EPA turns down states' request for ethanol waiver

[Jarlaxle]

Tell me something, if ethanol is not a problem why do manufacturer's refuse to honor their warranties if you use higher blends?

The same reason that they would not honor the warranty if you used METHANOL blends, or put leaded gas in a new car, or burned 85-octane gas in a new Corvette ZR1. Because they are designed for a certain percent of ethanol, usually ten percent! This is like explaining physics to a chimp.

What possible difference could it make, the stuff never damages engines, you said so yourself.

I am beginning to feel like I am talking to a mental patient...but I'll play along: Running straight alky, an engine has to run much richer than on gasoline. The stochiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1, for alcohol it is, best I recall, about 9:1. Therefore, an engine designed for gasoline running on alky is running VERY lean. (And an alky engine running gas is pig-rich.) Running lean under load can kill an engine.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Let me see.

I have a choice between believing engine manufacturers, industry magazines, and independent researchers, all of whom report higher maintenance expenses when using ethanol, and an anonymous idiot who claims to be the only person on the planet never to have had a problem as a result of ethanol.

Guess which side I come down on.

No, actually...I am a car nut, a serious wrench (EVERY fastener on my Coupe de Ville has been removed and installed by me, ditto for my wife and her Buick Grand National), and have many friends (and some relatives) who are also car nuts. Nobody, repeat nobody has had any ethanol-related problems!

Stop blaming the gas for your ineptitude!

I see now, because you are obsessive compulsive, and your engines spend more time sitting on your coffee table than they do in the car, that is proof that everyone else in the world is crazy when they have problems.

At this point, I'm not sure if you are projecting, flailing, or just babbling. I am not "obsessive compulsive". I have absolutely no idea what the hell you are rambling about.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Tell me something, why is it impossible to ship ethanol through pipelines?

It's hydroscopic.

It is an underwater optical device?

Thanks for proving you are an idiot.

Yes, I admit it: I made a TYPO! Oh, the HORROR! It's not my first, it won't be my last.

But yes, ethanol cannot go through pipelines because it is hygroscopic. (Incidentally, so is DOT3, 4, and 5.1 brake fluid.)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's hydroscopic.

It is an underwater optical device?

Thanks for proving you are an idiot.

Yes, I admit it: I made a TYPO! Oh, the HORROR! It's not my first, it won't be my last.

But yes, ethanol cannot go through pipelines because it is hygroscopic. (Incidentally, so is DOT3, 4, and 5.1 brake fluid.)

Strangely enough, I don't try to run my car on brake fluid either.

 

[Mr. H.]

When the discussions on ethanol and ethanol blended fuels first appeared in newspapers (remember those?) in the early '80s, I was highly suspicious. Not skeptical... suspicious. Of motive.

I specifically remember an article proclaiming that initial EPA tests revealed ETOH blends resulted in tailpipe emissions exceeding the then-established limits. Not long after, it was announced that tailpipe emissions standards were re-written, or rolled back. Why?

To accomodate ethanol-blended fuels.

The program was pitched on 3 perceived merits:

1) Ethanol blended fuels burn cleaner and will improve air quality.

Thirty years later, there is no quantitative proof of improvement in air quality solely attributable to the use of ethanol blended fuels.

2) Ethanol blended fuels will reduce imports of crude oil.

Look at the history of imported crude over the last 30 years.

3) Ethanol blended fuels will benefit farmers through strengthened corn prices.

Bingo.

As I first posted.... LOL, suckers.

 

[percysunshine]

Never fight an inanimate object.

 

[Mr. H.]

I took a tour of the Jack Daniels complex down there in TN. I asked why all the trees were black.

"Oh that's the cO2. Nothing to see here folks..."

Factories that convert corn into the gasoline additive ethanol are releasing carbon monoxide, methanol and some carcinogens at levels "many times greater" than they promised, the government says.

Ethanol Pollution Surprise - CBS News

 

[OKTexas]

EPA turns down states' request for ethanol waiver | Comcast

The Environmental Protection Agency has denied requests from several governors to waive production requirements for corn-based ethanol.

A renewable fuels law requires that 13.2 billion gallons of ethanol be produced by this year and 15 billion gallons be produced by 2015. That's good for corn farmers, but it's angered poultry, hog and cattle farmers. They say they've seen big jumps in corn-based feed costs as corn is diverted to make ethanol vehicle fuel.

States requesting the waiver say reduced corn production due to this year's drought has made the problem even worse.

All aboard the Obama fuck train, choo-choo........

Another fine example of the Cloward and Piven strategy to overload and colapse the system under its own weight. Soon we'll have another 50 million on food stamps.

 

[daveman]

I took a tour of the Jack Daniels complex down there in TN. I asked why all the trees were black.

