Enhanced Interrogations Techniques

[rayboyusmc]

Now that the head of the CIA admitted we waterboarded three captives, the WhiteWashHouse now reframes the argument and says we have to adjust our "enhanced interrogation" techniques to meet the current situation.

I thought it was only US progressives that used moral relatavism.

Mukasey tried to lie his way out of his first statement that if he was waterboarded he would consider it toruture. Now he says he was talking about swimming and it would be torturous to get water up his nose.

Up his nose my butt. Not only are most of the Bush Lemmings liars, but they are even crappy liars.

Since we admit we have waterboarded, we cannot admit that it is torture even when we prosecuted Japaneses soldiers for using this same technique.

This administration has destroyed any credibility we have as a law abidning nation.

Even John McCain admitted that when he was tortured he would admit whatever they wanted. These are just a bunch of chickenshits who like power and are afraid of their own shadows.

Cheney, the dark lord, is an abomination as the president of vice, but he will retire as a multi millionaire from his "blind trust" at Haliburton. Ooops, sorry that another thread.

Pray for a Democratic President and a real majority in the House and Senate in 08. Oh, what evils would we be able to find if there were no illegal obstructions blocking US from finding all the laws the Little Cowboy has broken.

 

[Taomon]

Now that the head of the CIA admitted we waterboarded three captives, the WhiteWashHouse now reframes the argument and says we have to adjust our "enhanced interrogation" techniques to meet the current situation.

I thought it was only US progressives that used moral relatavism.

Mukasey tried to lie his way out of his first statement that if he was waterboarded he would consider it toruture. Now he says he was talking about swimming and it would be torturous to get water up his nose.

Up his nose my butt. Not only are most of the Bush Lemmings liars, but they are even crappy liars.

Since we admit we have waterboarded, we cannot admit that it is torture even when we prosecuted Japaneses soldiers for using this same technique.

This administration has destroyed any credibility we have as a law abidning nation.

Even John McCain admitted that when he was tortured he would admit whatever they wanted. These are just a bunch of chickenshits who like power and are afraid of their own shadows.

Cheney, the dark lord, is an abomination as the president of vice, but he will retire as a multi millionaire from his "blind trust" at Haliburton. Ooops, sorry that another thread.

Pray for a Democratic President and a real majority in the House and Senate in 08. Oh, what evils would we be able to find if there were no illegal obstructions blocking US from finding all the laws the Little Cowboy has broken.

What is worse is that Bush still claims the right to authorize water boarding a detainee. Congress banned it. The CIA admitted to using it on Bush's behest.

I say it is time to impeach him. Bush has made it clear time and again that the law and the Constitution mean nothing to him and continues to blatantly abuse his position.

And he must be stopped.

 

[Steerpike]

What is worse is that Bush still claims the right to authorize water boarding a detainee. Congress banned it. The CIA admitted to using it on Bush's behest.

I say it is time to impeach him. Bush has made it clear time and again that the law and the Constitution mean nothing to him and continues to blatantly abuse his position.

And he must be stopped.

He'd be practically out of office by the time an impeachment could go through to completion. Waste of time and resources.

 

[Taomon]

He'd be practically out of office by the time an impeachment could go through to completion. Waste of time and resources.

No. He should be charged with a crime and made to serve time in the Federal Pen.

 

[eots]

He described the day Hanoi Hilton guards beat him "from pillar to post, kicking and laughing and scratching. After a few hours of that, ropes were put on me and I sat that night bound with ropes."

"For the next four days, I was beaten every two to three hours by different guards . . . Finally, I reached the lowest point of my 5 1/2 years in North Vietnam. I was at the point of suicide, because I saw that I was reaching the end of my rope."

McCain was taken to an interrogation room and ordered to sign a document confessing to war crimes. "I signed it," he recalled. "It was in their language, and spoke about black crimes, and other generalities."

"I had learned what we all learned over there," McCain said. "Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."

That McCain broke under torture doesn't make him any less of an American hero. But it does prove he's wrong to claim that harsh interrogation techniques simply don't work.

 

[Taomon]

That McCain broke under torture doesn't make him any less of an American hero. But it does prove he's wrong to claim that harsh interrogation techniques simply don't work.

Wrong! He confessed to crimes he did not commit nor understand. He was broken and would confess to anything. This is the problem with torture. The intel gained during coercive sessions (torture) is unrealiable at best and simply lies at worst.

There is no ticking timebomb scenario, there is no circumstance what so ever when torture is needed or warranted. It simply does not exist.

 

[rayboyusmc]

That McCain broke under torture doesn't make him any less of an American hero. But it does prove he's wrong to claim that harsh interrogation techniques simply don't work.

Exactly as posted above. You will confess to anything, so how the fuk do you know what is true and what isn't.

The people in charge in the Bush Misadministration are cowards and have sold our world image and any moral ground we had by their cowardice, lies and lack of protection. They not only are immoral, the assholes are incompetent.

 

[Taomon]

Exactly as posted above. You will confess to anything, so how the fuk do you know what is true and what isn't.

The people in charge in the Bush Misadministration are cowards and have sold our world image and any moral ground we had by their cowardice, lies and lack of protection. They not only are immoral, the assholes are incompetent.

