Everything you ever wanted to know about the A-10

[longknife]

Great 2 minute video

And it appears it's going to be around for a while.

Story @ https://www.wearethemighty.com/gear-tech/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-a-10

 

[Pete7469]

I enjoyed watching them strafe targets in Kandahar.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

 

[westwall]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Great 2 minute video

And it appears it's going to be around for a while.

Story @ https://www.wearethemighty.com/gear-tech/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-a-10

Your film is incorrect. The A-10 was not the first. The First goes to the A-1. When the A-1 was retired, it left a huge hole that the A-10 has been trying to fill but it has yet to been able to cover. The Entire inventory has tried but the holes are still there. The first Titanium Bathtub goes to the P-47, next goes to the A-1, then the A-7 and then the A-10. All were legendary in their ground attack roles.

Time over target goes easily to the A-1 that could loiter hours over a target area and had over 2000 combat miles range with a medium combat load. I worked Trans alert on them. They landed with much of the wings and tail surfaces blown completely off. Limbs stuck in their engines, props bent and more. Holes throughout their airframes and wings from ground fire. Unexploded munitions sticking in them. They are still looking for an Attack Bird to replace the A-1 but the only bird that can replace an A-1 is another A-1

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

 

[westwall]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

 

[westwall]

What I often wondered, during war games, was how to shoot the sucker down if the other side had it.

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

The problem is when you are at 20K AGL your effectiveness is vastly diminished. Especially if the mission is CAS. If the mission is mud moving the A-10 is still the only aircraft out there that can get low in the weeds and survive a hit. That sort of mission almost guarantees you are going to get zapped, the flying tanks allow you to do the mission with a reasonable level of certainty that the aircraft will get you back home even if it is all shot to hell.

That means the pilots are more willing to get low and slow, and that makes them more effective. Especially when the targets are danger close.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Simple. Stay under cover until it flies over head, pop up with your heat seaker manpad and shoot it down. It's got to the point now where they are giving medals to A-10s that drop down to low to the ground for attacks with the ground troops being armed so nasty these days. The A-10 has lost it's advantage.

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

The problem is when you are at 20K AGL your effectiveness is vastly diminished. Especially if the mission is CAS. If the mission is mud moving the A-10 is still the only aircraft out there that can get low in the weeds and survive a hit. That sort of mission almost guarantees you are going to get zapped, the flying tanks allow you to do the mission with a reasonable level of certainty that the aircraft will get you back home even if it is all shot to hell.

That means the pilots are more willing to get low and slow, and that makes them more effective. Especially when the targets are danger close.

Not a given anymore. And it gets less of a given each day with the new weapons being introduced to the Bad Actors. As it stands now, there are Ground to Air Manpads and Truck Mounted Weapons that are Mark I Eyeballs that can take out an A-10 with one burst. It's a dice roll these days. This is one of the things that the A-10 pilot has to look for when he is reconning the situation. While he can't really see the shoulder fired weapons that well he can see the truck mounted ones. If he sees those, it's back up and he has no choice but to go the route of 20AGL or better. At that point, there are better aircraft for the job than he is. If the job has to be done down low and he knows that the really bad stuff is there chances are it's going to be the F-15Es show who will come in fast and low and not use guns. It won't always be done low and slow even if it's done low. The F-15E is nearly impossible to hit since by the time you are even aware that he is there he will be already be well past you and things will be already blowing up around you. The F-15E can also put things within a few feet where he will be aiming so it's no big deal. There just isn't that many of them to go around. Much like there isn't really enough A-10s to go around either. But this is a worst case scenario where they can't get one of the variations of the AC-130s that can also see through the soup and put the rounds within 10 feet of the target. The A-10 on the deck is when there is absolutely nothing else available and it just has to get done. Most of the Gun Films are either a few years old or are actually film from AC-130s that some idiot is claiming to be A-10 gun film. If it's recent, it's from small unit bad guys that they know will not have the really bad stuff with them and that is getting very rare these days. If it is an Iranian or a Syrian backed unit, chances are, they will have. Even ISIS may have some of this stuff since they over ran Iraqi depots along the way.

The reason the A-10 has a high survivability rate is the pilots. They are the best of the best. It's not the Aircraft. I have a feeling you could send them in with shopping carts and they would have a high probability of surviving. Imagine a jet powered shopping cart with a GAU-8 installed on it. Beat that, Tim Taylor. Those same pilots would be just as affective flying F-35s or even A-1s.

