Every death in Afghanistan from this point forward is on Obamas hands

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I believe we have accomplished all we can over there. In fact now it appears that previous gains are being lost. At this point i believe we are damaging our international cred.

Regardles of when we leave the country will probably spiral into civil war. At that point we simply need to keep our planes on alert to take out any terrorist threats.

We prosecuted this war wrong from day one and its time to cut our losses and save our men and women. On the current timetable we will leave in 2014. Most likely nothing will be any different then than it is now. Thus the deaths will be pointless and on Obamas hands.

BRING EM HOME

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thoughts?

Kinda wish i had included a poll to see how much support their is for the war among USMB members

 

[jillian]

Thoughts?

Kinda wish i had included a poll to see how much support their is for the war among USMB members

My thoughts? That the o/p is nonsense.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Whose hands were they on before?

 

[Full-Auto]

Thoughts?

Kinda wish i had included a poll to see how much support their is for the war among USMB members

Why do we fight wars when we have zero intention of actually winning?

If you must call upon soldiers to kill the enemy dont tie their hands, you become more ruthless then your enemy.

You kill anything that breathes, burn anything that grows, this land is mine.

The idea of we can fight and kill in a civil manner is a fallacy we have yet to learn.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Thoughts?

If it were 2005 and you wrote that, you would have been attacked as an unpatriotic, treasonous, America-hating Liberal.

My how times have changed.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Thoughts?

Kinda wish i had included a poll to see how much support their is for the war among USMB members

Why do we fight wars when we have zero intention of actually winning?

If you must call upon soldiers to kill the enemy dont tie their hands, you become more ruthless then your enemy.

You kill anything that breathes, burn anything that grows, this land is mine.

The idea of we can fight and kill in a civil manner is a fallacy we have yet to learn.

actually we knew that.

but the 60's happened and we will never again be able to destroy anyone that harms the country.



as far as blood on big 0's hands?

utter non-sense

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thoughts?

Kinda wish i had included a poll to see how much support their is for the war among USMB members

My thoughts? That the o/p is nonsense.

Why?

Because Bush isnt in charge anymore?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Thoughts?

Kinda wish i had included a poll to see how much support their is for the war among USMB members

Why do we fight wars when we have zero intention of actually winning?

If you must call upon soldiers to kill the enemy dont tie their hands, you become more ruthless then your enemy.

You kill anything that breathes, burn anything that grows, this land is mine.

The idea of we can fight and kill in a civil manner is a fallacy we have yet to learn.

actually we knew that.

but the 60's happened and we will never again be able to destroy anyone that harms the country.



as far as blood on big 0's hands?

utter non-sense

He is in charge. If we continue to fight for nothing defined then he bares the responsibility of those deaths. Thats what I ment by blood on his hands. Its his choice now

 

[Katzndogz]

obama's intention was to fight to a stalemate and hold that until the enemy gave up. Victory is not in his vocabulary and it might make the taliban unhappy if they knew we intended to win.

It's time to leave.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I have yet to hear anyone, including politicians, express a coherent reason to stay.

 

[Zoom]

I believe we have accomplished all we can over there. In fact now it appears that previous gains are being lost. At this point i believe we are damaging our international cred.

Regardles of when we leave the country will probably spiral into civil war. At that point we simply need to keep our planes on alert to take out any terrorist threats.

We prosecuted this war wrong from day one and its time to cut our losses and save our men and women. On the current timetable we will leave in 2014. Most likely nothing will be any different then than it is now. Thus the deaths will be pointless and on Obamas hands.

BRING EM HOME

and if he made it so they all came home next week, the right would say we are giving up.

Grandpa, shut the fuck up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I believe we have accomplished all we can over there. In fact now it appears that previous gains are being lost. At this point i believe we are damaging our international cred.

Regardles of when we leave the country will probably spiral into civil war. At that point we simply need to keep our planes on alert to take out any terrorist threats.

