in some book does that not mean that it was divinely inspired or previously discovered and proven? Note that a religion that is based in unverifiable claims will not list how such "truth" is provable. That tends to lead to the question of why are the other truths left unproven? A verydangerous prospect for any UVC religion to get into.

 

[Alter2Ego]

The problem is that most members of the Canidae family had diverged long before the time of Noah. If he didn't bring along all the different members of the family, we wouldn't see them today.

ALTER2EGO -to- KONRADV:

How would you know that? Were you there? If you got that from pro-evolution scientists who can't find a single bone in the fossils record to prove macroevolution occurred, filed it under the heading "SPECULATIONS, DELUSIONS & MYTH."

 

[Alter2Ego]

I did not know that the Earth was hanging.

ALTER2EGO -to- AMRCHAOS:

Moses, who wrote the book of Job, wrote under divine inspiration of God. He was describing how the earth looks from the viewpoint of Jehovah God--from the position of someone who is hovered above earth.

"He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing;..." (Job 26:7)

It was not until the 20th century, when humans mastered space flight, that what Moses described was confirmed. Astronauts confirmed that earth indeed appears to be floating in mid-air with no visible sign of support (since gravity is invisible). Look at the photo below taken from outer space. Notice there's no visible support and that earth appears as described by Moses to be literally hanging upon nothing.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Also funny, is that the concept that the Earth was flat was endorsed by Christians. The Christians also prosecuted people that suggested otherwise. Even calling them heretics and used punsihments from house arrest to burnings. Seem a bit strange that these christians did not read or misinterpretted the good book?

ALTER2EGO -to- AMRCHAOS:
Those were the Roman Catholics. That's "Roman" as in non-Jews. The same Romans that crucified Jesus Christ before some of them decided to adopt Christianity and proceeded to bring all types of pagan/false doctrines into their perverted version of Christianity. Keep in mind that Jesus' early disciples who accompanied him in the Bible teaching work were Jews. In other words, the Roman Catholics—then and now—do not represent religious truth.

Also--Theories and speculations about the shape and form of our world came into existance long before Moses walked the Earth. Does that mean only the theories that were correct were god inspired? Or is it possible that different ideas were shared among different groups and the ones that were popular were added to the religion to give the religion weight on the scales of truth and falsehood?

ALTER2EGO -to- AMRCHAOS:
That may be so, but none of the theories and speculations were accurate, with the exception of what Moses and Isaiah wrote. It was not until the 4th century BCE that the Greeks finally got it right—when Aristotle the philosopher theorized that the earth is a sphere. Moses wrote the book of Job under divine inspiration in the 15th century BCE—more than a thousand years before the Greeks figured it out. Isaiah wrote his book in the 8th century BCE or 400 years before the Greeks theorized earth is a sphere.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I glanced at the OP and I just KNEW that YWC was going to show up to tell us how true it is that the bible predicts things the authors could not know, and that he was going to post that damn WALL OF TEXT showing examples of what he considers evidence of scientific knowledge by biblical authors.

Thanks YWC! You are predictably rude in your posting.

Hello montrovant , its great here at the beach. Monty if people keep making claims they know little about I am gonna show how little they know.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What I wanna know is how Noah kept 3200 orchid varieties, 11,000 birds(22,000, if you have male and female as the scripteth revealeth) and 8 million insects on his raft ?
We'll go after everything else later.

You mean variations could not happen within a family through genetic information ? How do you know what existed at the time of Noah ?

 

[bodecea]

earth hangs upon nothing--indicating gravity

Bit of a stretch, don't you think?

the Earth hangs? Hangs from what?

What suspends the earth or any planet ?

velocity counteracted by the gravity of the sun. We stop our revolution, we burn up. The sun's gravity somehow lessens, we spin off into the emptiness of space.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What I wanna know is how Noah kept 3200 orchid varieties, 11,000 birds(22,000, if you have male and female as the scripteth revealeth) and 8 million insects on his raft ?
We'll go after everything else later.

ALTER2EGO -to- DOUGER:

All that was necessary was for Noah to collect one single KIND of orchid. All of the varieties came from that one kind. The same was true in the case of animals. Let's take dogs for example. Dogs belong to the wolf family. All that was required was for Noah to collect a male and female kind of wolf-like animal. From that one breeding pair, all the different breeds of dogs resulted, along with coyote, jackal. etc.

"And God went on to say: 'Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, upon the earth.' And it came to be so." (Genesis 1:11)

"And God went on to say: 'Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.' And it came to be so." (Genesis 1:24)

How MANY and what TYPE of animals did Noah's Ark carry?
How many and what type of animals would the ark have to carry? Many scoffers suggest that the ark would have been overloaded. They suggest that Noah would need to gather millions of different animals. Since there are millions of species of animals there would have been millions of animals on the ark! Is this true?

The word species and the Biblical word "kind" are often used interchangeably. This is incorrect since they are not synonymous. The Biblical word kind denotes an organism that reproduces others like itself. The species concept is much narrower than this; therefore many species can be included in a single Biblical "kind." The word kind is probably closer to the modern taxonomic unit of genus, and in some cases the larger taxonomic unit, family.

