Europe: The Psychological Gap Between East and West.

[Vagabond63]

I used subhuman to refer to you, and not an entire group of people.

You are beneath the minimum standards to be considered such because of your sick beliefs, and not your ethnicity.

My sick beliefs? Oh, Ok, so because I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, because I believe in the legal due process as opposed to lynch mob justice; because I believe that everyone is entitled to believe what they want unless that belief is used to oppress, persecute or discriminate against those who have different views, I’m somehow “sub human” and my beliefs are “sick”?

Methinks you are projecting again, your posts reveal much more about who you really are and what you really believe in. I pity you.

I am not the antisemite spouting the talking points utilized to justify the systematic extermination of 6 million innocent people.

You are.

Oh, right. As you are the only one who leapt to such a conclusion, you make it very clear to all that's how your mind works, projecting your own vile prejudices onto others.

 

[Vagabond63]

I don't think that this can be called a result of prolitezstion. This is more about adopting this religion by some people for some reason.

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Judaism is against prolitezation.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Not sure, it's possible, but I think it's a more modern phenomenon.

 

[rylah]

Turning a western country into an Islamist hellhole is not a right.

Any sovereign country should have the right to refuse entry to those who wish to destroy its culture and replace it with one that is primitive.

You are not answering the question.

Freedom of all to follow the faith of their choice, and not be persecuted for it.

Do you or do you not support those rights?

When practicing a so-called "faith" involves sedidious political behavior, no.

Just because we call an all-encompassing supremacist ideology a religion, that does not mean that the supremacists should be free to take over.

A country has ever right to place sensible limits on the ability of invaders to just have their way with things.


You and all other jihadists are simply trying to use Western freedoms to destroy it so you turn us from Dar am Herb to Dar am Islam . Once you are successful, there will BE no freedom.

Your faux concern for freedom only extends to your fellow Islamists. Your continual laughing over the massive number of British children your people are raping is proof of this. You simply do not care about the lives nor the cultures of those living in Western liberal societies - only your fellow Islamists.

Yes or no.

You dont get to define what isnt or is a religion. Not up to you.

I will make it a little easier for you. Countries with the greatest degree of freedom are those with secular legal system that recognizes and protects human rights and freedoms. So a person cant claim human sacrifice is part of his faith and practice it and claim religious freedom.

The child rapists you support are following their so-called faith.

Mohammad ordered his fellow thieves torape the females of the lands they invaded and had sex with a very young child, himself.

Dude, the Bible allowed child rape and child marriage. Rape and the taking of slaves was routine and God commanded some pretty bad shit. Old Testement. These are cultures of ancient times and those who continue to justify and practice that are to be condemned for the abusers they are. Unlike you I detest child exploitation and abuse of any kind, whether it is in Pakistan, Uganda, within our own country (Christian priests and minister, or Larry Nasser, who you falsely claimed was Muslim) or currently, the treatment of children at our border. Unlike you I don’t care what the ethnicity, race or religion of the perpetrators are and unlike you, I have talked about it.

The Muslims I know (probably more than you know) abhor it, abhor child marriage, and send their daughters to college. They do not consider child abuse part of their faith any more than you do and none are married to children. They participate in the democratic process, follow the same rule of law that Christians and Jews.

Meanwhile let’s see if we can an actual yes or no out of you. You seem to be following your predictable pattern of insult and make up shit about your opponent to avoid answering.

Now now,
You Linada "take their vaginas out" Sarsour wanna-be's are gonna tell us what the Hebrew Bible actually says, and what should be condemned?

In Hebrew, there's an idiom describing exactly this vulgar vitriolic behavior - "Has though murdered and also inherited?"

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

 

[rylah]

I don't think that this can be called a result of prolitezstion. This is more about adopting this religion by some people for some reason.

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Judaism is against prolitezation.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I used subhuman to refer to you, and not an entire group of people.