We prosecuted this war wrong from day one and its time to cut our losses and save our men and women. On the current timetable we will leave in 2014. Most likely nothing will be any different then than it is now. Thus the deaths will be pointless and on Obamas hands.

BRING EM HOME

and if he made it so they all came home next week, the right would say we are giving up.

Grandpa, shut the fuck up.

So you're afraid of the right?

Got it, you're just like Obama with youre finger in the wind

 

[JoeB131]

I believe we have accomplished all we can over there. In fact now it appears that previous gains are being lost. At this point i believe we are damaging our international cred.

Regardles of when we leave the country will probably spiral into civil war. At that point we simply need to keep our planes on alert to take out any terrorist threats.

We prosecuted this war wrong from day one and its time to cut our losses and save our men and women. On the current timetable we will leave in 2014. Most likely nothing will be any different then than it is now. Thus the deaths will be pointless and on Obamas hands.

BRING EM HOME

I think we should bring them home, responsibly.

But trying to pin a Romney 2012 button on every body bag is kind of irresponsible.

Obama is deferring to the Generals and their expertise. Which is what he should do.

 

[Mac1958]

The blood, deaths, missing body parts, destroyed minds, ruined families and missing dads, not to mention the wasted money, is the responsibility of the person who put us there in the first place. If it were not for him NONE of this would be happening. NONE of it.

This bullshit spin is an insult. The horror was just fine before. Sickening.

.

 

[The Gadfly]

I believe we have accomplished all we can over there. In fact now it appears that previous gains are being lost. At this point i believe we are damaging our international cred.

Regardles of when we leave the country will probably spiral into civil war. At that point we simply need to keep our planes on alert to take out any terrorist threats.

We prosecuted this war wrong from day one and its time to cut our losses and save our men and women. On the current timetable we will leave in 2014. Most likely nothing will be any different then than it is now. Thus the deaths will be pointless and on Obamas hands.

BRING EM HOME

and if he made it so they all came home next week, the right would say we are giving up.

Grandpa, shut the fuck up.

So you're afraid of the right?

Got it, you're just like Obama with youre finger in the wind

After what happened in Vietnam, my instinctive reaction is to reject the idea of ending ANY mission without completing same. However, when politicians in Washington set our military personnel up for failure, whether by an insufficient commitment of personnel and resources to the mission, poor planning and lack of coherent mission objectives, unrealistic expectations that make the mission a practical impossibility, or policies, procedures and ROE that likewise make the mission objective simply unattainable, there comes a time to say, "ENOUGH!" That time has arrived. Never mind whose administration started it, or whose administration is now in charge of this debacle, it has now become, in my view unconscionable to continue to place our military personnel in harm's way for for an objective that cannot be achieved by use of military force.

It has become increasingly apparent that our military and civilian planners have drawn too many of precisely the wrong lessons from Vietnam. Some of these include "nation-building is a viable military strategy", "the public will accept and support limited wars if we make those wars clean, neat and sanitary enough", "the American people will NOT support a total war, with use of maximum violence to achieve total victory over the enemy, even if that is done quickly, efficiently and at minimal cost, because such a war is too brutal", "it's OK for America to have a "Make-do" military, rather than a "Can-do" military-now that the Cold War is over the people must have their "peace dividend", no matter the cost in readiness, morale, American lives, or failed missions", and "we cannot win a war, unless the rest of the world is OK with us doing that". Every single one of those supposed lessons is both a fallacious conclusion from flawed premises, and an outright lie!

As a combat veteran, I feel it is my duty to set the record straight. As noted above, there is ONE and ONLY ONE way to win a war on an enemy's home soil. That way is, to use enough force to achieve the objective, use it with maximum speed and maximum violence, so as to grab the enemy by the throat, hold onto him, and choke him until one of the following conditions is achieved (1) the enemy no longer has the will to fight, and abjectly surrenders, or (2) he no longer has the resources in arms and personnel to resist, and abjectly surrenders. In other words, find the enemy, fix him, engage him, and utterly destroy him, in the most efficient manner possible. Note that no body counts, "hearts and minds work" or theoretical projections are needed; the fight goes on until there is no more territory to take, there is no more enemy to kill, and/or he runs up the white flag.