 

[westwall]

Oh, I think you are being a bit over dramatic. The AN/AAR-47 is quite capable of handling IR threats. Even the SA-15 is decoyed away.

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

The problem is when you are at 20K AGL your effectiveness is vastly diminished. Especially if the mission is CAS. If the mission is mud moving the A-10 is still the only aircraft out there that can get low in the weeds and survive a hit. That sort of mission almost guarantees you are going to get zapped, the flying tanks allow you to do the mission with a reasonable level of certainty that the aircraft will get you back home even if it is all shot to hell.

That means the pilots are more willing to get low and slow, and that makes them more effective. Especially when the targets are danger close.

Not a given anymore. And it gets less of a given each day with the new weapons being introduced to the Bad Actors. As it stands now, there are Ground to Air Manpads and Truck Mounted Weapons that are Mark I Eyeballs that can take out an A-10 with one burst. It's a dice roll these days. This is one of the things that the A-10 pilot has to look for when he is reconning the situation. While he can't really see the shoulder fired weapons that well he can see the truck mounted ones. If he sees those, it's back up and he has no choice but to go the route of 20AGL or better. At that point, there are better aircraft for the job than he is. If the job has to be done down low and he knows that the really bad stuff is there chances are it's going to be the F-15Es show who will come in fast and low and not use guns. It won't always be done low and slow even if it's done low. The F-15E is nearly impossible to hit since by the time you are even aware that he is there he will be already be well past you and things will be already blowing up around you. The F-15E can also put things within a few feet where he will be aiming so it's no big deal. There just isn't that many of them to go around. Much like there isn't really enough A-10s to go around either. But this is a worst case scenario where they can't get one of the variations of the AC-130s that can also see through the soup and put the rounds within 10 feet of the target. The A-10 on the deck is when there is absolutely nothing else available and it just has to get done. Most of the Gun Films are either a few years old or are actually film from AC-130s that some idiot is claiming to be A-10 gun film. If it's recent, it's from small unit bad guys that they know will not have the really bad stuff with them and that is getting very rare these days. If it is an Iranian or a Syrian backed unit, chances are, they will have. Even ISIS may have some of this stuff since they over ran Iraqi depots along the way.

The reason the A-10 has a high survivability rate is the pilots. They are the best of the best. It's not the Aircraft. I have a feeling you could send them in with shopping carts and they would have a high probability of surviving. Imagine a jet powered shopping cart with a GAU-8 installed on it. Beat that, Tim Taylor. Those same pilots would be just as affective flying F-35s or even A-1s.

I'm sure they would like to believe it is all down to their skill but the reality is the A-10 can take a hit that would disintegrate any other aircraft. That is just a simple fact.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Not always. If enough are fired, some will get through. This is why they are giving medals to those A-10s that find themselves in the situtation having to drop down and strafe these days. It just happened the other day. The A-10 was successful but that's a very dangerous place to be.

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

The problem is when you are at 20K AGL your effectiveness is vastly diminished. Especially if the mission is CAS. If the mission is mud moving the A-10 is still the only aircraft out there that can get low in the weeds and survive a hit. That sort of mission almost guarantees you are going to get zapped, the flying tanks allow you to do the mission with a reasonable level of certainty that the aircraft will get you back home even if it is all shot to hell.

That means the pilots are more willing to get low and slow, and that makes them more effective. Especially when the targets are danger close.

Not a given anymore. And it gets less of a given each day with the new weapons being introduced to the Bad Actors. As it stands now, there are Ground to Air Manpads and Truck Mounted Weapons that are Mark I Eyeballs that can take out an A-10 with one burst. It's a dice roll these days. This is one of the things that the A-10 pilot has to look for when he is reconning the situation. While he can't really see the shoulder fired weapons that well he can see the truck mounted ones. If he sees those, it's back up and he has no choice but to go the route of 20AGL or better. At that point, there are better aircraft for the job than he is. If the job has to be done down low and he knows that the really bad stuff is there chances are it's going to be the F-15Es show who will come in fast and low and not use guns. It won't always be done low and slow even if it's done low. The F-15E is nearly impossible to hit since by the time you are even aware that he is there he will be already be well past you and things will be already blowing up around you. The F-15E can also put things within a few feet where he will be aiming so it's no big deal. There just isn't that many of them to go around. Much like there isn't really enough A-10s to go around either. But this is a worst case scenario where they can't get one of the variations of the AC-130s that can also see through the soup and put the rounds within 10 feet of the target. The A-10 on the deck is when there is absolutely nothing else available and it just has to get done. Most of the Gun Films are either a few years old or are actually film from AC-130s that some idiot is claiming to be A-10 gun film. If it's recent, it's from small unit bad guys that they know will not have the really bad stuff with them and that is getting very rare these days. If it is an Iranian or a Syrian backed unit, chances are, they will have. Even ISIS may have some of this stuff since they over ran Iraqi depots along the way.

