Europe’s problem is Austerity?

[Koios]

Socialism has been allowed to creep througout Europe because Europeans going back to the Dark Ages are used to being ruled by a ruling class and getting what they can in little communities.

Americans were Europeans that escaped that bullshit to strike out on their own to make a living without being owned by some ruling class.

Slowly the US has had immigrants from other countries that have brought their backwards mentality here and we've allowed the Federal Govt to grow too big to where there are Americans that have figured out they can live off the public trough. These idiots point to Europeans paying out the nose in taxes and still getting a small apartment for life, so they want that here.

Not without military (vital) assisitance from France. And through most of the Revolutionary war, Franklin and Jefferson spent their time in Paris wooing the French into lending us more money, while Adams headed up to the Hague to get loans from them, not because we had a modicum of credit worthiness, but because our progressive ideas appealed greatly to their liberal ideology.

Imagine that.

And here every non neo-communist progressive was thinking it was because the French loathed the Brits......................

Indeed, that was France's driving influence. Pissing off the British Crown was absolutely le piece de resistance.

But imagine how difficult is was for the Colonies to borrow money from other governments. We're a tiny outpost, battling the world's largest military power. And oh yeah; we had no currency. Thank goodness for them pie in the sky liberals in Den Haag, whose affection for the radical ideas the Colonial FF were advancing, appealed to their progressive ideology ... and they, like no others on earth, lent us money vital to our cause, for purely philisophical reasons. Jewish bankers, in the Hague, saving our bacon.

Boy does have the chap the behinds of the pointy-hat crowd. Hahahahahaha

 

[g5000]

This is not accurate. France is in financial trouble as it most other countries in Europe and even Germany is starting to slow down. You also should no our poor have bigger houses, more cars, more TVs, etc... that European middle class.

Remarkable overstatement. They are far from in trouble, and climbing out of the global economic downturn as well or better than most.

Here; educate yourself: France Economy Profile 2012

And what is France? Fifth or sixth largest economy, with relatively low population, and geographic area that's a friggin' postage stamp?

Not too shabby.

Educate yourself:

French business erupts in fury against "disastrous" François Hollande - Telegraph

Is France Really Spain in Disguise? - The Euro Crisis - WSJ


France's debt crisis could doom the European Union - CSMonitor.com


France has recently been enacting pre-emptive austerity measures to stave off going the way of Spain and Greece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/w...-synchronize-anti-austerity-strikes.html?_r=0

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0702/breaking29.html

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/28/world/europe/france-budget/index.html

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[Koios]

This is not accurate. France is in financial trouble as it most other countries in Europe and even Germany is starting to slow down. You also should no our poor have bigger houses, more cars, more TVs, etc... that European middle class.

Remarkable overstatement. They are far from in trouble, and climbing out of the global economic downturn as well or better than most.

Here; educate yourself: France Economy Profile 2012

And what is France? Fifth or sixth largest economy, with relatively low population, and geographic area that's a friggin' postage stamp?

Not too shabby.

Educate yourself:

French business erupts in fury against "disastrous" François Hollande - Telegraph

Is France Really Spain in Disguise? - The Euro Crisis - WSJ


France's debt crisis could doom the European Union - CSMonitor.com


France has recently been enacting pre-emptive austerity measures to stave off going the way of Spain and Greece.

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Let me know when France, with its growing economy goes under. K?

 

[g5000]

Let me know when France, with its growing economy goes under. K?

Okay. I will. Right now.

France's growth for last quarter was 0.2 percent. It had been projected to be zero, so 0.2 was thrilling news.

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[g5000]

The better-than-expected reports from Europe’s two largest economies weren’t enough to prevent the euro area from slipping into recession. The 17-nation economy contracted 0.1 percent in the third quarter after shrinking 0.2 percent in the second, the European Union’s statistics office said today.

“This was probably the last reasonably solid quarterly figure from Germany for a while,” said Joerg Kraemer, chief economist at Commerzbank AG in Frankfurt. “The steep fall in the leading indicators suggests that GDP will contract in the fourth quarter.”

