EPA Mandates Mindlessly...

[flacaltenn]

We are rapidly approaching the deadline for covering over 700 municipal water reservoirs nationwide.. YuP.. THe EPA has mandated that areas the size of lakes need to have a securely enclosed covering structure to prevent biological contamination from natural sources.

All that i would suppose without Enviromental Impact Reports on local species dwelling in and around the reservoirs or effects on migrating birds and water fowl. Not to mention ESTHETICS.. They are EPA -- they don't need no stinkin' EIR filed...

Review & Outlook: The EPA Doesn't Love New York - WSJ.com

You can lead the Environmental Protection Agency to water, but you can't make it think. That's what New York City has learned after suggesting changes to costly, needless regulations that the federal government is imposing on Gotham.

The regulations will cost billions, are "truly burdensome" and almost entirely useless, says New York City environmental commissioner Cas Holloway, who wrote a 15-page letter to the EPA explaining what is wrong with its analysis.

Take the mandate governing Hillview, a 90-acre, 900-million gallon reservoir in Yonkers, north of the city. The EPA wants the city to build a $1.6 billion-plus cover to prevent contamination by cryptosporidium, a water-born pathogen that causes diarrhea.

There's one problem. The pathogen hasn't been found in the reservoir despite years of tests and is barely present in the city, with about 100 confirmed cases of illness each year due to the little critter. Mr. Holloway says the EPA "inexplicably" claims that covering the reservoir would prevent between 112,00 and 365,000 cases annually, which is "off by several incidents of magnitude." . . . .

Don't bother them with water supply safety PRIORITIES -- or even FACTS and SCIENCE.. THEY ARE THE EPA.... And you will comply NOW!!

 

[flacaltenn]

So is this defensible in any way?

Are they fixing a crisis of epic proportion?

Or is it just heaping on a load of obligations to "clean water" without prioritizing or budgeting?

 

[martybegan]

So is this defensible in any way?

Are they fixing a crisis of epic proportion?

Or is it just heaping on a load of obligations to "clean water" without prioritizing or budgeting?

There could be a problem in some areas, especially if the reservoir is small or really shallow.

In NYC there is a plan to cover Hillview reservoir, at a cost of 1.6 BILLION dollars. In this case, in my opinion, the money can be better spend elsewhere. As a disclaimer i work for a company that could benefit from this, either in design or construction. Even so I think they could get more bang for thier buck upgrading wastewater plants in the watershed, or improving chlorination for the water as it leaves the reservoir.

The reservoir is chlorinated, and the water is re-chlorinated before entering the mains, which is sufficent in my opinion.

Remember, if you live in NYC your water comes from upstate lakes, so in any even you are already drinking very dilute, bird poop, as well as fish piss and poop.

 

[uscitizen]

You mean that EPA that Nixon formed?

 

[martybegan]

You mean that EPA that Nixon formed?

Ah the logical fallacy of argumentum ad extremum, or "Since someone opposes this particular rule by the EPA, they must therefore oppose the EPA altogether."

Poor form

 

[uscitizen]

You mean that EPA that Nixon formed?

Ah the logical fallacy of argumentum ad extremum, or "Since someone opposes this particular rule by the EPA, they must therefore oppose the EPA altogether."

Poor form

Ahh the title was in poor form.

"EPA Mandates Mindlessly"

I responded to the title.
I figured with a title like that there was no need to read the OP.

 

[percysunshine]

You mean that EPA that Nixon formed?

Ah the logical fallacy of argumentum ad extremum, or "Since someone opposes this particular rule by the EPA, they must therefore oppose the EPA altogether."

Poor form

Your defense of Nixon as your life hero needs more adjectives.

 

[martybegan]

You mean that EPA that Nixon formed?

Ah the logical fallacy of argumentum ad extremum, or "Since someone opposes this particular rule by the EPA, they must therefore oppose the EPA altogether."

Poor form

Your defense of Nixon as your life hero needs more adjectives.

 

[flacaltenn]

You mean that EPA that Nixon formed?

Ah the logical fallacy of argumentum ad extremum, or "Since someone opposes this particular rule by the EPA, they must therefore oppose the EPA altogether."

Poor form

Ahh the title was in poor form.

"EPA Mandates Mindlessly"

I responded to the title.
I figured with a title like that there was no need to read the OP.

I'm really hurt that you're dinging me on the title. I TRIED to be more objective, but could find no facts or reason or science to justify this regulation.. Perhaps you want to defend it? And how brilliant it is..