The reason the A-10 has a high survivability rate is the pilots. They are the best of the best. It's not the Aircraft. I have a feeling you could send them in with shopping carts and they would have a high probability of surviving. Imagine a jet powered shopping cart with a GAU-8 installed on it. Beat that, Tim Taylor. Those same pilots would be just as affective flying F-35s or even A-1s.

I'm sure they would like to believe it is all down to their skill but the reality is the A-10 can take a hit that would disintegrate any other aircraft. That is just a simple fact.

Looks to me that the F-15 wins that one.

But it's not the winner by far. That would go to the AC-130A. We had an AC-130 get into a nest of AA Guns and SAs that shot it to pieces. It took hits in three engines, had a gaping hole in one of it's wings, had 2 engines shot off, took a hit in one engines gear box, had a live round in the nose just under the crew compartment, over 300 holes in the fuselage and wings, half the tail blown off, the only fuel left was the emergency fuel in the fuselage, the landing gear had to be hand cranked down, and there was all kinds of other damage. It had enough altitude that it made it home. It was running on two engines and was slowly losing altitude. It taxied in. When they caged the engines, a Prop and the front of the gear box fell off. The wing was warped as well. Believe it or not, it was budwiezer beer can patched up and flown back to the states with the landing gear chained down to be completely rebuilt and returned. No other AC could have sustained that much damage and make it home. The old A models operated at about 10 to 12K altitude and were suseptible to ground fire. Today, the J and up operate at 30K and are less likely to be hit by any kind of AA and most SAs.

 

[harmonica]

it relies on air superiority/CAP to be effective

 

[westwall]

Interesting. You do realize that the exact same rules apply to the F-35 that you think so highly about. Funny that.

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

The problem is when you are at 20K AGL your effectiveness is vastly diminished. Especially if the mission is CAS. If the mission is mud moving the A-10 is still the only aircraft out there that can get low in the weeds and survive a hit. That sort of mission almost guarantees you are going to get zapped, the flying tanks allow you to do the mission with a reasonable level of certainty that the aircraft will get you back home even if it is all shot to hell.

That means the pilots are more willing to get low and slow, and that makes them more effective. Especially when the targets are danger close.

Not a given anymore. And it gets less of a given each day with the new weapons being introduced to the Bad Actors. As it stands now, there are Ground to Air Manpads and Truck Mounted Weapons that are Mark I Eyeballs that can take out an A-10 with one burst. It's a dice roll these days. This is one of the things that the A-10 pilot has to look for when he is reconning the situation. While he can't really see the shoulder fired weapons that well he can see the truck mounted ones. If he sees those, it's back up and he has no choice but to go the route of 20AGL or better. At that point, there are better aircraft for the job than he is. If the job has to be done down low and he knows that the really bad stuff is there chances are it's going to be the F-15Es show who will come in fast and low and not use guns. It won't always be done low and slow even if it's done low. The F-15E is nearly impossible to hit since by the time you are even aware that he is there he will be already be well past you and things will be already blowing up around you. The F-15E can also put things within a few feet where he will be aiming so it's no big deal. There just isn't that many of them to go around. Much like there isn't really enough A-10s to go around either. But this is a worst case scenario where they can't get one of the variations of the AC-130s that can also see through the soup and put the rounds within 10 feet of the target. The A-10 on the deck is when there is absolutely nothing else available and it just has to get done. Most of the Gun Films are either a few years old or are actually film from AC-130s that some idiot is claiming to be A-10 gun film. If it's recent, it's from small unit bad guys that they know will not have the really bad stuff with them and that is getting very rare these days. If it is an Iranian or a Syrian backed unit, chances are, they will have. Even ISIS may have some of this stuff since they over ran Iraqi depots along the way.