German Growth Slows Less Than Forecast as French GDP Rises - SFGate[

 

[Oddball]

Let me know when France, with its growing economy goes under. K?

Okay. I will. Right now.

France's growth for last quarter was 0.2 percent. It had been projected to be zero, so 0.2 was thrilling news.

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France has the most closed markets and xenophobic economic policies in Europe, if not the world.

That anyone would hold them up as any kind of model of socialist success, speaks to their utter ignorance and economic illiteracy more so than anything else.

 

[g5000]

From the same link in my last post:

“The third quarter is probably the result of a temporary rebound at the European level,” said Michel Martinez, an economist at Societe Generale in Paris. Business sentiment surveys suggest the French economy “is heading to a moderate recession or at best remaining flat,” he said.

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[Koios]

And in case you're worried about the public debt, in France, here's a list of countries as a percent of their GDP ... top few, anyway:

 

[g5000]

And in case you're worried about the public debt, in France, here's a list of countries as a percent of their GDP ... top few, anyway:

France and Germany are both holding the debt of the collapsing countries.

Ignore the signs if you want, but fortunately you aren't running France. France is not ignoring the danger signals. As I said earlier, they see the handwriting on the wall and have been taking pre-emptive measures. They are trying to stave off seeing their borrowing costs rise.

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[Koios]

And in case you're worried about the public debt, in France, here's a list of countries as a percent of their GDP ... top few, anyway:

France and Germany are both holding the debt of the collapsing countries.

Ignore the signs if you want, but fortunately you aren't running France. France is not ignoring the danger signals. As I said earlier, they see the handwriting on the wall and have been taking pre-emptive measures. They are trying to stave off seeing their borrowing costs rise.

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Thanks. I think I will. Analyst's projections are what they are: educated guesses.

Thus I stick with what is. (all facts, no estimates) Growth, even slow growth, is not going under. And France's debt is far from unmanageable, given the size of its economy and depth of its national product.

It's not going away, nor will it become Greece 2.0. Not even close.

 

[miami_thomas]

This is not accurate. France is in financial trouble as it most other countries in Europe and even Germany is starting to slow down. You also should no our poor have bigger houses, more cars, more TVs, etc... that European middle class.

Remarkable overstatement. They are far from in trouble, and climbing out of the global economic downturn as well or better than most.

Here; educate yourself: France Economy Profile 2012

And what is France? Fifth or sixth largest economy, with relatively low population, and geographic area that's a friggin' postage stamp?

Not too shabby.

quote for the article I posted: "We expect the French economy to contract again in the final quarter of this year," said Joost Beaumont of ABN Amro.

 

[g5000]

Thanks. I think I will. Analyst's projections are what they are: educated guesses.

Thus I stick with what is. (all facts, no estimates) Growth, even slow growth, is not going under. And France's debt is far from unmanageable, given the size of its economy and depth of its national product.

It's not going away, nor will it become Greece 2.0. Not even close.

They were saying that about Spain last year.

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[Koios]

This is not accurate. France is in financial trouble as it most other countries in Europe and even Germany is starting to slow down. You also should no our poor have bigger houses, more cars, more TVs, etc... that European middle class.

Remarkable overstatement. They are far from in trouble, and climbing out of the global economic downturn as well or better than most.

Here; educate yourself: France Economy Profile 2012

And what is France? Fifth or sixth largest economy, with relatively low population, and geographic area that's a friggin' postage stamp?

Not too shabby.

quote for the article I posted: "We expect the French economy to contract again in the final quarter of this year," said Joost Beaumont of ABN Amro.

Didja pick up on that word, "expect?" Seems kinda speculative, yeah?

 

[miami_thomas]

And in case you're worried about the public debt, in France, here's a list of countries as a percent of their GDP ... top few, anyway:

France and Germany are both holding the debt of the collapsing countries.

