European elections: Remain triumphant

[Tommy Tainant]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

 

[Olde Europe]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

Here's your author's catastrophic error:

But the elections answered one interesting question: What is Farage's top limit? After all, what more beneficial scenario could there be? Brexit dominates the news cycle, the Tories are dead, no politician seems able to take him on, and he is fighting European elections, in which he always over-performs next to general elections. In that ideal scenario, this is what he gets: A third of the vote. That's his upper potential.​

There cannot just be, there WILL be, a more beneficial scenario, in case they, after having received a fair warning, still won't deliver on Brexit. With more haggling and horse trading, and still no Brexit getting done, as mandated by the referendum, Britons' anger will rise to white-hot levels. Also, there is not, and will not be, a credible Remain leader anywhere in sight.

The next election will be FPTP, of course. With the Brexit Party rising just a bit, and Labour, Tories, LibDems, and a few smaller parties dividing up the rest, Farage may well sweep the general election with the possible exception of Scotland (no clue as to the results in NI).

And yes, I know it's going to be a General Election, not a European one. I'd rather warn against the hope that the pattern of UKIP under-performing in general elections will hold for the Brexit Party after 3+ years of Brexit haggling.

 

[Oddball]

We just love us some 'mocracy, until it gives to us a result that we don't like...Then the voters are stupid.

And the leftists are shocked when they get called out for being elitist snobs.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

Here's your author's catastrophic error:

But the elections answered one interesting question: What is Farage's top limit? After all, what more beneficial scenario could there be? Brexit dominates the news cycle, the Tories are dead, no politician seems able to take him on, and he is fighting European elections, in which he always over-performs next to general elections. In that ideal scenario, this is what he gets: A third of the vote. That's his upper potential.​

There cannot just be, there WILL be, a more beneficial scenario, in case they, after having received a fair warning, still won't deliver on Brexit. With more haggling and horse trading, and still no Brexit getting done, as mandated by the referendum, Britons' anger will rise to white-hot levels. Also, there is not, and will not be, a credible Remain leader anywhere in sight.

The next election will be FPTP, of course. With the Brexit Party rising just a bit, and Labour, Tories, LibDems, and a few smaller parties dividing up the rest, Farage may well sweep the general election with the possible exception of Scotland (no clue as to the results in NI).

And yes, I know it's going to be a General Election, not a European one. I'd rather warn against the hope that the pattern of UKIP under-performing in general elections will hold for the Brexit Party after 3+ years of Brexit haggling.

They had their chance in this election and they came up short.

 

[theHawk]

The title of this thread should be “European Elections: Remain Oblivious”.

The nationalists keep gaining all across Europe. The poor globalists, Marxists, and Islamist-lovers like the OP just can’t accept reality.

 

[HenryBHough]

Now the countdown to Red Jeremy's anointment as PM begins.

Right, Oh Tainted One?

 

[Olde Europe]

They had their chance in this election and they came up short.

"They" would be who? And they had a chance to do what, exactly?

Tell you what, Tommy, as much as I'd like to see Britain reverse itself, and become an ardent pro-EU state, that ain't gonna happen. It plainly won't. Identifiable pro-EU parties did not garner a majority of the vote. Moreover, an election which half of Britons found pointless because they expect these MEPs to be recalled in short order, anyway, isn't very indicative of anything.

If the politicians work to reverse the referendum result, hell will break loose. You can bet the house on that. And that's the dynamic you refuse to take in account, as well as the panic over it among Tory and Labour politicians. The next Tory leader will be a Brexiteer, most likely more hard-core than May; Corbyn is a Brexiteer. They will cook something up, and push it through, and I fear it won't please either you or me. The reason why this is going to happen is because they justifiably fear to be ploughed asunder in case they fail to deliver.

Of course, the standard disclaimer - my predictions have been wrong before - is in order. I've yet to see a good counter-argument, though, one that would amount to more than wishful thinking and number-rigging.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

The fact is that the Brexit disaster is going to happen, it’s just a matter of how bad it will be.

Indeed, the disaster was to decide such an important matter by referendum – a foolish and idiotic mistake – rather than by the informed deliberation of representative democracy.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

They had their chance in this election and they came up short.

"They" would be who? And they had a chance to do what, exactly?

Tell you what, Tommy, as much as I'd like to see Britain reverse itself, and become an ardent pro-EU state, that ain't gonna happen. It plainly won't. Identifiable pro-EU parties did not garner a majority of the vote. Moreover, an election which half of Britons found pointless because they expect these MEPs to be recalled in short order, anyway, isn't very indicative of anything.

If the politicians work to reverse the referendum result, hell will break loose. You can bet the house on that. And that's the dynamic you refuse to take in account, as well as the panic over it among Tory and Labour politicians. The next Tory leader will be a Brexiteer, most likely more hard-core than May; Corbyn is a Brexiteer. They will cook something up, and push it through, and I fear it won't please either you or me. The reason why this is going to happen is because they justifiably fear to be ploughed asunder in case they fail to deliver.

Of course, the standard disclaimer - my predictions have been wrong before - is in order. I've yet to see a good counter-argument, though, one that would amount to more than wishful thinking and number-rigging.

I really cant see it like that. Corbyn is already shifting behind a second referendum and the voices around him have more authority after the kicking they got. At some point soon a brake will be put on brexit and it will have to go back to the people.
the prospective tory leaders are not people who can unite the party and so the "government" will continue to be impotent.

Crashing out on wto will not be allowed to happen,

The next prime minister will be forced to either call an election or a referendum. More likely they will be instructed to do so.

I just cant see away through it for the frothers.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

The fact is that the Brexit disaster is going to happen, it’s just a matter of how bad it will be.