The Canidae (canine) family includes about 14 genera of dog like animals. These include the coyote, dog, wolf, jackal, etc. The ark did not have to contain the hundreds of species of canines that make up this group. In reality, these were all represented by a few "kind." These "kind" would then produce all the animals that make up the Canidae family. For example all of the hundreds of varieties of domestic pigeons that have all been produced originated from one species, the wild rock pigeon (Columbia livia).

Was Noah's Ark big enough for all the animals?

The problem is that most members of the Canidae family had diverged long before the time of Noah. If he didn't bring along all the different members of the family, we wouldn't see them today.

How do you prove what you said in this post ?

 

[bodecea]

What I wanna know is how Noah kept 3200 orchid varieties, 11,000 birds(22,000, if you have male and female as the scripteth revealeth) and 8 million insects on his raft ?
We'll go after everything else later.

You mean variations could not happen within a family through genetic information ? How do you know what existed at the time of Noah ?

Noah? You believe in Noah?

 

[Youwerecreated]

the Earth hangs? Hangs from what?

What suspends the earth or any planet ?

velocity counteracted by the gravity of the sun. We stop our revolution, we burn up. The sun's gravity somehow lessens, we spin off into the emptiness of space.

Yes ,gravity was the key to my point. The appearance is we are held into position nothing.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What I wanna know is how Noah kept 3200 orchid varieties, 11,000 birds(22,000, if you have male and female as the scripteth revealeth) and 8 million insects on his raft ?
We'll go after everything else later.

You mean variations could not happen within a family through genetic information ? How do you know what existed at the time of Noah ?

Noah? You believe in Noah?

Yes I do. I have never been given a reason not to believe what is written in the bible. I am a pretty skeptical person.

 

[Montrovant]

I glanced at the OP and I just KNEW that YWC was going to show up to tell us how true it is that the bible predicts things the authors could not know, and that he was going to post that damn WALL OF TEXT showing examples of what he considers evidence of scientific knowledge by biblical authors.

Thanks YWC! You are predictably rude in your posting.

Hello montrovant , its great here at the beach. Monty if people keep making claims they know little about I am gonna show how little they know.

Oh, I have no problem at all with you posting your opinions on this or any other matter. That's what we're all here for.

No, my problem is the giant wall of text, which you have posted before in other thread(s). As I've said before, that kind of post is rude. Just as bad is the people who quote the whole thing. It takes up too much space. A link and a summary do not hog the page and still allow you to provide the same information.

 

[Alter2Ego]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

The Judeo-Bible is not flawed. Bible critics for years attempted to cast doubt on Bible prophesies by claiming they were written post-event (AFTER the event occurred). The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls effectively silenced Bible critics who had been insisting for years that Bible prophesies were written after their fulfillment. Certain parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated as far back as the 5th century B.C.E. or 500 years before Christ appeared on earth. Those scrolls contain fragments of all but one of the books of the Old Testament.

The Old Testament we use today is translated from what's called the Masoretic Text. The Masorites were Jewish scholars who between AD 500 and 950 gave the Old Testament the form we use today. To give you an idea of the time difference, we presently live in the year 2012 C.E. (or AD). The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to at least 1,000 years OLDER THAN the Masoretic Text.

Many Old Testament critics fully expected to find a multitude of errors and changes in the Dead Sea Scrolls to bolster their accusations that parts of the Old Testament were written late and made to appear as if they had been written before the fulfilled prophecies. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls made these critics look like complete fools, because the Dead Sea Scrolls accurately reflect what is in modern-day Bibles and confirm that the Masoretic Text is accurate. In other words, the contents of the scriptures had not been changed.

Bible critics also claim the book of Isaiah was "multi-authored" but cannot produce a shred of evidence as proof. What they bring to the table instead is their personal opinions aka speculations. Since nobody today was alive when the book of Isaiah was being written, such statements lack credibility. It also indicates that the motives of the persons making such statements are highly suspicious. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls proves that Isaiah gave an accurate rendition of future prophesies that were later fulfilled.

 

[Alter2Ego]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

The God of the Judeo-Christian Bible, Jehovah, presents proof that he is the true God by means of nearly 2,000 accurately fulfilled Bible prophecies, many of which have been confirmed by archeology and secular history. Aside from those who view the Judeo-Christian Bible as the inspired word of God, no religion has been able to present evidence that their religious writings were done by Divine inspiration from their god.


Since neither archeology nor secular history are affiliated with the Bible, their confirmation of the fulfillment of Bible prophecies qualifies them as independent sources. Therefore, this is not circular argument in which one could argue I'm using the Bible to prove the Bible.

The accuracy of Bible prophecies, in turn, indicates that Jehovah God who inspired the writings of those prophecies is the true God.

 

[HUGGY]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

There are various types of religions with their own sacred books called bibles. Along that line, many people feel all religions are valid and are simply different roads to the same place. Likewise, many feel that the sacred book/bible of every religion came from God. For instance, Muslims claim the Koran is the correct bible, while Christians claim the Judeo-Christian Bible is the right one.

