European Assault on Freedom of Speech.

[ding]

Okay, Hitler was a disaster, Stalin was a disaster, Pol Pot was a disaster. What's your point? Because they all demanded conformity, therefore it was a disaster.

My point is that opposition to them was eliminated. How else do you think they forced uniformity?

Look at the US. You have the pledge of allegiance in schools, you have the flag everywhere, the anthem, you have right wingers bitching and moaning about people kneeling at football games during the anthem, you have people who are like "we're not shopping in your store if you make a comment about our guns", it happens on both sides, but the right does it too.

Are you saying the US is a disaster?

There is little doubt that our love of the material has eroded our moral courage, but we still allow opposition. So there is still hope for us.

You probably believe that I will blindly agree with anyone who says they believe in God, but my actions on these boards say otherwise, and I'm not talking about disagreements over dogma. I believe there is just as much danger from conformity from my side of the coin as there is from your side of the coin. To be a sound society there needs to be opposition. We both serve a purpose... keeping each other honest.

Maybe the biggest threat to humanity is amorality. At least while I don't agree with you on the solutions to our problems, I recognize you do stand for something and you believe you are being a force for good. I believe you are too.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Okay, Hitler was a disaster, Stalin was a disaster, Pol Pot was a disaster. What's your point? Because they all demanded conformity, therefore it was a disaster.

My point is that opposition to them was eliminated. How else do you think they forced uniformity?

Look at the US. You have the pledge of allegiance in schools, you have the flag everywhere, the anthem, you have right wingers bitching and moaning about people kneeling at football games during the anthem, you have people who are like "we're not shopping in your store if you make a comment about our guns", it happens on both sides, but the right does it too.

Are you saying the US is a disaster?

There is little doubt that our love of the material has eroded our moral courage, but we still allow opposition. So there is still hope for us.

You probably believe that I will blindly agree with anyone who says they believe in God, but my actions on these boards say otherwise, and I'm not talking about disagreements over dogma. I believe there is just as much danger from conformity from my side of the coin as there is from your side of the coin. To be a sound society there needs to be opposition. We both serve a purpose... keeping each other honest.

Maybe the biggest threat to humanity is amorality. At least while I don't agree with you on the solutions to our problems, I recognize you do stand for something and you believe you are being a force for good. I believe you are too.

So, it's not uniformity that's the problem, it's destroying opposition?

Well, I'd agree with that.

The US has basically managed that, you have two political parties who basically don't represent the people, they scratch each other's backs and have their policies which "define" them to make it look like they're different.

Everyone's fighting over that, and not over the real issues.

 

[ding]

Okay, Hitler was a disaster, Stalin was a disaster, Pol Pot was a disaster. What's your point? Because they all demanded conformity, therefore it was a disaster.

My point is that opposition to them was eliminated. How else do you think they forced uniformity?

Look at the US. You have the pledge of allegiance in schools, you have the flag everywhere, the anthem, you have right wingers bitching and moaning about people kneeling at football games during the anthem, you have people who are like "we're not shopping in your store if you make a comment about our guns", it happens on both sides, but the right does it too.

Are you saying the US is a disaster?

There is little doubt that our love of the material has eroded our moral courage, but we still allow opposition. So there is still hope for us.

You probably believe that I will blindly agree with anyone who says they believe in God, but my actions on these boards say otherwise, and I'm not talking about disagreements over dogma. I believe there is just as much danger from conformity from my side of the coin as there is from your side of the coin. To be a sound society there needs to be opposition. We both serve a purpose... keeping each other honest.

Maybe the biggest threat to humanity is amorality. At least while I don't agree with you on the solutions to our problems, I recognize you do stand for something and you believe you are being a force for good. I believe you are too.

So, it's not uniformity that's the problem, it's destroying opposition?

Well, I'd agree with that.

The US has basically managed that, you have two political parties who basically don't represent the people, they scratch each other's backs and have their policies which "define" them to make it look like they're different.

Everyone's fighting over that, and not over the real issues.

There are two ways one can get there; destroy opposition or brainwash the masses. Either way gets the same result.

The problem isn't the government per se. It's the people. The parties mirror us. We get the leaders we deserve. I am afraid we will have to hit rock bottom before any meaningful change occurs. An object at rest tends to stay at rest. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Inertia isn't just limited to physical forces. There are good reasons that history repeats itself. It's not an accident or a coincidence.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Okay, Hitler was a disaster, Stalin was a disaster, Pol Pot was a disaster. What's your point? Because they all demanded conformity, therefore it was a disaster.

