Ethics in Business

[Cecilie1200]

I thought it would be interesting to hear everyone's opinions on this situation.

My friend, Sean, is an auto mechanic. He used to work for a small, individually-owned garage, and his boss was a classic scumbag. Just as an example, Sean quit because his boss wanted him to charge black customers extra.

Sean is now making plans to open his own garage, and would like to bid on the fleet business of his former boss's customers who he knows are being routinely gouged on prices. He feels it's unethical, though, because he became acquainted with the customers through his job and he's taking advantage of inside knowledge (the fact that the prices are deliberately inflated). I say it's ethical because he hasn't worked for the man in a while, so it isn't like he's quitting and taking the business with him out the door. And any reasonably-informed person in the automotive industry could look at those prices and know that they're inflated. As long as he doesn't badmouth his old boss to get the business and simply enters a lower - honest - bid, I don't see the problem.

What do you guys say?

 

[Madeline]

You are correct. Sean's old boss could have protected himself with a covenant not to compete (for which he would have paid Sean). He did not; Sean should go forth and prosper.

Many blessings on his new business.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You are correct. Sean's old boss could have protected himself with a covenant not to compete (for which he would have paid Sean). He did not; Sean should go forth and prosper.

Many blessings on his new business.

Thanks. I think he'll do great.

 

[Wry Catcher]

In general, business ethics is an oxymoron.

 

[Madeline]

Dog-eat-dog ain't really good business, Wry Catcher.

 

[lizzie]

Imo, as long as he's being honest and practicing personal ethics, there's no problem.

 

[american chaos]

There is no such thing as "ethics in business". In fact, there is no wrong way in business as long as you make a profit.


Your friend should run advertisement calling his old boss a Douche bag filled with pee!

 

[Care4all]

Shawn's boss could have had him on a non-compete contract, he did not, so it is fair game.

I was paid by the last company I worked for that downsized me, for nearly a year, as long as I did not go to work for one of their competitors or for myself, using the private information of the company.

good luck to your friend....non competitive contracts are usually only for a year after being laid off anyway.

I would not blast or complain about his previous owner, when he is seeking these other accounts though....his competitive prices alone should do the trick.

 

[Madeline]

Crooked businesses attract sleazy clients, who often pay slow or not at all. Integrity in business isn't just good for the soul...it's also good for the bottom line.

The future clients of this business will watch how the owner speaks of his former employer, and wonder if someday, that's how he'll speak about them. If he exercises restraint, they'll be more inclined to trust him.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I thought it would be interesting to hear everyone's opinions on this situation.

My friend, Sean, is an auto mechanic. He used to work for a small, individually-owned garage, and his boss was a classic scumbag. Just as an example, Sean quit because his boss wanted him to charge black customers extra.

Sean is now making plans to open his own garage, and would like to bid on the fleet business of his former boss's customers who he knows are being routinely gouged on prices. He feels it's unethical, though, because he became acquainted with the customers through his job and he's taking advantage of inside knowledge (the fact that the prices are deliberately inflated). I say it's ethical because he hasn't worked for the man in a while, so it isn't like he's quitting and taking the business with him out the door. And any reasonably-informed person in the automotive industry could look at those prices and know that they're inflated. As long as he doesn't badmouth his old boss to get the business and simply enters a lower - honest - bid, I don't see the problem.

What do you guys say?

Tell Sean that he does not have non-disclosure or a refusal-to-compete agreements with his former boss, then he is certainly ethical and moral to challenge the bum carburetor to carburetor for the clienteles' business. I doubt that the boss can legally mount a successful challenge.

I think, additionally, if Sean is a true capitalist he will believe in customer service, quality work, and low prices to generate volume.

Good for him.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Dog-eat-dog ain't really good business, Wry Catcher.

Dog-eat-dog describes a world in which people fight for themselves only and will hurt other people. Example: "I have been in this business for twenty years. It's dog-eat-dog. The competition is always trying to steal your customers."