"Oh that's the cO2. Nothing to see here folks..."

Factories that convert corn into the gasoline additive ethanol are releasing carbon monoxide, methanol and some carcinogens at levels "many times greater" than they promised, the government says.

Ethanol Pollution Surprise - CBS News

Not only that...

Dead zone in gulf linked to ethanol production - SFGate

While the BP oil spill has been labeled the worst environmental catastrophe in recent U.S. history, a biofuel is contributing to a Gulf of Mexico "dead zone" the size of New Jersey that scientists say could be every bit as harmful to the gulf.
Each year, nitrogen used to fertilize corn, about a third of which is made into ethanol, leaches from Midwest croplands into the Mississippi River and out into the gulf, where the fertilizer feeds giant algae blooms. As the algae dies, it settles to the ocean floor and decays, consuming oxygen and suffocating marine life.
Known as hypoxia, the oxygen depletion kills shrimp, crabs, worms and anything else that cannot escape. The dead zone has doubled since the 1980s and is expected this year to grow as large as 8,500 square miles and hug the Gulf Coast from Alabama to Texas.​

Thanks to the drought, there's less ag runoff this year, so the dead zone is smaller.

Way to go, environmentalists! You're killing the environment to save the environment!

 

[Jarlaxle]

It is an underwater optical device?

Thanks for proving you are an idiot.

Yes, I admit it: I made a TYPO! Oh, the HORROR! It's not my first, it won't be my last.

But yes, ethanol cannot go through pipelines because it is hygroscopic. (Incidentally, so is DOT3, 4, and 5.1 brake fluid.)

Strangely enough, I don't try to run my car on brake fluid either.

So is diesel fuel.

 

[Mr. H.]

The EPA mandating pollution.

Whodathunkit.

 

[editec]

EPA turns down states' request for ethanol waiver | Comcast

The Environmental Protection Agency has denied requests from several governors to waive production requirements for corn-based ethanol.

A renewable fuels law requires that 13.2 billion gallons of ethanol be produced by this year and 15 billion gallons be produced by 2015. That's good for corn farmers, but it's angered poultry, hog and cattle farmers. They say they've seen big jumps in corn-based feed costs as corn is diverted to make ethanol vehicle fuel.

States requesting the waiver say reduced corn production due to this year's drought has made the problem even worse.

All aboard the Obama fuck train, choo-choo........

NOVA, now there's a complaint that has real merit, in my opinion.


However, you note that the amount of ethanol fuel is mandated by the law.

Would you be kind enough to tell us what law, when it was passed, and while you're at it, could you tell us how the members of Congress voted for that law?


Details such that actually DO matter.

 

[Oddball]

EPA turns down states' request for ethanol waiver | Comcast

The Environmental Protection Agency has denied requests from several governors to waive production requirements for corn-based ethanol.

A renewable fuels law requires that 13.2 billion gallons of ethanol be produced by this year and 15 billion gallons be produced by 2015. That's good for corn farmers, but it's angered poultry, hog and cattle farmers. They say they've seen big jumps in corn-based feed costs as corn is diverted to make ethanol vehicle fuel.

States requesting the waiver say reduced corn production due to this year's drought has made the problem even worse.

All aboard the Obama fuck train, choo-choo........

NOVA, now there's a complaint that has real merit, in my opinion.


However, you note that the amount of ethanol fuel is mandated by the law.

Would you be kind enough to tell us what law, when it was passed, and while you're at it, could you tell us how the members of Congress voted for that law?


Details such that actually DO matter.

No, no they don't.

All we need to know is that the mandates haven't worked for anyone but Department of Energy bureaucrats and the ETOH corn farmers, who've been getting federal payola (i.e. your tax dollars) to produce something that nobody in a truly free marketplace would buy in enough quantity to make it economically viable.

Who has foisted upon us this monumental scam is irrelevant, as the perps will never be held accountable, if for no better reason than their cynical claims of good intentions.

 

[Mr. H.]

This probably deserves its own thread, it's so hilarious.

U.S. court says biofuel producers must face carbon emissions rules | Reuters

Biofuel producers will be subject to rules regulating carbon emissions, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday, in a decision hailed by environmental groups.

Gotta love it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This probably deserves its own thread, it's so hilarious.

U.S. court says biofuel producers must face carbon emissions rules | Reuters

Biofuel producers will be subject to rules regulating carbon emissions, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday, in a decision hailed by environmental groups.

Gotta love it.

This is going to be fun.

 

[Mr. H.]

As I recall, in the early 80's the EPA discovered that ethanol-blended fuels exceeded the then-adopted emissions standards. No problem, the standards were adjusted to accommodate ethanol. LOL