My point is that opposition to them was eliminated. How else do you think they forced uniformity?

Look at the US. You have the pledge of allegiance in schools, you have the flag everywhere, the anthem, you have right wingers bitching and moaning about people kneeling at football games during the anthem, you have people who are like "we're not shopping in your store if you make a comment about our guns", it happens on both sides, but the right does it too.

Are you saying the US is a disaster?

There is little doubt that our love of the material has eroded our moral courage, but we still allow opposition. So there is still hope for us.

You probably believe that I will blindly agree with anyone who says they believe in God, but my actions on these boards say otherwise, and I'm not talking about disagreements over dogma. I believe there is just as much danger from conformity from my side of the coin as there is from your side of the coin. To be a sound society there needs to be opposition. We both serve a purpose... keeping each other honest.

Maybe the biggest threat to humanity is amorality. At least while I don't agree with you on the solutions to our problems, I recognize you do stand for something and you believe you are being a force for good. I believe you are too.

So, it's not uniformity that's the problem, it's destroying opposition?

Well, I'd agree with that.

The US has basically managed that, you have two political parties who basically don't represent the people, they scratch each other's backs and have their policies which "define" them to make it look like they're different.

Everyone's fighting over that, and not over the real issues.

There are two ways one can get there; destroy opposition or brainwash the masses. Either way gets the same result.

The problem isn't the government per se. It's the people. The parties mirror us. We get the leaders we deserve. I am afraid we will have to hit rock bottom before any meaningful change occurs. An object at rest tends to stay at rest. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Inertia isn't just limited to physical forces. There are good reasons that history repeats itself. It's not an accident or a coincidence.

Oh, of course.

Looking around this forum and you see brainwashed people all over the place. Different ways this brainwashing manifests itself. But the Monty Python team had it right.

Brian stands naked in the window and says "You're all individuals" and they all shout back "Yes, we're all individuals".

Now, they might have been referring to only religion when they wrote it, I don't know. But it certain looks like US partisan politics right now.

Do the parties mirror the people? In a sense yes.

However this is why I'm in favor of Proportional Representation.

The Republicans and Democrats are trying to mirror a generalized view of the US. Trying to get 60 million people to all agree to the same thing means you have to push them to be of the same thought. The Koch brothers figured it out. They're intelligent dudes, but they're also a bit evil in my view.

They're pushing all the right wingers towards their view of the world, and it's working because they have the money to do it, and are playing in sandbox mode with the two political parties.

Go to Germany with it's 6 political parties in the mainstream, and you have people being attracted to different parties which represent different areas of politics. It's harder for rich to pin everyone to the same stick (or cross or whatever you pin people to).

This gives people a choice, it allows for differences of opinion. It allows society to have that open conversation about issues.

The AfD, as much as I hate their views, they're like UKIP, Tea Party etc they have been able to appear and take control of a section of the political system. People know they can get represented by them.

The US system has changed how American people think, and unless the system chances, people will be stuck in this negative voting system with the rich controlling though way too much.

Hence why they don't want Proportional Representation.

 

[ding]

However this is why I'm in favor of Proportional Representation.

That would just make it worse.

 

[frigidweirdo]

However this is why I'm in favor of Proportional Representation.

That would just make it worse.

I disagree totally. Based on what I've seen of PR and other systems.

 

[ding]

However this is why I'm in favor of Proportional Representation.

That would just make it worse.

I disagree totally. Based on what I've seen of PR and other systems.

The more you make it a democracy the quicker the treasury gets raided as if we aren't already doing it fast enough.

Not sure how old you are but if you are in your 50's or 60's you will probably live long enough to see the dollar get debauched.

 

[frigidweirdo]

However this is why I'm in favor of Proportional Representation.

That would just make it worse.

I disagree totally. Based on what I've seen of PR and other systems.

The more you make it a democracy the quicker the treasury gets raided as if we aren't already doing it fast enough.

Not sure how old you are but if you are in your 50's or 60's you will probably live long enough to see the dollar get debauched.

The issue here is, has this happened in other PR countries.

The one good thing about PR is that generally, no one party gets enough seats to work alone. Coalition is the key, and coalition is about working together, and you can't just share the spoils.

Too many parties will be on your back and they'll take advantage of it. It's why Merkel is such a great politician, because she's lasted so long under all of these issues.

 

[Baron]

At first liberal do after getting power they kill Freedom of Speech. Example is Russia where bolshevik liberals killed more as 20m after 1917