Dog-eat-dog means that a person is like a dog that will eat another dog. Sometimes people say, "It's a dog-eat-dog world", as an excuse when they have hurt another person. Example: "I can't believe you sold him your motorcycle for so much money!" Reply: "Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world."

It's a dog-eat-dog world means that you must first watch out for your own interests, because other people will be watching out for theirs.

It may not be good business, but caveat emptor seems to be the way most business is conducted today (at least in my experience); getting away with as much profit as possible without concern for customer service or building a relationship with custormers. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions not the rule.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

He can be sued by his former owner, and typically a list of customers are provided in which the kid can have no contact with. With or without any previously signed agreement I believe. Had it happen to my sister and her husband, only lasts a few years, maybe three.

 

[Madeline]

There is no "implied covenant not to compete". These restrictions have to be in writing and like any contract, they must be supported by consideration (something of value).

 

[Cecilie1200]

In general, business ethics is an oxymoron.

Not for decent human beings with a moral center.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Shawn's boss could have had him on a non-compete contract, he did not, so it is fair game.

I was paid by the last company I worked for that downsized me, for nearly a year, as long as I did not go to work for one of their competitors or for myself, using the private information of the company.

good luck to your friend....non competitive contracts are usually only for a year after being laid off anyway.

I would not blast or complain about his previous owner, when he is seeking these other accounts though....his competitive prices alone should do the trick.

That's what I think. The customer will figure out he was being cheated on his own. It always seems unprofessional to me to denigrate a former employer, even if they deserve it.

 

[uscitizen]

For many in business it is only wrong if you get caught. And then it is someone elses fault.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Dog-eat-dog ain't really good business, Wry Catcher.

Dog-eat-dog describes a world in which people fight for themselves only and will hurt other people. Example: "I have been in this business for twenty years. It's dog-eat-dog. The competition is always trying to steal your customers."

Dog-eat-dog means that a person is like a dog that will eat another dog. Sometimes people say, "It's a dog-eat-dog world", as an excuse when they have hurt another person. Example: "I can't believe you sold him your motorcycle for so much money!" Reply: "Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world."

It's a dog-eat-dog world means that you must first watch out for your own interests, because other people will be watching out for theirs.

It may not be good business, but caveat emptor seems to be the way most business is conducted today (at least in my experience); getting away with as much profit as possible without concern for customer service or building a relationship with custormers. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions not the rule.

Personally, I don't do business with people like that, and I've never had any problem finding businesses which are willing to earn repeat customers. The mechanic I've been using for years (before becoming friends with Sean) has always dealt well with me. Not only does he never charge me over the amount he gave me as an estimate, there have been several times he's given me refunds because he managed to find a better deal on the part than he expected.

My favorite sushi restaurant had a special sushi roll on their limited-time menu for a month, and I liked it so much, they've continued letting me order it for the last four years. They even teach their new sushi chefs to make it, just so I can continue ordering it.

My primary-care physician came to visit me in the hospital after I had my last baby. No particular reason. He was just doing rounds, and decided to pop in and see how I was doing.

The WalMart that I shop in had half its employees drop what they were doing and help me find my purse once when I misplaced it.

Businesses are made up of people, and most people are basically decent at heart. If the ones around you aren't, well . . . you know what they say about birds of a feather.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Dog-eat-dog ain't really good business, Wry Catcher.

Dog-eat-dog describes a world in which people fight for themselves only and will hurt other people. Example: "I have been in this business for twenty years. It's dog-eat-dog. The competition is always trying to steal your customers."

Dog-eat-dog means that a person is like a dog that will eat another dog. Sometimes people say, "It's a dog-eat-dog world", as an excuse when they have hurt another person. Example: "I can't believe you sold him your motorcycle for so much money!" Reply: "Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world."

It's a dog-eat-dog world means that you must first watch out for your own interests, because other people will be watching out for theirs.