You are beneath the minimum standards to be considered such because of your sick beliefs, and not your ethnicity.

My sick beliefs? Oh, Ok, so because I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, because I believe in the legal due process as opposed to lynch mob justice; because I believe that everyone is entitled to believe what they want unless that belief is used to oppress, persecute or discriminate against those who have different views, I’m somehow “sub human” and my beliefs are “sick”?

Methinks you are projecting again, your posts reveal much more about who you really are and what you really believe in. I pity you.

I am not the antisemite spouting the talking points utilized to justify the systematic extermination of 6 million innocent people.

You are.

Oh, right. As you are the only one who leapt to such a conclusion, you make it very clear to all that's how your mind works, projecting your own vile prejudices onto others.

There was no leap, filth.

You indulged in classic antisemitism when you stated that it was Jews manipulating your fellow Muslims to fight each other.

 

[ESay]

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

If one imagine that Israel became a big state with a number of nationalities and religions inside of it. And the power in this Israel was seized by an Orthodox Jews. It became a theocracy with Orthodox rabbis heading the state and imposing religious laws upon the society.

What role would be preserved for religious and national minorities in such a state? What role of women would be? What rules would be regarding public behavior, appearance, arts and so on?

 

[rylah]

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

If one imagine that Israel became a big state with a number of nationalities and religions inside of it. And the power in this Israel was seized by an Orthodox Jews. It became a theocracy with Orthodox rabbis heading the state and imposing religious laws upon the society.

What role would be preserved for religious and national minorities in such a state? What role of women would be? What rules would be regarding public behavior, appearance, arts and so on?

No such animal possible.
Again You folks are projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism.

In Judaism the govt сan't impose that which the nation is not willing to accept.
Neither Jewish law allow any such things as "theocracy", monarchy yes, and even that too, is function of popular agreement.

There was only one such occasion in Jewish history of an attempt to run a "theocracy" aka rule of priesthood, that was called the Hashmonean rule- a vivid example of an illegitimate gotv, according to the "orthodox" law itself (if there's such a thing to begin with) that fell for that exact reason.

Educate Yourself with the basics.

 

[Vagabond63]

I used subhuman to refer to you, and not an entire group of people.

You are beneath the minimum standards to be considered such because of your sick beliefs, and not your ethnicity.

My sick beliefs? Oh, Ok, so because I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, because I believe in the legal due process as opposed to lynch mob justice; because I believe that everyone is entitled to believe what they want unless that belief is used to oppress, persecute or discriminate against those who have different views, I’m somehow “sub human” and my beliefs are “sick”?

Methinks you are projecting again, your posts reveal much more about who you really are and what you really believe in. I pity you.

I am not the antisemite spouting the talking points utilized to justify the systematic extermination of 6 million innocent people.

You are.

Oh, right. As you are the only one who leapt to such a conclusion, you make it very clear to all that's how your mind works, projecting your own vile prejudices onto others.

There was no leap, filth.

You indulged in classic antisemitism when you stated that it was Jews manipulating your fellow Muslims to fight each other.

Once again, a stirling display of projecting your own ignorance and prejudice onto others, you must really get off on wallowing in "filth" of your own making, sad.

Oh, BTW, if Islam ever takes over in the UK, mine will be amongst the first "heads to roll", not a fan of any monotheistic religious dogma, my dogmaphile friend.

 

[ESay]

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

If one imagine that Israel became a big state with a number of nationalities and religions inside of it. And the power in this Israel was seized by an Orthodox Jews. It became a theocracy with Orthodox rabbis heading the state and imposing religious laws upon the society.

What role would be preserved for religious and national minorities in such a state? What role of women would be? What rules would be regarding public behavior, appearance, arts and so on?

No such animal possible.
Again You folks are projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism.

In Judaism the govt сan't impose that which the nation is not willing to accept.
Neither Jewish law allow any such things as "theocracy", monarchy yes, and even that too, is function of popular agreement.