Yes, that kind of war is nasty; there is no room for chivalry or mercy in it, there is no sanitizing it, or softening it. It is utterly brutal, violent, and vicious. It is hell on earth, and it is that way because no matter what you do to try to make it more palatable to the squeamish, it always has been and always will be that way. War, since its earliest beginnings, has been at its most basic level, about one soldier saying to his enemy "This was YOUR land,: now, it is MY land, and you will either accept that, or die", and then imposing his will on his foe. You can minimize destruction and casualties on both sides by getting it over with as quickly, and violently as possible,or you can attempt something less, and have more destruction and casualties over a longer time frame for an uncertain result. Hell yes, it's awful, which is why the nation should only resort to it, when no other course of action will achieve the needed result. War is not a game, , a political exercise,or a sporting event, and should never be treated as one! If there is no clear national imperative to unambiguously WIN it, then there is quite simply no excuse for being IN it.

So to every politician democrat or republican, liberal or conservative,or anything in between, here's the message: Our military personnel have done their duty, without regard for their personal safety. Now it is your turn to do YOUR duty; stop playing political games, stop passing the buck and placing the blame, quite worrying about polls and re-election, and decide to either WIN , ALL THE WAY, or GET OUT, ALL THE WAY. You either have a clear necessity to win completely, or you do not; so make up your damn minds which it is, and tell the rest of us, because the time for wasting the lives and breaking the bodies and minds of American troops for partisan political bullshit is OVER!

 

[Flopper]

I believe we have accomplished all we can over there. In fact now it appears that previous gains are being lost. At this point i believe we are damaging our international cred.

Regardles of when we leave the country will probably spiral into civil war. At that point we simply need to keep our planes on alert to take out any terrorist threats.

We prosecuted this war wrong from day one and its time to cut our losses and save our men and women. On the current timetable we will leave in 2014. Most likely nothing will be any different then than it is now. Thus the deaths will be pointless and on Obamas hands.

BRING EM HOME

The president is always held responsible or given credit for everything the government does. In a sense, he's responsible for all military deaths during his term. I certain want to see us out ASAP, but we should have an orderly turnover of responsibility to the Afghans, which will take several years.

Although any lost of US lives is too many, US deaths are low compared to previous wars, which is probably why the war has lasted so long.

Afghanistan War - 10 years - 1,913
War in Iraq - 8 years - 3,500
Viet Nam War - 10 years - 58,000
Korean War - 3 years - 34,000
WWII - 4 years - 416,000

 

[Harry Dresden]

The blood, deaths, missing body parts, destroyed minds, ruined families and missing dads, not to mention the wasted money, is the responsibility of the person who put us there in the first place. If it were not for him NONE of this would be happening. NONE of it.

This bullshit spin is an insult. The horror was just fine before. Sickening.

.

so you were against us going there to begin with?....

 

[Mac1958]

The blood, deaths, missing body parts, destroyed minds, ruined families and missing dads, not to mention the wasted money, is the responsibility of the person who put us there in the first place. If it were not for him NONE of this would be happening. NONE of it.

This bullshit spin is an insult. The horror was just fine before. Sickening.

.

so you were against us going there to begin with?....

Yes. I understood the reasons for going in, but on balance, I thought it was a bad idea. The negatives outweighed the positives. If this had been a quick, surgical action with specific goals to meet and then get the hell out, I could have been talked into it. But when I saw us send a massive force over there, I knew what was going to happen.

And don't even GET me started on IRAQ.

.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The blood, deaths, missing body parts, destroyed minds, ruined families and missing dads, not to mention the wasted money, is the responsibility of the person who put us there in the first place. If it were not for him NONE of this would be happening. NONE of it.

This bullshit spin is an insult. The horror was just fine before. Sickening.

.

He certainly bears his share of the responsibility, but one can't give a pass to the man who has had the power to bring them home since January 20, 2009.