It may not be good business, but caveat emptor seems to be the way most business is conducted today (at least in my experience); getting away with as much profit as possible without concern for customer service or building a relationship with custormers. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions not the rule.

Personally, I don't do business with people like that, and I've never had any problem finding businesses which are willing to earn repeat customers. The mechanic I've been using for years (before becoming friends with Sean) has always dealt well with me. Not only does he never charge me over the amount he gave me as an estimate, there have been several times he's given me refunds because he managed to find a better deal on the part than he expected.

My favorite sushi restaurant had a special sushi roll on their limited-time menu for a month, and I liked it so much, they've continued letting me order it for the last four years. They even teach their new sushi chefs to make it, just so I can continue ordering it.

My primary-care physician came to visit me in the hospital after I had my last baby. No particular reason. He was just doing rounds, and decided to pop in and see how I was doing.

The WalMart that I shop in had half its employees drop what they were doing and help me find my purse once when I misplaced it.

Businesses are made up of people, and most people are basically decent at heart. If the ones around you aren't, well . . . you know what they say about birds of a feather.

To be clear, my observation was not based on my experience with small business. I too have a trusted mechanic and dentist and we frequent the same small restaurants for service and savor; I speak of the banks and insurance industries, the large retail establishments and the airlines, garbage companies, the religious 'industry and in particular Wal-Mart. Greed has become a virtue in the minds of many, expecially the cut coupons class.

 

[Madeline]

I agree, Wry Catcher...which is why I avoid doing business with them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Dog-eat-dog describes a world in which people fight for themselves only and will hurt other people. Example: "I have been in this business for twenty years. It's dog-eat-dog. The competition is always trying to steal your customers."

Dog-eat-dog means that a person is like a dog that will eat another dog. Sometimes people say, "It's a dog-eat-dog world", as an excuse when they have hurt another person. Example: "I can't believe you sold him your motorcycle for so much money!" Reply: "Hey, it's a dog-eat-dog world."

It's a dog-eat-dog world means that you must first watch out for your own interests, because other people will be watching out for theirs.

It may not be good business, but caveat emptor seems to be the way most business is conducted today (at least in my experience); getting away with as much profit as possible without concern for customer service or building a relationship with custormers. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions not the rule.

Personally, I don't do business with people like that, and I've never had any problem finding businesses which are willing to earn repeat customers. The mechanic I've been using for years (before becoming friends with Sean) has always dealt well with me. Not only does he never charge me over the amount he gave me as an estimate, there have been several times he's given me refunds because he managed to find a better deal on the part than he expected.

My favorite sushi restaurant had a special sushi roll on their limited-time menu for a month, and I liked it so much, they've continued letting me order it for the last four years. They even teach their new sushi chefs to make it, just so I can continue ordering it.

My primary-care physician came to visit me in the hospital after I had my last baby. No particular reason. He was just doing rounds, and decided to pop in and see how I was doing.

The WalMart that I shop in had half its employees drop what they were doing and help me find my purse once when I misplaced it.

Businesses are made up of people, and most people are basically decent at heart. If the ones around you aren't, well . . . you know what they say about birds of a feather.

To be clear, my observation was not based on my experience with small business. I too have a trusted mechanic and dentist and we frequent the same small restaurants for service and savor; I speak of the banks and insurance industries, the large retail establishments and the airlines, garbage companies, the religious 'industry and in particular Wal-Mart. Greed has become a virtue in the minds of many, expecially the cut coupons class.

Well, when my purse was stolen, my bank went out of its way to help me deal with the loss of my credit card and checking info with the smallest inconvenience to me. My insurance company has always been prompt and courteous, and I already told you about WalMart.

Religion is not an "industry", and I stand by my statement that if you are having trouble finding good people, perhaps you should look a little closer to home for the problem. Seems to me that hateful cynicism has become a virtue to many, such that they taint the world around them to match their bleak expectations.