The difference between the Judeo-Christian Bible and other religious books is that there is EVIDENCE showing the Judeo-Christian Bible was inspired by Almighty God. No other religious book has been able to prove such. For instance, almost 2,000 Bible prophesies have been fulfilled, some written centuries before the fulfillment of the prophesied events. Secular history and archeology bears this out. In addition, Bible writers were privy to information that was not discovered by scientists and explorers until centuries later. Below are two such examples.

Example #1: For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after the first circumnavigation of the globe was led by Ferdinand Magellan in the year 1519 that this theory of a 3-Dimensional, circular earth was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Ferdinand Magellan attempted to sail around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write:

"{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)


Example #2: Prior to the 17th century, none of the best scientific minds could explain what causes the earth to be positioned in a stable orbit. Then in 1687, Isaac Newton published his theory that gravitational forces are the explanation behind the earth's stability. (Gravity is also the reason why humans can move around without fear of toppling off the earth into space.) More than 3,000 years before Newton's existence, under divine inspiration Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing (indicating gravity), as follows:

"He [God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing;..." (Job 26:7)


DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. How could Isaiah have known that the earth is circular, considering that the writing of the book of Isaiah was completed in 732 B.C.E., and it wasn't until the 16th century AD/CE that the first person to attempt to prove the earth is a circle was Ferdinand Magellan? Magellan attempted to circumnavigate the globe in 1519 AD/CE or 2,251 years AFTER Isaiah wrote that the earth is a circle.
http://didyouknow.org/sailing/
Ferdinand Magellan: the first to go around the world? : Explorers & leaders : Sea & ships fact files : Sea & ships : Explore online : RMG


2. How did Job know that the earth hangs upon nothing--indicating gravity--considering that the book of Job was completed in 1473 B.C.E. and it wasn't until 1687 AD/CE that Isaac Newton published his theory about gravitational forces--3,160 years AFTER Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing?
Sir Isaac Newton


3. Where did Isaiah and Moses get this info?

You are an idiot. A circle is not a sphere. If that is your "evidense". You are dumber than I first thought from the title.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Example #1: For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after the first circumnavigation of the globe was led by Ferdinand Magellan in the year 1519 that this theory of a 3-Dimensional, circular earth was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Ferdinand Magellan attempted to sail around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write:

"{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)

You are an idiot. A circle is not a sphere. If that is your "evidense". You are dumber than I first thought from the title.

ALTER2EGO -to- HUGGY:
Now, that's cute. You cannot even spell the word "evidence" in a post as short as the one you posted above, but accuse me of being "an idiot" and "dumber" than you first thought. Never mind that I clearly stated in my OP, which you quoted, that circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE).

But I'm the one who is the "idiot" and "dumber" than you first thought. Do you see why it took months for me to even respond to what you posted above?

 

[HUGGY]

You mean variations could not happen within a family through genetic information ? How do you know what existed at the time of Noah ?

Noah? You believe in Noah?

Yes I do. I have never been given a reason not to believe what is written in the bible. I am a pretty skeptical person.

Is this your new stand up comedian routine?

 

[HUGGY]

Example #1: For a period of time in history, humans thought the earth was flat and that if one sailed too far out to sea, one was likely to sail off the earth. By the 15th Century when Christopher Columbus claimed he discovered the new world, most Europeans correctly theorized that the earth is a circle or sphere. However, it was not until after the first circumnavigation of the globe was led by Ferdinand Magellan in the year 1519 that this theory of a 3-Dimensional, circular earth was proven as fact. More than 2,000 years before Ferdinand Magellan attempted to sail around the globe, the prophet Isaiah did not merely theorize but stated that the earth is a circle. Isaiah was inspired by God to write:

"{22} There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gaze, who spread them out like a tent in which to dwell, {28} Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding." (Isaiah 40:22 and 28)

SIDE NOTE: Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)

You are an idiot. A circle is not a sphere. If that is your "evidense". You are dumber than I first thought from the title.

ALTER2EGO -to- HUGGY:
Now, that's cute. You cannot even spell the word "evidence" in a post as short as the one you posted above, but accuse me of being "an idiot" and "dumber" than you first thought. Never mind that I clearly stated in my OP, which you quoted, that circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE).

But I'm the one who is the "idiot" and "dumber" than you first thought. Do you see why it took months for me to even respond to what you posted above?

I'm dumb because I make spelling errors? I think you are dumb because you waste time and energy pointing them out. I don't have spell check. Big whoop! Don't fret sonny. I'm never going to be anyone's secretary. When I need to have comunications done precisely I hire a secretary. This is the internet. Taking over the internet in personal and public communications is twitter. I suppose you spend most of your time harrassing twitter spelling. It must give you much satisfaction knowing your focus on minutia is only appreciated by "smart" people such as yourself.

 

[BreezeWood]

Isaiah 40:22 and 28 ... the circle of the earth


(Hint) what celestial body such as the moon when viewed from earth is not circular + simple logic ...


* this is not a message from God.