Ignore the signs if you want, but fortunately you aren't running France. France is not ignoring the danger signals. As I said earlier, they see the handwriting on the wall and have been taking pre-emptive measures. They are trying to stave off seeing their borrowing costs rise.

.

Thanks. I think I will. Analyst's projections are what they are: educated guesses.

Thus I stick with what is. (all facts, no estimates) Growth, even slow growth, is not going under. And France's debt is far from unmanageable, given the size of its economy and depth of its national product.

It's not going away, nor will it become Greece 2.0. Not even close.

Quote regarding the economic power France published today.

We forecast that the French economy will be in recession around the turn of the year, seeing a 0.2% contraction in GDP during 2013. Domestic demand dynamics have been weakening for some time, amid rising unemployment, falling consumer confidence and a challenging picture for household disposable income.
[...]At the end of 2011, employee compensation amounted to 67.4% of gross value added in French industrial firms (up 6.7 ppt since 1999) compared to 59.9% in Germany (down 9.7ppt). A similar story emerges when comparing real unit labour costs. France has recorded an increase of 2.8ppt since 1Q 1999, while Germany has posted a decline of 2.3ppt (see Figure 3).
French employment levels have been largely stable in the last two-and-a-half years (up 0.7% since 4Q-09) despite a larger gain in GDP worth around 3% (see Figure 4). Among other things, this relationship suggests that the labour market lacks flexibility. While productivity remains elevated, growth in the working age population means that an increasing number of potential workers are struggling to find jobs. Some categories such as the under 25s have been affected disproportionately: youth unemployment has risen by nearly 25k since the end of 2009, with a jobless rate of 22.7% in 2Q 2012 vs. only 8.1% in Germany.

Debt crisis: as it happened, November 16, 2012 - Telegraph

 

[Koios]

France and Germany are both holding the debt of the collapsing countries.

Ignore the signs if you want, but fortunately you aren't running France. France is not ignoring the danger signals. As I said earlier, they see the handwriting on the wall and have been taking pre-emptive measures. They are trying to stave off seeing their borrowing costs rise.

.

Thanks. I think I will. Analyst's projections are what they are: educated guesses.

Thus I stick with what is. (all facts, no estimates) Growth, even slow growth, is not going under. And France's debt is far from unmanageable, given the size of its economy and depth of its national product.

It's not going away, nor will it become Greece 2.0. Not even close.

Quote regarding the economic power France published today.

We forecast that the French economy will be in recession around the turn of the year, seeing a 0.2% contraction in GDP during 2013. Domestic demand dynamics have been weakening for some time, amid rising unemployment, falling consumer confidence and a challenging picture for household disposable income.
[...]At the end of 2011, employee compensation amounted to 67.4% of gross value added in French industrial firms (up 6.7 ppt since 1999) compared to 59.9% in Germany (down 9.7ppt). A similar story emerges when comparing real unit labour costs. France has recorded an increase of 2.8ppt since 1Q 1999, while Germany has posted a decline of 2.3ppt (see Figure 3).
French employment levels have been largely stable in the last two-and-a-half years (up 0.7% since 4Q-09) despite a larger gain in GDP worth around 3% (see Figure 4). Among other things, this relationship suggests that the labour market lacks flexibility. While productivity remains elevated, growth in the working age population means that an increasing number of potential workers are struggling to find jobs. Some categories such as the under 25s have been affected disproportionately: youth unemployment has risen by nearly 25k since the end of 2009, with a jobless rate of 22.7% in 2Q 2012 vs. only 8.1% in Germany.

Debt crisis: as it happened, November 16, 2012 - Telegraph

Let me know when forecasts prove accurate, or don't. We can pick it up from there.

Thanks in advance,

-K

 

[ilia25]

It's feeling circular and a cold beer and dinner out awaits. So I'll go with the easy answer: certs me. You win.

Have a good night.

You too. Enjoy your beer responsibly

Made it safely to dinner and back. One beer, it seems, is not over my limit. But thanks for having my back on that.

