Europes economic collapse

[Machiavelli]

It is primarily due to how they made their system. They actually modeled it after our system of many states being part of a nation. Then they gave it one currency and introduced socialism. Now this has led to them having a collapse in Greece and Italy due to them being the weaker countries. Since those citizens are asking for more for less and expecting more then the other citizens and all the countries have different policies for retirement, money is being given out unevenly. Now since we have universal ages and roughly equal minimum wage we do not run into this problem at all or very infrequently. Now they are collapsing since the stronger countries are having to bail out the weaker ones and results in all of them being weakened. This cycle will continue and will. A painful collapse of Europes economy unless they do something.

 

[Truthmatters]

It was our mess that caused this to them.

The Bush team crashed the entire world economy.

 

[Machiavelli]

No bush did no such thing. They decided to adopt the euro of their own accord did you not read my article. Anyway how did Bush do anything to hurt the worlds economy?

 

[Truthmatters]

hey bonehead.

they tanked because they were invested in our markets

 

[Mr. H.]

hey bonehead.

they tanked because they were invested in our markets

And where have we been investing?
It's a world economy.

 

[Kyo]

We need to spend "our" money on improving the quality of the US, not other countries.

 

[Political Junky]

Europe is suffering because of a tightening of the purse strings. This is the path recommended by the GOP leaders here in the US.

 

[Wiseacre]

Europe's problem is that they instituted socialist policies that they can't pay for. They raised taxes but it wasn't enough and they went deep into debt. Now they've reached the point where the hole they're in is too deep, and they're left with only a few options, all of which are bad. And we're going down the same shithole and you birdbrains want to keep doing the same things.

 

[PeteEU]

Europe's problem is that they instituted socialist policies that they can't pay for. They raised taxes but it wasn't enough and they went deep into debt. Now they've reached the point where the hole they're in is too deep, and they're left with only a few options, all of which are bad. And we're going down the same shithole and you birdbrains want to keep doing the same things.

LOL what a load of horseshit.

It has nothing to do with "Socialist" policies in most countries, but with structural problems that hit the labour market and tax collecting areas and other areas. But each country has a different problem.

Greece's problem is not not overspending, it is lack of tax revenue. Their tax system is basically a tip box in the corner of an office. Tax evasion is huge in Greece (60+% of people) which results in lower tax income and higher deficits. If people actually paid their taxes as they should, Greece would have a budget surplus .. a large one. Personal Greek debt is low too btw.

Italy's problem is lack of growth due to labour and business structural problems. They have "closed" areas of the economy where you need permission to start up a business.. lawyers, accountants, taxi drivers and so on which causes little growth. Personal Italian debt is low

Spain was far too reliant on the building sector and when that crashed thanks to Bush and America, then the pain hit. Fact is Spain had a budget surplus in 2008. Fact is Spain's national debt is the lowest in the industrialised world. Spain has structural problems in the labour market (too hard to fire people) causing a lack of hiring.. this and other things in the labour market causes a structural unemployment of 10%.. meaning 10% unemployment would be "full employment" in Spain... Add to that an over-all restructuring that takes years and you have the Spanish "problem".

Ireland drank the US cool-aid juice. They borrowed to expand and consume, both at a national level and personal level. If there is a country in serious trouble then it is Ireland but people are ignoring it. Not only is the government in huge debt, so is the private sector and the people (personal) of Ireland.. a very very bad combo.

The big elephant in the room is the UK though.. no one wants to talk about that.. If Ireland goes belly up, then the UK will need to nationalise even more banks and take on 250 billion pounds plus in extra debt over night. And considering the deficit has barely budged since Cameron started his austerity drive, and devaluing the pound has done nothing to improve the situation.. then well...

But the whole situation would be much less of a problem if we had just minimal growth in the European economy. Italy and Greece for example has a primarily surplus.. so any growth in the economy would increase tax income and turn the deficit into a surplus. Many countries are in the same situation or near that situation.