The reason the A-10 has a high survivability rate is the pilots. They are the best of the best. It's not the Aircraft. I have a feeling you could send them in with shopping carts and they would have a high probability of surviving. Imagine a jet powered shopping cart with a GAU-8 installed on it. Beat that, Tim Taylor. Those same pilots would be just as affective flying F-35s or even A-1s.

I'm sure they would like to believe it is all down to their skill but the reality is the A-10 can take a hit that would disintegrate any other aircraft. That is just a simple fact.

Looks to me that the F-15 wins that one.

But it's not the winner by far. That would go to the AC-130A. We had an AC-130 get into a nest of AA Guns and SAs that shot it to pieces. It took hits in three engines, had a gaping hole in one of it's wings, had 2 engines shot off, took a hit in one engines gear box, had a live round in the nose just under the crew compartment, over 300 holes in the fuselage and wings, half the tail blown off, the only fuel left was the emergency fuel in the fuselage, the landing gear had to be hand cranked down, and there was all kinds of other damage. It had enough altitude that it made it home. It was running on two engines and was slowly losing altitude. It taxied in. When they caged the engines, a Prop and the front of the gear box fell off. The wing was warped as well. Believe it or not, it was budwiezer beer can patched up and flown back to the states with the landing gear chained down to be completely rebuilt and returned. No other AC could have sustained that much damage and make it home. The old A models operated at about 10 to 12K altitude and were suseptible to ground fire. Today, the J and up operate at 30K and are less likely to be hit by any kind of AA and most SAs.

We lost an AC-130H during the battle for Khafji with the loss of all fourteen souls, so they are far from immune. But, big aircraft can indeed absorb a lot of damage. There's no doubt about that. Just look at the damage the B-17's would come back with during the Battle for Germany. Below are all aircraft that returned home despite incredible damage. Boeing make great aircraft!

 

[Daryl Hunt]

it relies on air superiority/CAP to be effective

All CAS does regardless of what Aircraft is doing it. When we had a crew go down, the whole area would go into a frenzy that would clear out the topcap first then start clearing out the SA and AA. Then the Attack Birds would go to work on the ground troops. Meahwhile, the Choppers would do the extraction. All the time, everyone would be under fire. There was a race going on. The Black Hats were racing to capture the down airman while the white hats were racing to extract him. The last to leave would be the A-1. This happened hundreds of times.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

It applies to every fighter, attack or chopper out there. This is why the first choice is the Buff or the AC-130 from 20K or higher when you can get one. Sometimes you just can't get one. Sometimes you can't get one of those and the ceiling forces you to come in low. At that point, it gets might dicey when you have to come in with eyeballs for nav. At that point, about the only bird that can come in using full nav is the F-15E. And sometimes you can't get one of those so the A-10 may be your only option.

The problem is when you are at 20K AGL your effectiveness is vastly diminished. Especially if the mission is CAS. If the mission is mud moving the A-10 is still the only aircraft out there that can get low in the weeds and survive a hit. That sort of mission almost guarantees you are going to get zapped, the flying tanks allow you to do the mission with a reasonable level of certainty that the aircraft will get you back home even if it is all shot to hell.

That means the pilots are more willing to get low and slow, and that makes them more effective. Especially when the targets are danger close.

Not a given anymore. And it gets less of a given each day with the new weapons being introduced to the Bad Actors. As it stands now, there are Ground to Air Manpads and Truck Mounted Weapons that are Mark I Eyeballs that can take out an A-10 with one burst. It's a dice roll these days. This is one of the things that the A-10 pilot has to look for when he is reconning the situation. While he can't really see the shoulder fired weapons that well he can see the truck mounted ones. If he sees those, it's back up and he has no choice but to go the route of 20AGL or better. At that point, there are better aircraft for the job than he is. If the job has to be done down low and he knows that the really bad stuff is there chances are it's going to be the F-15Es show who will come in fast and low and not use guns. It won't always be done low and slow even if it's done low. The F-15E is nearly impossible to hit since by the time you are even aware that he is there he will be already be well past you and things will be already blowing up around you. The F-15E can also put things within a few feet where he will be aiming so it's no big deal. There just isn't that many of them to go around. Much like there isn't really enough A-10s to go around either. But this is a worst case scenario where they can't get one of the variations of the AC-130s that can also see through the soup and put the rounds within 10 feet of the target. The A-10 on the deck is when there is absolutely nothing else available and it just has to get done. Most of the Gun Films are either a few years old or are actually film from AC-130s that some idiot is claiming to be A-10 gun film. If it's recent, it's from small unit bad guys that they know will not have the really bad stuff with them and that is getting very rare these days. If it is an Iranian or a Syrian backed unit, chances are, they will have. Even ISIS may have some of this stuff since they over ran Iraqi depots along the way.