Meanwhile, why size matters:

Consider China, and its willingness to up the amount we're borrowing from them: With the US being its #1 customer, by a huge margin, and thus vital to China's continuing growth, which is slowing now that other, even lower-cost producers, are entering the market, what would the impact on China be if it allowed us to slip into economic disaster, or even a significant slump? Pretty devistating to China; yeah?

So they'll do everything they can to keep us afloat, economically. Other countries will, too, since the world's #1 economy, to them, equals: Their best customer, and vital to their success in making and selling stuff.

Does that bring it into focus?

1) You assume that China buying the US helps to keep us afloat -- and that is not true. China buys dollars by truckloads to keep its currency artificially low and there aren't many places when you can park a trillion -- the US government debt is one of them. But on the whole, Chinese policy is bad for the US economy.
2) It is not just US. Every developed country that borrows in its own currency can do so at historically low rates. Some of them are more in debt than US, and all of them are smaller. So there in nothing exceptional in the US situation.
3) The only developed countries that can't borrow at low rates are all located in eurozone periphery. You think that is a coincidence?

 

[Kimura]

Austerity measures don't work in the midst of an economic depression/recession. Greece is a perfect example: the more the Greeks cut, the deeper they go into an economic breakdown crisis. When you cut salaries and lay people off, even in the state sector, you decrease tax receipts and tax revenue. People also have way less money to purchase goods and services. It's sad the Greeks were sold out by their corrupt leaders to pay back a bunch of French and German bondholders and banks. We're witnessing a form of genocide in real time.

 

[ilia25]

What you don't get, or outright refuse to acknowledge (my bet is on the latter), is the reason that they can borrow at such low rates is that the banksters at the Fed are still keeping rates artificially low, which is exactly the root cause of the housing bubble in the first place.

You a wrong -- there is no such thing as natural rates. The rates are always set by the Fed according to its policy goals. Right now the economy is under-performing, so the Fed sets the rates low. And no, we are not experiencing a housing bubble.

 

[Koios]

You too. Enjoy your beer responsibly

Made it safely to dinner and back. One beer, it seems, is not over my limit. But thanks for having my back on that.

Meanwhile, why size matters:

Consider China, and its willingness to up the amount we're borrowing from them: With the US being its #1 customer, by a huge margin, and thus vital to China's continuing growth, which is slowing now that other, even lower-cost producers, are entering the market, what would the impact on China be if it allowed us to slip into economic disaster, or even a significant slump? Pretty devistating to China; yeah?

So they'll do everything they can to keep us afloat, economically. Other countries will, too, since the world's #1 economy, to them, equals: Their best customer, and vital to their success in making and selling stuff.

Does that bring it into focus?

1) You assume that China buying the US helps to keep us afloat -- and that is not true. China buys dollars by truckloads to keep its currency artificially low and there aren't many places when you can park a trillion -- the US government debt is one of them. But on the whole, Chinese policy is bad for the US economy.
2) It is not just US. Every developed country that borrows in its own currency can do so at historically low rates. Some of them are more in debt than US, and all of them are smaller. So there in nothing exceptional in the US situation.
3) The only developed countries that can't borrow at low rates are all located in eurozone periphery. You think that is a coincidence?

1) I do not assume that nor did I state it.

1a) China manipulates its currency, as all countries do. Thus I think it's a hypocritical gripe on the part of the US. JMO.

2) I was merely stating why size matters. Have you additional questions in that regard, or was what I described sufficient.

3) No. Nor do I think it's true. What is the source of your information, or can you better explain it yourself? Either works for me. TIA

 

[ilia25]

Interest rates can only stay low as long as people are willing to buy the treasuries at those low rates. Eventually the rates will go back up.

Yes -- they will go back up when the economy recovers from depression. But the recovery will also bring up the government revenues, reducing the budget deficit to pre-crisis levels.

That is why the US is safe. You can have big deficits and low rates when the economy is week. You can have high rates and small deficit when the economy is booming. But you can't have big deficits and high rates -- not at the current level of government spending.