There was only one such occasion in Jewish history of an attempt to run a "theocracy" aka rule of priesthood, that was called the Hashmonean rule- a vivid example of an illegitimate gotv, according to the "orthodox" law itself (if there's such a thing to begin with) that fell for that exact reason.

Educate Yourself with the basics.

Theocracy is impossible? Okay. After some time, becsuse of demography, the majority on the Knesset is got by Orthodox parties. They form the government and are able to carry out their policy as they want. Is it possible? And my previous questions still stand - about religious minorities, women and the public rules.

Unless I am mistaken, in some places the Orthodoxes had their demands met about public transport being not operated in Sabbath, for example.

 

[rylah]

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

If one imagine that Israel became a big state with a number of nationalities and religions inside of it. And the power in this Israel was seized by an Orthodox Jews. It became a theocracy with Orthodox rabbis heading the state and imposing religious laws upon the society.

What role would be preserved for religious and national minorities in such a state? What role of women would be? What rules would be regarding public behavior, appearance, arts and so on?

No such animal possible.
Again You folks are projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism.

In Judaism the govt сan't impose that which the nation is not willing to accept.
Neither Jewish law allow any such things as "theocracy", monarchy yes, and even that too, is function of popular agreement.

There was only one such occasion in Jewish history of an attempt to run a "theocracy" aka rule of priesthood, that was called the Hashmonean rule- a vivid example of an illegitimate gotv, according to the "orthodox" law itself (if there's such a thing to begin with) that fell for that exact reason.

Educate Yourself with the basics.

Theocracy is impossible? Okay. After some time, becsuse of demography, the majority on the Knesset is got by Orthodox parties. They form the government and are able to carry out their policy as they want. Is it possible? And my previous questions still stand - about religious minorities, women and the public rules.

Unless I am mistaken, in some places the Orthodoxes had their demands met about public transport being not operated in Sabbath, for example.

I don't think You understand the term Theocracy.
Orthodox parties having a majority in the Knesset doesn't mean they get to forcefully impose anything against the will of the nation. Neither Jewish Law a dogmatic body, but a dynamic discussion that evolves around the situation at the time, and as I've said part of its principles is that one cannot impose that which the nation is incapable to follow or accept, even if Torah prescribes that. Nor does it mean there's a single superior authority in that equation, or that Jewish Law itself, in any current form has more authority than what a big community, or person received as traditional practice.

For example, if most scholars rule that on a specific fast day there's not to be any work done,
while Your grandma was taught to clean the house on that day - all the scholars can do is find a rationale for that in the Jewish Law - heritage is of higher authority than religious rule.

If the nation elects them, it can vote them out the same way. What You're probably imagining when saying "theocracy" is closer to the rule that was in Israel when Moses A"H was the authority, and that too wasn't a single man's rule rather a system of courts representing each tribe, as if say each state in the US had equal representation and a president who's decision was needed only when the lower courts had no ruling.

Your framing of the question in terms of theocracy is irrelevant, because prophets are neither elected, nor the orthodox parties pertain to be one's. That's about where their rule ends and real theocracy starts, no one can choose that and no one can make that a reality other than G-d Himself.

Same goes with the Sanhedrion, it's a different equation of reality altogether that no orthodox party is capable of fulfilling.

As for transport on Shabbat, it may be a surprise but many who demand it stops for the day are simple people not belonging to any orthodox party, who simply prefer some quiet once in a week without any religious reasoning. We've had demonstration in most secular communities of Holon, Givataim, Ramat Gan etc - Tel Aviv area demanding just that. While on the other hand the orthodox parties look for ways to indirectly allow that in places of greater demand, so that they can find middle ground and function as a government on issues they see more important. They don't force it through law, but simply by boycotting companies en mass as consumers.

