Ever changing definitions

[Navy1960]

"If You Make $250,000 A Year Or Less, We Will Not Raise Your Taxes. We Will Cut Your Taxes." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Powder Springs, GA, 7/8/08) Barack Obama


OBAMA AD: "The Obama Plan: Families Making Less Than $200,000 Get Tax Cut."

"What we're saying is that $87 billion tax break doesn't need to go to people making an average of 1.4 million, it should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people -- people making under $150,000 a year." (Joe Biden, Interview With WNEP Scranton, 10/27/08

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

On a personal level I would like to know in the ever changing definition of wealthy according to Barack Obama, which I am to believe? Am I to believe his latest 30 minute video presentation, or his tax policy on his own web page or his Vice Presidential candidate when it comes to his tax plan. As this plan will not come into play until the Bush Administration's tax cuts expire in 2010, is it clear that by 2011 when a tax program will get implemented, will these same definitions hold true?

 

[jschuck12001]

"If You Make $250,000 A Year Or Less, We Will Not Raise Your Taxes. We Will Cut Your Taxes." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Powder Springs, GA, 7/8/08) Barack Obama


OBAMA AD: "The Obama Plan: Families Making Less Than $200,000 Get Tax Cut."

"What we're saying is that $87 billion tax break doesn't need to go to people making an average of 1.4 million, it should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people -- people making under $150,000 a year." (Joe Biden, Interview With WNEP Scranton, 10/27/08

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

On a personal level I would like to know in the ever changing definition of wealthy according to Barack Obama, which I am to believe? Am I to believe his latest 30 minute video presentation, or his tax policy on his own web page or his Vice Presidential candidate when it comes to his tax plan. As this plan will not come into play until the Bush Administration's tax cuts expire in 2010, is it clear that by 2011 when a tax program will get implemented, will these same definitions hold true?

If you dont want to do the research yourself then I will do it for you.



Obama
you'd save...
If you make...
less than $19,000 $567
$19,000-$37,600 $892
$37,600-$66,400 $1118
$66,400-$111,600 $1264
$111,600-$161,000 $2135
$161,000-$227,000 $2796


If you're in the top 5% of earners
you'd pay
an extra...

$227,000-$603,400 $121
$603,400-$2.87 million $93,709
more than $2.87 million $542,882


McCain
you'd save...
If you make...
less than $19,000 $21
$19,000-$37,600 $118
$37,600-$66,400 $325
$66,400-$111,600 $994
$111,600-$161,000 $2584
$161,000-$227,000 $4437


If you're in the top 5% of earners
you'd save...


$227,000-$603,400 $8159
$603,400-$2.87 million $48,862
more than $2.87 million $290,708

*Source: Tax Policy Center. Numbers have been rounded. For complete details, go to TaxPolicyCenter.org.

 

[WhiteLion]

"If You Make $250,000 A Year Or Less, We Will Not Raise Your Taxes. We Will Cut Your Taxes." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Powder Springs, GA, 7/8/08) Barack Obama


OBAMA AD: "The Obama Plan: Families Making Less Than $200,000 Get Tax Cut."

"What we're saying is that $87 billion tax break doesn't need to go to people making an average of 1.4 million, it should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people -- people making under $150,000 a year." (Joe Biden, Interview With WNEP Scranton, 10/27/08

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

On a personal level I would like to know in the ever changing definition of wealthy according to Barack Obama, which I am to believe? Am I to believe his latest 30 minute video presentation, or his tax policy on his own web page or his Vice Presidential candidate when it comes to his tax plan. As this plan will not come into play until the Bush Administration's tax cuts expire in 2010, is it clear that by 2011 when a tax program will get implemented, will these same definitions hold true?

I doubt it, I tell you this day... that by the time Bushs tax cuts expire and if Obamas elected president, i fear the worst in all catagories: US economics, foreign policy, illegal immigration etc etc...to the point of civil upheavals....I dont pay much attention to the numbers game as it can be manipulated 8 ways from Sunday, what i watch is physical cause and effect in real world apps...thats where its at...

Anyone can tell you anything, mesmerize your mind, mystify the stories and exhilarate your soul, its up to you to except or reject hypnotic halitosis...-WhiteLion

 

[Navy1960]

If you dont want to do the research yourself then I will do it for you.



Obama
you'd save...
If you make...
less than $19,000 $567
$19,000-$37,600 $892
$37,600-$66,400 $1118
$66,400-$111,600 $1264
$111,600-$161,000 $2135
$161,000-$227,000 $2796


If you're in the top 5% of earners
you'd pay
an extra...

$227,000-$603,400 $121
$603,400-$2.87 million $93,709
more than $2.87 million $542,882


McCain
you'd save...
If you make...
less than $19,000 $21
$19,000-$37,600 $118
$37,600-$66,400 $325
$66,400-$111,600 $994
$111,600-$161,000 $2584
$161,000-$227,000 $4437


If you're in the top 5% of earners
you'd save...