And they seem proud of it. House of Bush? House of Shame!

 

[Taomon]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020808B.shtml (this is a reprint from a LA Times article)

This is stemming from the White House, The CIA, the Pentagon and corporate sponsors. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt here, rather than call them evil and sadistic, I think they are simply short sighted and unethical...borderlining on immoral.

Torture, coercisive or enhanced interrogations, do not produce viable intelligence. This is a fact proven by history and psychology. The Spanish Inquisition tortured victims and history has shown that most people will say anything to stop the torment. Especially when you have interrogators telling you what they want to hear.

John McCain has also stated that after he was broken in Vietnam, he would confess to anything they wanted.

Psychological studies have also proven torture to be more sadistic and less fruitful when it comes to interrogations. The torturer will not gain insight or truths from torture, they will be told what they want to hear. This would make torture less about intelligence gathering and more about revenge and sadism.

http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=546
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15861-2004May10.html
http://www.psysr.org/tortureseminar.htm
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=20647
http://www.nyas.org/events/eventDetail.asp?eventID=7493&date=10/30/2006 7:30:00 PM

 

[rayboyusmc]

Now it is official:

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush plans to veto legislation passed by the Senate to bar the CIA from using harsh interrogation methods including waterboarding, a spokeswoman said Thursday.

"The president will veto that bill," said White House spokeswoman Dana Perino.

"The United States needs the ability to interrogate effectively, within the law, captured Al-Qaeda terrorists."

The Democratic-led Senate voted 51-45 on Wednesday in favor of a bill calling for the Central Intelligence Agency to adopt the US Army Field Manual, which forbids waterboarding and other types of coercive interrogation methods.

Thay have to do this. Otherwise they will leave themselves open to being prosecuted for crimes they have comitted. Nice touch. Break the law and then go back and change the law.

We convicted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding then, but it's okay now even if it gives doubtful information.

These are the most slimely dick weasel cowards that have been in charge since I don't know when.

Almost as bad as lying about a BJ.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No. He should be charged with a crime and made to serve time in the Federal Pen.

Except an Impeachment wouldn't do that. The ONLY punishment that can occur from an Impeachment is removal from Office. In order to put him in Federal Prison he would then have to be charged with and convicted of an actual violation of Federal law.

Seeing as Clinton pretty much set the bar for that, it aint gonna happen and if it does the Democrats will lose big in any election after it does.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Now it is official:



Thay have to do this. Otherwise they will leave themselves open to being prosecuted for crimes they have comitted. Nice touch. Break the law and then go back and change the law.

We convicted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding then, but it's okay now even if it gives doubtful information.

These are the most slimely dick weasel cowards that have been in charge since I don't know when.

Almost as bad as lying about a BJ.

In this country one can not be retroactively punished. If it is not against the law NOW and you do it and a law is passed tomorrow making it illegal, you STILL can not be tried nor convicted unless you break the NEW law AFTER it goes into effect.

 

[rayboyusmc]

In this country one can not be retroactively punished. If it is not against the law NOW and you do it and a law is passed tomorrow making it illegal, you STILL can not be tried nor convicted unless you break the NEW law AFTER it goes into effect.

Nice try Gunny, but that ain't what happened. The laws were on the books when they broke them such as FISA, now they want to go back and say the laws didn't count then. It has always been against US law to torture. You get around it by changing the definition of torture.

I guess anytime I break a law, all I have to do is have the power to say "do over?"

Please, that is pushing it even for you.

 

[Taomon]

Except an Impeachment wouldn't do that. The ONLY punishment that can occur from an Impeachment is removal from Office. In order to put him in Federal Prison he would then have to be charged with and convicted of an actual violation of Federal law.

Seeing as Clinton pretty much set the bar for that, it aint gonna happen and if it does the Democrats will lose big in any election after it does.

Actually no, an impeachment can also include criminal charges in relation to the impeachment hearings. Remember that Nixon was pardoned.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Seeing as Clinton pretty much set the bar for that,

Right, for the rest of your life, no matter what type of crime your side committs, Clinton will have set the bar.

I don't remember 4000 dead American Military under Clinton. I don't remember what could be over 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians under Clinton.

I don't remember them losing 9 fucking billion dollars in cash under Clinton and then saying it wasn't really their fault.

I don't remember Clinton's father owning a major arms dealership that profitted off a war his son started.

What bullshit.

 

[Annie]

Right, for the rest of your life, no matter what type of crime your side committs, Clinton will have set the bar.

I don't remember 4000 dead American Military under Clinton. I don't remember what could be over 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians under Clinton.

I don't remember them losing 9 fucking billion dollars in cash under Clinton and then saying it wasn't really their fault.

I don't remember Clinton's father owning a major arms dealership that profitted off a war his son started.

What bullshit.

Do you really believe that things are going to change via Obama getting elected? A new CIC is going to change all that concerns you?

 

[Taomon]

Do you really believe that things are going to change via Obama getting elected? A new CIC is going to change all that concerns you?

I don't personally trust any of the candidates to make any positive changes. But the people I have been talking to at work and in the streets all see hope in Obama. I think that no matter who gets elected, it will be more of the same. But I will say this, if anyone brings positive change and reform, it will be Obama.