And no --- EPA would be about 20th on my list of agencies and bureaus we could do without. But -- I'd like to see them learn how to prioritize all of their pet projects and realize how they cause conflicts for resources at the state/local level.. But that would require more than "mindless dictation" from above.

 

[flacaltenn]

So is this defensible in any way?

Are they fixing a crisis of epic proportion?

Or is it just heaping on a load of obligations to "clean water" without prioritizing or budgeting?

There could be a problem in some areas, especially if the reservoir is small or really shallow.

In NYC there is a plan to cover Hillview reservoir, at a cost of 1.6 BILLION dollars. In this case, in my opinion, the money can be better spend elsewhere. As a disclaimer i work for a company that could benefit from this, either in design or construction. Even so I think they could get more bang for thier buck upgrading wastewater plants in the watershed, or improving chlorination for the water as it leaves the reservoir.

The reservoir is chlorinated, and the water is re-chlorinated before entering the mains, which is sufficent in my opinion.

Remember, if you live in NYC your water comes from upstate lakes, so in any even you are already drinking very dilute, bird poop, as well as fish piss and poop.

You know what W.C. fields once said..

""WATER?? Never touch the stuff. Fishes f&ck in it.. ""

Can't imagine what a 90 acre cover would LOOK LIKE. Or the amount of maintenance required on something like that. Talk about bird poop.. And soot and all kinds of nasty contaminants that are gonna collect and run off on it after heavy rains.. Got to turn a pristine water feature into an eyesore..

 

[martybegan]

So is this defensible in any way?

Are they fixing a crisis of epic proportion?

Or is it just heaping on a load of obligations to "clean water" without prioritizing or budgeting?

There could be a problem in some areas, especially if the reservoir is small or really shallow.

In NYC there is a plan to cover Hillview reservoir, at a cost of 1.6 BILLION dollars. In this case, in my opinion, the money can be better spend elsewhere. As a disclaimer i work for a company that could benefit from this, either in design or construction. Even so I think they could get more bang for thier buck upgrading wastewater plants in the watershed, or improving chlorination for the water as it leaves the reservoir.

The reservoir is chlorinated, and the water is re-chlorinated before entering the mains, which is sufficent in my opinion.

Remember, if you live in NYC your water comes from upstate lakes, so in any even you are already drinking very dilute, bird poop, as well as fish piss and poop.

You know what W.C. fields once said..

""WATER?? Never touch the stuff. Fishes f&ck in it.. ""

Can't imagine what a 90 acre cover would LOOK LIKE. Or the amount of maintenance required on something like that. Talk about bird poop.. And soot and all kinds of nasty contaminants that are gonna collect and run off on it after heavy rains.. Got to turn a pristine water feature into an eyesore..

Just verifed the number, Hillview has a capacity of 900 million gallons of water. NYC water usage ranges from 800 million to 1.1 billion gallons of water per day, which means the detention time in hillview is around 24 hours. So 1.6 billion to cover water for basically a day.

Again, the money can be spent better elsewhere.

 

[flacaltenn]

Un-f'in-Believable... One days transit thru the reservoir -- takes away money from NEEDED water system improvements, impact the life around this site without a survey --- HECK. Can it even be DONE?

Are we looking at a structure that's gonna need repair after every heavy snow or thunderstorm?

 

[martybegan]

Un-f'in-Believable... One days transit thru the reservoir -- takes away money from NEEDED water system improvements, impact the life around this site without a survey --- HECK. Can it even be DONE?

Are we looking at a structure that's gonna need repair after every heavy snow or thunderstorm?

Probably not, concrete is pretty reslient. Its still a dumb idea, but sometimes EPA goes with a one size fits all approach.

The other issue besides retention time is, of course size. One bird pooping in a 30ft diamter 50 ft deep open water tower is really far worse than 500 birds pooping in hillview.

 

[flacaltenn]

A 90 acre CONCRETE dome? Really? That's gonna be beautiful with all the graffitti on it.. Urban artist paradise...

 

[martybegan]

A 90 acre CONCRETE dome? Really? That's gonna be beautiful with all the graffitti on it.. Urban artist paradise...

Actually not a grafitti issue. As hillview is the water supply for new york getting into the reservior area requires passing through a double gate, with very armed DEP police, a double razor wire tipped fence, dogs, enough cameras to run hollywood for a day, etc.