$227,000-$603,400 $8159
$603,400-$2.87 million $48,862
more than $2.87 million $290,708

*Source: Tax Policy Center. Numbers have been rounded. For complete details, go to TaxPolicyCenter.org.

While I completely appreciate your efforts on my behalf jschuck, you can be sure, I am WELL aware of what Barack Omaba's tax plan is as stated on his web site. However, you missed the entire point of this thread, while I don't dispute the data you put up, as I have seen it many times, before thank you. I think it should be noted that the delta for what is considered wealthy shifts. It is not a constant message and given the fact that it is not a constant message and the time between implementation what will the tax cut really look like when it it is actually implemented in 2011.

 

[Mad Scientist]

If Obama is elected he'll just say "Circumstances have changed, I can't give you that tax cut now. Maybe in the future". Just like Bubba did.

 

[jschuck12001]

While I completely appreciate your efforts on my behalf jschuck, you can be sure, I am WELL aware of what Barack Omaba's tax plan is as stated on his web site. However, you missed the entire point of this thread, while I don't dispute the data you put up, as I have seen it many times, before thank you. I think it should be noted that the delta for what is considered wealthy shifts. It is not a constant message and given the fact that it is not a constant message and the time between implementation what will the tax cut really look like when it it is actually implemented in 2011.

So you want Obama to define what is considered "Wealthy". He is defining it based on who he will give tax cuts to. You have to understand that demographics are very different from state to state. You live in AZ. If you live in Northern VA the cost of living is very high and a single mom making $90k a year or a husband and wife making a combined $150k a year is far from wealthy but you cant slice and dice state by state. Has anyone ever defined what wealthy is considered to be?

 

[jschuck12001]

If Obama is elected he'll just say "Circumstances have changed, I can't give you that tax cut now. Maybe in the future". Just like Bubba did.

No way, he's locked in, if he does what you say it will be the end of him and people will never forget it, he will serve his 1 term but he will be a President thats gets little to zero respect and his political career will be done.

 

[DiamondDave]

He's not locked in.. because his tax 'code' does not take into account the extra spending he wants to do.. so either he has to up the taxes, or he drives the federal deficit to places so high, we'll all get altitude sickness

 

[Navy1960]

So you want Obama to define what is considered "Wealthy". He is defining it based on who he will give tax cuts to. You have to understand that demographics are very different from state to state. You live in AZ. If you live in Northern VA the cost of living is very high and a single mom making $90k a year or a husband and wife making a combined $150k a year is far from wealthy but you cant slice and dice state by state. Has anyone ever defined what wealthy is considered to be?

Again jschuck, I'm aware that standards of living are different from state to state. It is not me that is using the seperation of wealthy and middle class as a campaign year issue. So IMHO it should be a legitimate question to ask what a potential President will set that definition as, regardless of living standards across the United States . I know I can't define it , but on the surface it does seem that Barack Obama is trying to do so by using terms like "its time the rich paid their fair share".

 

[Care4all]

"If You Make $250,000 A Year Or Less, We Will Not Raise Your Taxes. We Will Cut Your Taxes." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Powder Springs, GA, 7/8/08) Barack Obama


OBAMA AD: "The Obama Plan: Families Making Less Than $200,000 Get Tax Cut."

"What we're saying is that $87 billion tax break doesn't need to go to people making an average of 1.4 million, it should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people -- people making under $150,000 a year." (Joe Biden, Interview With WNEP Scranton, 10/27/08

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

On a personal level I would like to know in the ever changing definition of wealthy according to Barack Obama, which I am to believe? Am I to believe his latest 30 minute video presentation, or his tax policy on his own web page or his Vice Presidential candidate when it comes to his tax plan. As this plan will not come into play until the Bush Administration's tax cuts expire in 2010, is it clear that by 2011 when a tax program will get implemented, will these same definitions hold true?

good afternoon navy!!!
i didn't see obama call anyone wealthy in what you printed? so, did he define it somewhere else? i have seen us, here on this site call the top two tax brackets wealthy but nowhere in those obama statements/ads...unless i skimmed over it by mistake?

care

 

[Navy1960]

Asked the same question earlier in the night, Obama joked that it was book sales of 25 million referring to Warren’s bestselling books. He then declined to give an exact number saying that it depends where one lives but that $250,000 a year means “you are doing well.” Saddleback Church

Biden was asked by ABC News' Kate Snow in an interview aired Thursday morning on "Good Morning America" if people earning more than $250,000 a year would have to pay more taxes under an Obama-Biden administration.