And in the end, all of this would not have been a problem if it had not been for the US sub-prime crisis and the world economic crisis that the US created. This crisis drove growth and tax returns down, which created deficits and that freaked out certain big banks since now they needed a new source of big income since they could not deal in sub-prime trash any more.. so they saw an easy mark by driving whole economies off the edge and get COD income out of it... after all they have been helping hide debt for some nations for years....

The ironic thing is that if Greece and other countries default, then the CODs are activated, and guess who pays those? The US Tax Payer, since they own AIG. And guess who gets that money? The very same fucking banks that caused the fucking problem in the first place with their toxic assets and sub-prime lending!!!!!!!!!

No what the European countries should do is to create growth and not bend to the market pressures that are claiming that their debt is too high.. most nations have had the same amount of debt for many decades so it is nothing new. We need growth not austerity .. once growth is back in the economy, and the private sector is making jobs, then we can start to do austerity in the public sector.

 

[editec]

Yes, the the bond market is fleeing from sovereign debt of Greece, Spain, Portugel, and Ireland.

I can't see any solution to this problem.

Well, that isn't entirely true.

But the "solution" is going to mean that the bond holders are going to take a serious haircut.

And since the bond holders are banks, pension funds, insurance companies that doesn't suggest happy times are here again for the world's economy.

Here's one of the things I think we can all count on.

Unpayable debts will NOT get paid.

 

[Wiseacre]

Europe's problem is that they instituted socialist policies that they can't pay for. They raised taxes but it wasn't enough and they went deep into debt. Now they've reached the point where the hole they're in is too deep, and they're left with only a few options, all of which are bad. And we're going down the same shithole and you birdbrains want to keep doing the same things.

LOL what a load of horseshit.

It has nothing to do with "Socialist" policies in most countries, but with structural problems that hit the labour market and tax collecting areas and other areas. But each country has a different problem.

Greece's problem is not not overspending, it is lack of tax revenue. Their tax system is basically a tip box in the corner of an office. Tax evasion is huge in Greece (60+% of people) which results in lower tax income and higher deficits. If people actually paid their taxes as they should, Greece would have a budget surplus .. a large one. Personal Greek debt is low too btw.

Italy's problem is lack of growth due to labour and business structural problems. They have "closed" areas of the economy where you need permission to start up a business.. lawyers, accountants, taxi drivers and so on which causes little growth. Personal Italian debt is low

Spain was far too reliant on the building sector and when that crashed thanks to Bush and America, then the pain hit. Fact is Spain had a budget surplus in 2008. Fact is Spain's national debt is the lowest in the industrialised world. Spain has structural problems in the labour market (too hard to fire people) causing a lack of hiring.. this and other things in the labour market causes a structural unemployment of 10%.. meaning 10% unemployment would be "full employment" in Spain... Add to that an over-all restructuring that takes years and you have the Spanish "problem".

Ireland drank the US cool-aid juice. They borrowed to expand and consume, both at a national level and personal level. If there is a country in serious trouble then it is Ireland but people are ignoring it. Not only is the government in huge debt, so is the private sector and the people (personal) of Ireland.. a very very bad combo.

The big elephant in the room is the UK though.. no one wants to talk about that.. If Ireland goes belly up, then the UK will need to nationalise even more banks and take on 250 billion pounds plus in extra debt over night. And considering the deficit has barely budged since Cameron started his austerity drive, and devaluing the pound has done nothing to improve the situation.. then well...

But the whole situation would be much less of a problem if we had just minimal growth in the European economy. Italy and Greece for example has a primarily surplus.. so any growth in the economy would increase tax income and turn the deficit into a surplus. Many countries are in the same situation or near that situation.

And in the end, all of this would not have been a problem if it had not been for the US sub-prime crisis and the world economic crisis that the US created. This crisis drove growth and tax returns down, which created deficits and that freaked out certain big banks since now they needed a new source of big income since they could not deal in sub-prime trash any more.. so they saw an easy mark by driving whole economies off the edge and get COD income out of it... after all they have been helping hide debt for some nations for years....

The ironic thing is that if Greece and other countries default, then the CODs are activated, and guess who pays those? The US Tax Payer, since they own AIG. And guess who gets that money? The very same fucking banks that caused the fucking problem in the first place with their toxic assets and sub-prime lending!!!!!!!!!

