Europes economic collapse

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Machiavelli, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. Machiavelli
    Offline

    Machiavelli Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Thanks Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +8
    It is primarily due to how they made their system. They actually modeled it after our system of many states being part of a nation. Then they gave it one currency and introduced socialism. Now this has led to them having a collapse in Greece and Italy due to them being the weaker countries. Since those citizens are asking for more for less and expecting more then the other citizens and all the countries have different policies for retirement, money is being given out unevenly. Now since we have universal ages and roughly equal minimum wage we do not run into this problem at all or very infrequently. Now they are collapsing since the stronger countries are having to bail out the weaker ones and results in all of them being weakened. This cycle will continue and will. A painful collapse of Europes economy unless they do something.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    It was our mess that caused this to them.

    The Bush team crashed the entire world economy.
     
  3. Machiavelli
    Offline

    Machiavelli Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Thanks Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +8
    No bush did no such thing. They decided to adopt the euro of their own accord did you not read my article. Anyway how did Bush do anything to hurt the worlds economy?
     
  4. Truthmatters
    Offline

    Truthmatters BANNED

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    80,182
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2,233
    hey bonehead.

    they tanked because they were invested in our markets
     
  5. Mr. H.
    Offline

    Mr. H. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Messages:
    44,104
    Thanks Received:
    9,264
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    A warm place with no memory.
    Ratings:
    +15,387
    And where have we been investing?
    It's a world economy.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Kyo
    Offline

    Kyo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2
    We need to spend "our" money on improving the quality of the US, not other countries.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  7. Political Junky
    Offline

    Political Junky Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    19,542
    Thanks Received:
    2,948
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Ratings:
    +5,534
    Europe is suffering because of a tightening of the purse strings. This is the path recommended by the GOP leaders here in the US.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. Wiseacre
    Offline

    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    6,025
    Thanks Received:
    1,192
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    Europe's problem is that they instituted socialist policies that they can't pay for. They raised taxes but it wasn't enough and they went deep into debt. Now they've reached the point where the hole they're in is too deep, and they're left with only a few options, all of which are bad. And we're going down the same shithole and you birdbrains want to keep doing the same things.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. PeteEU
    Offline

    PeteEU VIP Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    329
    Thanks Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Malaga region, Spain
    Ratings:
    +54
    LOL what a load of horseshit.

    It has nothing to do with "Socialist" policies in most countries, but with structural problems that hit the labour market and tax collecting areas and other areas. But each country has a different problem.

    Greece's problem is not not overspending, it is lack of tax revenue. Their tax system is basically a tip box in the corner of an office. Tax evasion is huge in Greece (60+% of people) which results in lower tax income and higher deficits. If people actually paid their taxes as they should, Greece would have a budget surplus .. a large one. Personal Greek debt is low too btw.

    Italy's problem is lack of growth due to labour and business structural problems. They have "closed" areas of the economy where you need permission to start up a business.. lawyers, accountants, taxi drivers and so on which causes little growth. Personal Italian debt is low

    Spain was far too reliant on the building sector and when that crashed thanks to Bush and America, then the pain hit. Fact is Spain had a budget surplus in 2008. Fact is Spain's national debt is the lowest in the industrialised world. Spain has structural problems in the labour market (too hard to fire people) causing a lack of hiring.. this and other things in the labour market causes a structural unemployment of 10%.. meaning 10% unemployment would be "full employment" in Spain... Add to that an over-all restructuring that takes years and you have the Spanish "problem".

    Ireland drank the US cool-aid juice. They borrowed to expand and consume, both at a national level and personal level. If there is a country in serious trouble then it is Ireland but people are ignoring it. Not only is the government in huge debt, so is the private sector and the people (personal) of Ireland.. a very very bad combo.

    The big elephant in the room is the UK though.. no one wants to talk about that.. If Ireland goes belly up, then the UK will need to nationalise even more banks and take on 250 billion pounds plus in extra debt over night. And considering the deficit has barely budged since Cameron started his austerity drive, and devaluing the pound has done nothing to improve the situation.. then well...

    But the whole situation would be much less of a problem if we had just minimal growth in the European economy. Italy and Greece for example has a primarily surplus.. so any growth in the economy would increase tax income and turn the deficit into a surplus. Many countries are in the same situation or near that situation.

    And in the end, all of this would not have been a problem if it had not been for the US sub-prime crisis and the world economic crisis that the US created. This crisis drove growth and tax returns down, which created deficits and that freaked out certain big banks since now they needed a new source of big income since they could not deal in sub-prime trash any more.. so they saw an easy mark by driving whole economies off the edge and get COD income out of it... after all they have been helping hide debt for some nations for years....

    The ironic thing is that if Greece and other countries default, then the CODs are activated, and guess who pays those? The US Tax Payer, since they own AIG. And guess who gets that money? The very same fucking banks that caused the fucking problem in the first place with their toxic assets and sub-prime lending!!!!!!!!!

    No what the European countries should do is to create growth and not bend to the market pressures that are claiming that their debt is too high.. most nations have had the same amount of debt for many decades so it is nothing new. We need growth not austerity .. once growth is back in the economy, and the private sector is making jobs, then we can start to do austerity in the public sector.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  10. editec
    Offline

    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    41,427
    Thanks Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Maine
    Ratings:
    +5,617
    Yes, the the bond market is fleeing from sovereign debt of Greece, Spain, Portugel, and Ireland.

    I can't see any solution to this problem.

    Well, that isn't entirely true.

    But the "solution" is going to mean that the bond holders are going to take a serious haircut.

    And since the bond holders are banks, pension funds, insurance companies that doesn't suggest happy times are here again for the world's economy.

    Here's one of the things I think we can all count on.

    Unpayable debts will NOT get paid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012

Share This Page