"You got it," Biden replied. "It's time to be patriotic, Kate

ABC News

OBAMA: I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I've been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes. We are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are middle-income individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to $1,000 worth of relief. Phil. Primary debate.**

'The rich don't pay their fair share, The Middleclass carries the full load in this country, while the rich just keep getting richer, and paying LESS' 8/2008 Barack Obama ..Ohio

I have never seen a solid number myself Care to be honest. In fact I have seen Barack Obama at times like in the debate in Ms. even say that he didn't think thin the rich didn't pay their fair share, but that he wanted to raise the levels to Reagan era levels. So who knows, and just today in Denver, Bill Richardson said " If you make less than 120,000.00 a year your taxes will not be cut. I am trying to see if this is just a communication thing with the campaign or is it a shifting of policy. The policy on a side note has not changed much since I first looked at the .pdf file long ago. By the way, good afternoon, and morning to you as well. It won't be afternoon here for about an hour.

 

[jschuck12001]

Again jschuck, I'm aware that standards of living are different from state to state. It is not me that is using the seperation of wealthy and middle class as a campaign year issue. So IMHO it should be a legitimate question to ask what a potential President will set that definition as, regardless of living standards across the United States . I know I can't define it , but on the surface it does seem that Barack Obama is trying to do so by using terms like "its time the rich paid their fair share".

Well Navy, if he has a plan where everyone who makes $250k or less wont see any tax increases then I believe he is saying that $251,000.00 is what he considers rich or $201k and up because we know in his plan people who make $201k - $250k wont get an increase or decrease.

 

[Navy1960]

Well Navy, if he has a plan where everyone who makes $250k or less wont see any tax increases then I believe he is saying that $251,000.00 is what he considers rich or $201k and up because we know in his plan people who make $201k - $250k wont get an increase or decrease.

You realize why I get somewhat of a chuckle here right jschuck, as I happen to fall in that zone, between increase or decrease. So recently I have felt rather like a tennis ball. I will say this though, what people seem to neglect to mention at least in my case, if my taxes do go up I will just find more deductions to make up the difference. Thats from a pure tax standpoint though, as long as other things don't start getting crazy like this 401K rumor I have been hearing about, which I think on a personal level would be a disaster so have dismissed it. I have moved quite a lot of money out of my 401K more due to the recent Wall Street issues and into CD's . I just got tired of watching it go down, and down along with the value on my home.

 

[jschuck12001]

Where did you see this, on his plan it says specifically that and I quote from his plan "The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan" so its not "To the levels of Regan", its greater relief than under Regan. Also about why you are hearing different numbers is because many people dont make the same money and not everyone will get the same tax relief so when Biden talked about people who makes $150k or less he is talking directly to that tax bracket. People just seem to want to jump on this like they are changing things daily and its not happening, and about Bill Richardsen, maybe he needs to read Obama's plan because I dont know what the hell he is talking about.

 

[Navy1960]

Where did you see this, on his plan it says specifically that and I quote from his plan "The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan" so its not "To the levels of Regan", its greater relief than under Regan. Also about why you are hearing different numbers is because many people dont make the same money and not everyone will get the same tax relief so when Biden talked about people who makes $150k or less he is talking directly to that tax bracket. People just seem to want to jump on this like they are changing things daily and its not happening, and about Bill Richardsen, maybe he needs to read Obama's plan because I dont know what the hell he is talking about.

Reagan got a top marginal rate from Carter of 70% evetually lowering it to 28%. So technically it depends on what part of the Reagan tenure your talking about. If your talking about his first term then Obama would be correct, if your talking about the end of his second term then Obama would be incorrect. There does seem to be a lot for numbers flying around and what I have done is just take Obama's original .pdf tax plan that has for the most part remained unchaged. It is one of the reasons why I speculated about a communication issue. Bill Richardson seems to me to looking for some kind of position in an Obama Administration, but I could be wrong. My hope is that Obama takes our Gov. off our hands. lol

 

[jschuck12001]

You realize why I get somewhat of a chuckle here right jschuck, as I happen to fall in that zone, between increase or decrease. So recently I have felt rather like a tennis ball. I will say this though, what people seem to neglect to mention at least in my case, if my taxes do go up I will just find more deductions to make up the difference. Thats from a pure tax standpoint though, as long as other things don't start getting crazy like this 401K rumor I have been hearing about, which I think on a personal level would be a disaster so have dismissed it. I have moved quite a lot of money out of my 401K more due to the recent Wall Street issues and into CD's . I just got tired of watching it go down, and down along with the value on my home.

My god, retired Navy employees make that much, no wonder the daughter keeps hitting you up for money.

 

[Navy1960]

My god, retired Navy employees make that much, no wonder the daughter keeps hitting you up for money.

laughs, It's called starting a career after the other one is over jschuck.

 

[MalibuMan]

No way, he's locked in, if he does what you say it will be the end of him and people will never forget it, he will serve his 1 term but he will be a President thats gets little to zero respect and his political career will be done.

LOL Lets hope so. Seems to me this is what will happen if he is elected. He can't pay for all his shit with tax cuts. No way.