In Jerusalem for example, if You go by bus or tram, You'll see both mixed situations, and separation, where men are at the front and women at the back volunterally - it depends solely on the public using the transport at the time. No one will force You out if You don't apply by their standard - simply won't sit near You and go to another part of the bus.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I used subhuman to refer to you, and not an entire group of people.

You are beneath the minimum standards to be considered such because of your sick beliefs, and not your ethnicity.

My sick beliefs? Oh, Ok, so because I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty, because I believe in the legal due process as opposed to lynch mob justice; because I believe that everyone is entitled to believe what they want unless that belief is used to oppress, persecute or discriminate against those who have different views, I’m somehow “sub human” and my beliefs are “sick”?

Methinks you are projecting again, your posts reveal much more about who you really are and what you really believe in. I pity you.

I am not the antisemite spouting the talking points utilized to justify the systematic extermination of 6 million innocent people.

You are.

Oh, right. As you are the only one who leapt to such a conclusion, you make it very clear to all that's how your mind works, projecting your own vile prejudices onto others.

There was no leap, filth.

You indulged in classic antisemitism when you stated that it was Jews manipulating your fellow Muslims to fight each other.

Once again, a stirling display of projecting your own ignorance and prejudice onto others, you must really get off on wallowing in "filth" of your own making, sad.

Oh, BTW, if Islam ever takes over in the UK, mine will be amongst the first "heads to roll", not a fan of any monotheistic religious dogma, my dogmaphile friend.

Your canard about the sneaky Jew manipulating others to fight each other is right out of the Nazi playbook.

 

[ESay]

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

If one imagine that Israel became a big state with a number of nationalities and religions inside of it. And the power in this Israel was seized by an Orthodox Jews. It became a theocracy with Orthodox rabbis heading the state and imposing religious laws upon the society.

What role would be preserved for religious and national minorities in such a state? What role of women would be? What rules would be regarding public behavior, appearance, arts and so on?

No such animal possible.
Again You folks are projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism.

In Judaism the govt сan't impose that which the nation is not willing to accept.
Neither Jewish law allow any such things as "theocracy", monarchy yes, and even that too, is function of popular agreement.

There was only one such occasion in Jewish history of an attempt to run a "theocracy" aka rule of priesthood, that was called the Hashmonean rule- a vivid example of an illegitimate gotv, according to the "orthodox" law itself (if there's such a thing to begin with) that fell for that exact reason.

Educate Yourself with the basics.

Theocracy is impossible? Okay. After some time, becsuse of demography, the majority on the Knesset is got by Orthodox parties. They form the government and are able to carry out their policy as they want. Is it possible? And my previous questions still stand - about religious minorities, women and the public rules.

Unless I am mistaken, in some places the Orthodoxes had their demands met about public transport being not operated in Sabbath, for example.

I don't think You understand the term Theocracy.
Orthodox parties having a majority in the Knesset doesn't mean they get to forcefully impose anything against the will of the nation. Neither Jewish Law a dogmatic body, but a dynamic discussion that evolves around the situation at the time, and as I've said part of its principles is that one cannot impose that which the nation is incapable to follow or accept, even if Torah prescribes that. Nor does it mean there's a single superior authority in that equation, or that Jewish Law itself, in any current form has more authority than what a big community, or person received as traditional practice.

For example, if most scholars rule that on a specific fast day there's not to be any work done,
while Your grandma was taught to clean the house on that day - all the scholars can do is find a rationale for that in the Jewish Law - heritage is of higher authority than religious rule.

If the nation elects them, it can vote them out the same way. What You're probably imagining when saying "theocracy" is closer to the rule that was in Israel when Moses A"H was the authority, and that too wasn't a single man's rule rather a system of courts representing each tribe, as if say each state in the US had equal representation and a president who's decision was needed only when the lower courts had no ruling.

Your framing of the question in terms of theocracy is irrelevant, because prophets are neither elected, nor the orthodox parties pertain to be one's. That's about where their rule ends and real theocracy starts, no one can choose that and no one can make that a reality other than G-d Himself.