Indeed, the disaster was to decide such an important matter by referendum – a foolish and idiotic mistake – rather than by the informed deliberation of representative democracy.

The referendum was called to silence tory dissent. A complete act of idiocy. But I still cant see a way out for the brexits. They dont have the numbers in the house and their support is dwindling in the country.

 

[Oddball]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

The fact is that the Brexit disaster is going to happen, it’s just a matter of how bad it will be.

Indeed, the disaster was to decide such an important matter by referendum – a foolish and idiotic mistake – rather than by the informed deliberation of representative democracy.

There really is no end to the unvarnished snobbery of the left, is there?

 

[Olde Europe]

I really cant see it like that. Corbyn is already shifting behind a second referendum and the voices around him have more authority after the kicking they got. At some point soon a brake will be put on brexit and it will have to go back to the people.
the prospective tory leaders are not people who can unite the party and so the "government" will continue to be impotent.

Crashing out on wto will not be allowed to happen,

The next prime minister will be forced to either call an election or a referendum. More likely they will be instructed to do so.

I just cant see away through it for the frothers.

I see your point, and entirely unreasonable it is not. On the other hand, nothing focuses the minds of, and unites, a bunch of self-serving divas better than fear of imminent, catastrophic loss. How anyone can set out to have another referendum, so shortly after the last experience with same, wolf its way through the country is beyond me. Honestly, that I cannot see.

 

[HenryBHough]

It takes a sincerely devoted masochist to embrace servitude to sadistic masters in Brussels!

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you.....Tainted Tommy!
Congratulatioins, Tommy, on your deep devotion.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I really cant see it like that. Corbyn is already shifting behind a second referendum and the voices around him have more authority after the kicking they got. At some point soon a brake will be put on brexit and it will have to go back to the people.
the prospective tory leaders are not people who can unite the party and so the "government" will continue to be impotent.

Crashing out on wto will not be allowed to happen,

The next prime minister will be forced to either call an election or a referendum. More likely they will be instructed to do so.

I just cant see away through it for the frothers.

I see your point, and entirely unreasonable it is not. On the other hand, nothing focuses the minds of, and unites, a bunch of self-serving divas better than fear of imminent, catastrophic loss. How anyone can set out to have another referendum, so shortly after the last experience with same, wolf its way through the country is beyond me. Honestly, that I cannot see.

I would prefer not to have another referendum but its not fair to have politicos reverse the result of a previous referendum. It has to go to the people.Its all good.

 

[Bleipriester]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

Are you sure? I have other information.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

Are you sure? I have other information.

The first pic looks accurate but I have no idea where the brexit supporting Bow Group got their figures from for the second chart. It doesnt correlate to anything else that I have seen.

Remainers won these elections – and they’d win a second Brexit referendum | Polly Toynbee

In these elections remain was the winner, not Farage. What mattered beyond the number of seats won was the sum of remain votes. Lib Dem, Green, Scottish National party, Plaid Cymru and Change UK outpolled Brexit and Ukip by 40.4% remain to 34.9% hard Brexit. Now add in Labour and Conservative votes, divided – as pollsters Britain Thinks and YouGov suggest– by allocating 80% of Tory votes to leave, and 60% of Labour votes to remain. That suggests a remain win in a referendum by 50% to 47%. Certain? Of course not – it’s close – but this three-point remain majority certainly makes it a democratic outrage to press ahead with any kind of Brexit without giving voters the final say. And what is not in doubt is that there’s a clear majority against a no-deal Brexit.

 

[Bleipriester]

European elections: Remain triumphant

After weeks of wall-to-wall coverage of the Brexiters - be it Nigel Farage or the circus of Tory leadership candidates - it was Remain which came out triumphant in the end. The Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, Plaid and Change UK vote share, so far, was 40.4%. The Brexit party and Ukip together was 34.9%.

If you - rather crudely, but not altogether unfairly - add the Labour vote to Remain and the Brexit vote to the Tories, it comes out even starker. Just 44% for Brexit parties and 54.5% for Remain parties.

The question now is how do the remain parties harness this momentum to stop the brexit disaster from happening.

It all comes back to parliament and labours position. They need to look at the pasting they have been given and get behind a second referendum.

Labour,SNP,Plaid,Greens,Change and the Libs - together with dissident tories can take control of this process and work together to save the country from disaster.

The only group against them will spend the next two months trying to stab each other in the back. Corbyn needs to listen to the people because we have spoken.

Are you sure? I have other information.

The first pic looks accurate but I have no idea where the brexit supporting Bow Group got their figures from for the second chart. It doesnt correlate to anything else that I have seen.

Remainers won these elections – and they’d win a second Brexit referendum | Polly Toynbee

In these elections remain was the winner, not Farage. What mattered beyond the number of seats won was the sum of remain votes. Lib Dem, Green, Scottish National party, Plaid Cymru and Change UK outpolled Brexit and Ukip by 40.4% remain to 34.9% hard Brexit. Now add in Labour and Conservative votes, divided – as pollsters Britain Thinks and YouGov suggest– by allocating 80% of Tory votes to leave, and 60% of Labour votes to remain. That suggests a remain win in a referendum by 50% to 47%. Certain? Of course not – it’s close – but this three-point remain majority certainly makes it a democratic outrage to press ahead with any kind of Brexit without giving voters the final say. And what is not in doubt is that there’s a clear majority against a no-deal Brexit.

So it is more or less subject to interpretation, who won, given the fact that the new Brexit party is the single largest winner of the elections and by far.
And if you ask me the voters already had the final say, referendums should only take place once.
By the way: I just googled that Bow Group. They are a "conservative think tank", not neutral. So this cake cannot be trusted.