No what the European countries should do is to create growth and not bend to the market pressures that are claiming that their debt is too high.. most nations have had the same amount of debt for many decades so it is nothing new. We need growth not austerity .. once growth is back in the economy, and the private sector is making jobs, then we can start to do austerity in the public sector.

You understand why most of the European countries are in such dire straits? It's because they implemented these extravagant socialist policies that they couldn't pay for even in the best of times. They raised taxes and choked off economic growth as a result.

A much greater percentage of their workforce is in the public sector; they don't have enough people producing something. Their populations are aging and they don't have the influx of more young people to carry the burden. Too many people on the dole, it's only a matter of time until they and we reach a point where everything collapses.

 

[Political Junky]

Germany is doing better than most of Europe because they didn't cut jobs. Instead they cut hours worked so that more people had jobs and money to put into their economy.
Austerity doesn't work .. they proved it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It was our mess that caused this to them.

The Bush team crashed the entire world economy.

How can one person be so stupid?

 

[Political Junky]

It was our mess that caused this to them.

The Bush team crashed the entire world economy.

How can one person be so stupid?

I've often wondered that about W, too.

 

[Jos]

Illinois In Throes Of Debt Crisis Worse Than Greece

As the Greek default (and it is a default no matter what they end up calling it) is finalized this week, the consensus seems to be that failure to reach a deal would cause a global financial apocalypse.

That may be true. And if it is, why aren’t we more worried about Illinois? It’s more or less the same size as Greece, its finances are in the same generally catastrophic shape, and its leaders are just as feckless and dishonest. It owes tens of billions of dollars to various investors and stakeholders and will clearly have to stiff many of them at some point. The following article captures the “failed state” dilemma perfectly.

The question isn’t whether Illinois’ finances are in dreadful shape, it’s how to fix the problem. Or perhaps more accurately, will legislators have the political will to fix it when they return to Springfield for their spring session?

Even though the legislature and Gov. Pat Quinn last year imposed a temporary 67 percent state income tax increase, Quinn’s office expects to have a $500 million budget deficit this year.

Quinn is calling for a 9 percent cut in most areas of state government, except education and health care. But even with cuts at that level, the state would have a projected $800 million budget deficit for fiscal 2015, the year when most of the tax hike expires.

Quinn’s budget spokesman, Kelly Kraft, said the state’s fiscal situation is not pretty.

“These projections clearly demonstrate that action must be taken to control not only Medicaid costs but also (pension) costs, or all other areas of government will continue to be squeezed,” Kraft said.

Looking at the bigger picture, the state has a backlog of about $8.5 billion in unpaid bills and owes about $27 billion in outstanding bonds. And then there’s the roughly $80 billion owed to the state’s public employee pension funds.

Illinois In Throes Of Debt Crisis Worse Than Greece : Kevin Trudeau Show

 

[52ndStreet]

It is primarily due to how they made their system. They actually modeled it after our system of many states being part of a nation. Then they gave it one currency and introduced socialism. Now this has led to them having a collapse in Greece and Italy due to them being the weaker countries. Since those citizens are asking for more for less and expecting more then the other citizens and all the countries have different policies for retirement, money is being given out unevenly. Now since we have universal ages and roughly equal minimum wage we do not run into this problem at all or very infrequently. Now they are collapsing since the stronger countries are having to bail out the weaker ones and results in all of them being weakened. This cycle will continue and will. A painful collapse of Europes economy unless they do something.

The main problem with Europe is that they accept a lot of government hand outs, and no one
pays their fair share of Taxes. Thus , you will eventually have a huge debt situation on your governmet budgets. Europe was just fine before the Euro , and the European union. Each country was responsible for their own economic situation, each country had its own currency,
and had to manage their own individual dept. The British saw this mess coming years ago. Thats
why they never surrendered the British pound.! or joined the European union, fully.
Europe should return to their old format, and forget about the European union and the Euro.\
It is a failed system , domed to collaspe.!!