Same goes with the Sanhedrion, it's a different equation of reality altogether that no orthodox party is capable of fulfilling.

As for transport on Shabbat, it may be a surprise but many who demand it stops for the day are simple people not belonging to any orthodox party, who simply prefer some quiet once in a week without any religious reasoning. We've had demonstration in most secular communities of Holon, Givataim, Ramat Gan etc - Tel Aviv area demanding just that. While on the other hand the orthodox parties look for ways to indirectly allow that in places of greater demand, so that they can find middle ground and function as a government on issues they see more important. They don't force it through law, but simply by boycotting companies en mass as consumers.

In Jerusalem for example, if You go by bus or tram, You'll see both mixed situations, and separation, where men are at the front and women at the back volunterally - it depends solely on the public using the transport at the time. No one will force You out if You don't apply by their standard - simply won't sit near You and go to another part of the bus.

I am glad that in Judaism there is a system of balancing between religious extremism and the common sense, really. Frankly, there was time when I considered Judaism as a primitive and purely tribal religion. But afterwads I changed my mind significantly. But there are sevral things that confuse me.

And one if these things is Orthodox movements. I live in a country that annually accepts tens of thousands of Hasids which celebrate Rosh Hashana. I am talking about so called Lubavic Hasids. And there is mostly negative view of them among some people who claim to have encountered them. They are accused of agressive behaviour, conflicting with locals, littering and the like. I dont know how fair these accusations are overall, though.

What is my point. There exist some groups of people which can be considered as the strictest adherents to one or another religion, true followers. And basically are examples of what the religion represents. Can these group of Hasids be considered as true followers and what your opinion is about them?

 

[Coyote]

I don't think that this can be called a result of prolitezstion. This is more about adopting this religion by some people for some reason.

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Judaism is against prolitezation.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

 

[rylah]

I don't think that this can be called a result of prolitezstion. This is more about adopting this religion by some people for some reason.

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Judaism is against prolitezation.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

I don't see any contradiction with my post.
If You don't like being put in Your place on the issue, address Your obsession with anything Jewish,
to someone who matches Your apparent bias and level of ignorance of the topic.

 

[Coyote]

I don't think that this can be called a result of prolitezstion. This is more about adopting this religion by some people for some reason.

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Judaism is against prolitezation.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

I don't see any contradiction with my post.
If You don't like being put in Your place on the issue, address Your obsession with anything Jewish,
to someone who matches Your apparent bias and level of ignorance of the topic.

I am not obsessed with everything Jewish. I was commenting on something historic that another poster had brought up, that was interesting when you jumped in to the middle of it flaming, with something that really wasn’t even relevant to that part of the discussion. I wonder why? Because you are just a jerk?

 

[rylah]

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

I don't see any contradiction with my post.
If You don't like being put in Your place on the issue, address Your obsession with anything Jewish,
to someone who matches Your apparent bias and level of ignorance of the topic.

I am not obsessed with everything Jewish. I was commenting on something historic that another poster had brought up, that was interesting when you jumped in to the middle of it flaming, with something that really wasn’t even relevant to that part of the discussion. I wonder why? Because you are just a jerk?

Not relevant?
Who are You fooling, anyone can read Your none sense
and see the apparent obsession and abusive behavior.

Coyote go suggest people they establish caliphates in their land,
divide their capital with sworn enemies and spread bigotry about their faith.

Then return and tell me how that went along.
Mkay?

 

[Coyote]

Judaism was a major religion around the Mediterranean basin in ancient times, at one point historians estimate that as much as 20% of the population of Rome were converts to Judaism. Christianity and Judaism competed fiercely for converts until Christianity won out when the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of the Empire. In the next few centuries, most Jewish converts "re-converted" to Christianity and Jewish numbers declined (Christian persecutions helped to speed up this process) until only the most "devout/fanatical" converts were left.

Only since medieval times, when it began to turn inward on itself.