The reason the A-10 has a high survivability rate is the pilots. They are the best of the best. It's not the Aircraft. I have a feeling you could send them in with shopping carts and they would have a high probability of surviving. Imagine a jet powered shopping cart with a GAU-8 installed on it. Beat that, Tim Taylor. Those same pilots would be just as affective flying F-35s or even A-1s.

I'm sure they would like to believe it is all down to their skill but the reality is the A-10 can take a hit that would disintegrate any other aircraft. That is just a simple fact.

Looks to me that the F-15 wins that one.

But it's not the winner by far. That would go to the AC-130A. We had an AC-130 get into a nest of AA Guns and SAs that shot it to pieces. It took hits in three engines, had a gaping hole in one of it's wings, had 2 engines shot off, took a hit in one engines gear box, had a live round in the nose just under the crew compartment, over 300 holes in the fuselage and wings, half the tail blown off, the only fuel left was the emergency fuel in the fuselage, the landing gear had to be hand cranked down, and there was all kinds of other damage. It had enough altitude that it made it home. It was running on two engines and was slowly losing altitude. It taxied in. When they caged the engines, a Prop and the front of the gear box fell off. The wing was warped as well. Believe it or not, it was budwiezer beer can patched up and flown back to the states with the landing gear chained down to be completely rebuilt and returned. No other AC could have sustained that much damage and make it home. The old A models operated at about 10 to 12K altitude and were suseptible to ground fire. Today, the J and up operate at 30K and are less likely to be hit by any kind of AA and most SAs.

We lost an AC-130H during the battle for Khafji with the loss of all fourteen souls, so they are far from immune. But, big aircraft can indeed absorb a lot of damage. There's no doubt about that. Just look at the damage the B-17's would come back with during the Battle for Germany. Below are all aircraft that returned home despite incredible damage. Boeing make great aircraft!

I can't remember what month in 1971 but we lost 5 AC-130As in 1 month. It goes without saying when you lose a Gunship that the souls go with it. It's not like a bomber where there is a good chance the crew will be able to get out. There is just too much Ammo concentrated throughout the bird. Not long after that the Es arrived. The main problem with the As was that they could not pressurize. They flew at less than 12K with open holes in their fuselage. Usually, right around 10K which was well within the AAs 37mm range. And easily in the SA2 range as well as the 88mm. On a moonless night, they couldn't be seen or heard but when the moon was full, they stood out like a sore thumb. When they introduced the AC-130U, they corrected most of the discrepencies of the old Specter. They pressurized the fuselage, enabled the guns to be aimed seperately from the fuselage, allowed the bird to fire from 30K altitude and more. It finally became the weapon system is should have been in the first place. The problem was, the old A was so damned effective like it was that they didn't have enough incentives to fix the problems until the losses started to mount up.

The original intent of the AC-130 was for CAS. And it was damned good at it. But it got side tracked into into going after convoys which it was very good at. That left a huge hole in CAS which the A-7 and A-1 picked up that slack. As good as those two were at CAS, neither were as good as the AC. The problem was, at night, nothing was as good as the AC at destroying Convoys.

Today, the AC is back to doing it's primary job of CAS but it fills in doing Convoy duty. It's better at CAS than the A-10 is but the A-10 is better at Convoy than the AC is probably. Each one was designed from the ground up for that specific mission. But each one can do either mission. But as one person pointed out, both require Topcap and other support to do their jobs. Both cannot really operate in an uncontested environment.

The question comes up. If the AC is so great,why don't we have more? Easy answer. They are making more but at about 500 mil a copy, it's damned costly. That's a lot of F-16s, A-10s and F-18s. Do you make a new AC-130J or do you make a new B-21?

War costs not just in dollars but lives.