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

I don't see any contradiction with my post.
If You don't like being put in Your place on the issue, address Your obsession with anything Jewish,
to someone who matches Your apparent bias and level of ignorance of the topic.

I am not obsessed with everything Jewish. I was commenting on something historic that another poster had brought up, that was interesting when you jumped in to the middle of it flaming, with something that really wasn’t even relevant to that part of the discussion. I wonder why? Because you are just a jerk?

Oh. And let me add, you really are a pompous jerk. My response to the other poster was just a question. Nothing to do with you, just a question about something I had read somewhere. Then jump in, take my question as a statement, and act like a jerk. And you hardly lack bias yourself, so don’t crack your glass house while you are chucking stones around.

 

[Coyote]

[

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

I don't see any contradiction with my post.
If You don't like being put in Your place on the issue, address Your obsession with anything Jewish,
to someone who matches Your apparent bias and level of ignorance of the topic.

I am not obsessed with everything Jewish. I was commenting on something historic that another poster had brought up, that was interesting when you jumped in to the middle of it flaming, with something that really wasn’t even relevant to that part of the discussion. I wonder why? Because you are just a jerk?

Not relevant?
Who are You fooling, anyone can read Your none sense
and see the apparent obsession and abusive behavior.

Coyote go suggest people they establish caliphates in their land,
divide their capital with sworn enemies and spread bigotry about their faith.

Then return and tell me how that went along.
Mkay?

You are a liar. You know I meant Emerites, something we had already been discussing. If this is what come up with in lieu of discussion, I have no further interest in interacting with you. Find some else to troll. Good day.

 

[rylah]

Interesting history...I did not know this, but it makes sense, isnt that also when was decided being Jewish was determined through the mother?

Do You know the difference between history and "historic estimations",
or just swallow anything that will fit Your arrogance and 'draw a circle around the arrow'?

Israeli ancestry is determined by both mother and father, the first determines the belonging to the nation as a whole, the second the specific tribe. A child born to woman from the tribe Judah (Jew) and father from the tribe of Gad, is determined as and Israeli child belonging to the tribe of Gad.

Capiche?

Maybe you should step back and stop being such an pompous jerk for a change. It would be a breath of fresh air but I won’t hold my breath.


Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
According to traditional Jewish law (halacha), Jewishness is passed down through the mother. So, if your mother was Jewish, you are too. This position is held by most members of the Conservative and Orthodox communities. The Reform movement recognizes the children of one Jewish parent — mother or father — as a Member of the Tribe if the child is raised Jewish.

Who Is A Jew?
Who is a Jew According to halakhah (Jewish Religious Law)?
According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.


Born to a non-Jewish mother
The practice and acceptance of patrilineal descent is somewhat different in the United States, and has been since 1983, but the Canadian Reform movement adheres to the traditional approach to Jewish status: one is a Jew if he or she is born to a Jewish mother, or if that person converts to Judaism

My cousin’s father was Jewish, her mother not. She was not considered a Jew. In fact her father’s family never forgave him for marrying outside the faith.

I don't see any contradiction with my post.
If You don't like being put in Your place on the issue, address Your obsession with anything Jewish,
to someone who matches Your apparent bias and level of ignorance of the topic.

I am not obsessed with everything Jewish. I was commenting on something historic that another poster had brought up, that was interesting when you jumped in to the middle of it flaming, with something that really wasn’t even relevant to that part of the discussion. I wonder why? Because you are just a jerk?

Oh. And let me add, you really are a pompous jerk. My response to the other poster was just a question. Nothing to do with you, just a question about something I had read somewhere. Then jump in, take my question as a statement, and act like a jerk. And you hardly lack bias yourself, so don’t crack your glass house while you are chucking stones around.

Divide my capital, support my enemies, insult my faith, abuse my friends,
use Your admin status to dig into posts I've deleted to smear and accuse me of stuff,
while attacking me personally?

Nothing to do with me? Really?
That's just below any basic level of integrity...

Please go find someone else to bother.

 

[Coyote]

Get down from that high horse, and educate Yourself, because other than projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism and the Torah, those which they swore to eradicate and forge, You have no idea what You're talking about whatsoever.

If one imagine that Israel became a big state with a number of nationalities and religions inside of it. And the power in this Israel was seized by an Orthodox Jews. It became a theocracy with Orthodox rabbis heading the state and imposing religious laws upon the society.

What role would be preserved for religious and national minorities in such a state? What role of women would be? What rules would be regarding public behavior, appearance, arts and so on?

No such animal possible.
Again You folks are projecting Christianity and Islam on Judaism.

In Judaism the govt сan't impose that which the nation is not willing to accept.
Neither Jewish law allow any such things as "theocracy", monarchy yes, and even that too, is function of popular agreement.

There was only one such occasion in Jewish history of an attempt to run a "theocracy" aka rule of priesthood, that was called the Hashmonean rule- a vivid example of an illegitimate gotv, according to the "orthodox" law itself (if there's such a thing to begin with) that fell for that exact reason.

Educate Yourself with the basics.

Theocracy is impossible? Okay. After some time, becsuse of demography, the majority on the Knesset is got by Orthodox parties. They form the government and are able to carry out their policy as they want. Is it possible? And my previous questions still stand - about religious minorities, women and the public rules.

Unless I am mistaken, in some places the Orthodoxes had their demands met about public transport being not operated in Sabbath, for example.

I don't think You understand the term Theocracy.
Orthodox parties having a majority in the Knesset doesn't mean they get to forcefully impose anything against the will of the nation. Neither Jewish Law a dogmatic body, but a dynamic discussion that evolves around the situation at the time, and as I've said part of its principles is that one cannot impose that which the nation is incapable to follow or accept, even if Torah prescribes that. Nor does it mean there's a single superior authority in that equation, or that Jewish Law itself, in any current form has more authority than what a big community, or person received as traditional practice.

For example, if most scholars rule that on a specific fast day there's not to be any work done,
while Your grandma was taught to clean the house on that day - all the scholars can do is find a rationale for that in the Jewish Law - heritage is of higher authority than religious rule.

If the nation elects them, it can vote them out the same way. What You're probably imagining when saying "theocracy" is closer to the rule that was in Israel when Moses A"H was the authority, and that too wasn't a single man's rule rather a system of courts representing each tribe, as if say each state in the US had equal representation and a president who's decision was needed only when the lower courts had no ruling.

Your framing of the question in terms of theocracy is irrelevant, because prophets are neither elected, nor the orthodox parties pertain to be one's. That's about where their rule ends and real theocracy starts, no one can choose that and no one can make that a reality other than G-d Himself.

Same goes with the Sanhedrion, it's a different equation of reality altogether that no orthodox party is capable of fulfilling.

As for transport on Shabbat, it may be a surprise but many who demand it stops for the day are simple people not belonging to any orthodox party, who simply prefer some quiet once in a week without any religious reasoning. We've had demonstration in most secular communities of Holon, Givataim, Ramat Gan etc - Tel Aviv area demanding just that. While on the other hand the orthodox parties look for ways to indirectly allow that in places of greater demand, so that they can find middle ground and function as a government on issues they see more important. They don't force it through law, but simply by boycotting companies en mass as consumers.

In Jerusalem for example, if You go by bus or tram, You'll see both mixed situations, and separation, where men are at the front and women at the back volunterally - it depends solely on the public using the transport at the time. No one will force You out if You don't apply by their standard - simply won't sit near You and go to another part of the bus.

'Sinful' city buses stoned by ultra-Orthodox Jews

'Only room for men': Driver denied Israeli woman entry on bus to ultra-Orthodox town

Ultra-Orthodox protesters shatter bus windows after female passenger refuses to sit in back