Energy Independence - Why liberals are against it.

[MatthewAycock]

Having ties to the energy sector, I find it troubling that we are unable to achieve energy independence in this nation. The problem is less about our ability and more about our inhibitions.

1. Oil - We have lots. Let's get it while it's available and bridge the switch to something better.
2. Wind - Stop protests of windfarms. You can't argue that they are bad for the environment when compared to other options.
3. Solar - I'm shocked to say, but for some reason the liberals protest these too.... why?
4. Nuclear - Quite possibly the safest of plants, and clearly the most efficient, yet we don't build them because they are "bad".

The reason we don't have the options we seek is that it would give large groups of people nothing to complain about. They would instead have to find jobs, something they aren't accustomed to. Further, Al Gore would not make money off his carbon offset credit scam, which is quite possibly the most brilliant scam I have seen in my lifetime.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

 

[editec]

Energy Independence - Why liberals are against it.

The whole truth --why partisan idiots are against it.

 

[garyd]

You want wind fine don't give me wind farms that will tie up more acreage and further aggravate the housing situation in this country, go small scale give people tax credits for placing small wind turbines on their houses. Solar should be done the same way and the latest mmodels of solar cells are much more efficient and getting better all the time.

 

[alan1]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Who needs to protest wind farms when you have Ted Kennedy just deciding that they shouldn't exist?
Who needs to protest solar when you have Dianne Fienstien deciding they shouldn't exist?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Who needs to protest wind farms when you have Ted Kennedy just deciding that they shouldn't exist?
Who needs to protest solar when you have Dianne Fienstien deciding they shouldn't exist?

WTF? What's their reasoning behind that?? Are they just nuts??

 

[MatthewAycock]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Wind Watch: Groups protest wind turbine eagle kills
Nevada utility finally meets state's solar-energy mandate - Business - ReviewJournal.com

Just two sources.

 

[garyd]

In the latter case saving the desert, in the former saving migrating birds... oh and likely the thought that Pickens stands to get richer off of those wind farms and more politically powerful as well probably impacted the decison...

 

[alan1]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Who needs to protest wind farms when you have Ted Kennedy just deciding that they shouldn't exist?
Who needs to protest solar when you have Dianne Fienstien deciding they shouldn't exist?

WTF? What's their reasoning behind that?? Are they just nuts??

You answered your own question.
But hey, they are liberals after all. What else did you expect?

 

[Chris]

You want wind fine don't give me wind farms that will tie up more acreage and further aggravate the housing situation in this country, go small scale give people tax credits for placing small wind turbines on their houses. Solar should be done the same way and the latest mmodels of solar cells are much more efficient and getting better all the time.

Earth4Energy.com - Make a Wind Generator at home with my step by step instructions

 

[KittenKoder]

Having ties to the energy sector, I find it troubling that we are unable to achieve energy independence in this nation. The problem is less about our ability and more about our inhibitions.

1. Oil - We have lots. Let's get it while it's available and bridge the switch to something better.
2. Wind - Stop protests of windfarms. You can't argue that they are bad for the environment when compared to other options.
3. Solar - I'm shocked to say, but for some reason the liberals protest these too.... why?
4. Nuclear - Quite possibly the safest of plants, and clearly the most efficient, yet we don't build them because they are "bad".

The reason we don't have the options we seek is that it would give large groups of people nothing to complain about. They would instead have to find jobs, something they aren't accustomed to. Further, Al Gore would not make money off his carbon offset credit scam, which is quite possibly the most brilliant scam I have seen in my lifetime.

What the hell ... you're babbling now.

 

[Seraega]

You want wind fine don't give me wind farms that will tie up more acreage and further aggravate the housing situation in this country, go small scale give people tax credits for placing small wind turbines on their houses. Solar should be done the same way and the latest mmodels of solar cells are much more efficient and getting better all the time.

There's no reason not to do both. I'd say codes on new homes should include -near- energy independence. I'm not sure what you mean about housing situation though. We need to stop urban sprawl, not encourage it. If people don't want to live near a wind farm I say surround every major city with gigantic turbines and keep them locked in.

 

[Old Rocks]

Energy Independence - Why liberals are against it.

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Having ties to the energy sector, I find it troubling that we are unable to achieve energy independence in this nation. The problem is less about our ability and more about our inhibitions.

1. Oil - We have lots. Let's get it while it's available and bridge the switch to something better.

Pure Bullshit. We have 3% of the world's oil reserves. We use 25% of the world's oil. The rest is imported from other nations. Many of those nation's do not have our best interests in mind.



2. Wind - Stop protests of windfarms. You can't argue that they are bad for the environment when compared to other options.

What twaddle. Look on this board, and see who is saying "full steam ahead" on wind, and who is stating that they don't like the wind farms and want to see them stopped.



3. Solar - I'm shocked to say, but for some reason the liberals protest these too.... why?

Bullshit. While appropriate siting is an issue, this is another full steam ahead issue for "liberals". There are hundreds, if not thousands of square miles of commercial rooftops to place solar on. We lose about 40% of electrical energy in transmission, so just the siting of solar power next to its use saves far more than the indicated output of the solar.



4. Nuclear - Quite possibly the safest of plants, and clearly the most efficient, yet we don't build them because they are "bad".

Nuclear is the most expensive of the alternatives. It is also a point source, more sucseptible to interuption than wind, geothermal, or the other alternatives. And people do not trust the nuclear industry. We were originally sold on nuclear with the talk of absolute safety, and that it would be so cheap that the energy would not have to be metered. What happened was it increased the cost, and Three Mile Island showed us that it was not that safe in the hands of the private utilities.l

The reason we don't have the options we seek is that it would give large groups of people nothing to complain about. They would instead have to find jobs, something they aren't accustomed to. Further, Al Gore would not make money off his carbon offset credit scam, which is quite possibly the most brilliant scam I have seen in my lifetime.

Hey dingbat, right now there are three things holding up the expansion of wind and other alternatives. First is the credit crunch. Second, with wind, is the manufacturing capicity for the turbines, and the third is the limits of our present grid. All three are being addressed by the new administration. Another factor was the subsidies that coal and oil previously received. Now that the alternatives are getting those subsidies, we will see further growth.

But most important, is the establishment of a new grid. One that has legs into the areas where there are ample alternative resources. And the upgrading of the present grid with 21th century technology and controls, rather than running with the mid-20th century tech that the present grid has. Creating a truly national grid, as we created the Interstate System of highways is a must, if we are to have true energy independence.

 

[Old Rocks]

You want wind fine don't give me wind farms that will tie up more acreage and further aggravate the housing situation in this country, go small scale give people tax credits for placing small wind turbines on their houses. Solar should be done the same way and the latest mmodels of solar cells are much more efficient and getting better all the time.

What on earth are you talking about concerning the big wind turbines? I have yet to see one in a housing area. And we have thousands of them in Oregon, now. Most are in the wheat ranchs or rocky hill tops. And in the wheat farms, they grow the wheat right up to the bases, which take up very little room.

With solar, I agree with you. Except that the biggest producer of solar, commercially, will be the big commercial building with acres of roofs. But solar for the individual homeowner is an excellant idea, and, here in Oregon, we have a $6000 tax credit to get this off the ground.

There are some states, such as Montana, Wyoming, and both Dakotas, that have huge wind potential. There are other states, like Oregon, that have areas that are virtually uninhabited that have solar, wind, and geothermal potential. The combination of individual generation, rooftop solar, and commercial generation, wind, geothermal, solar, thermal solar, wave, tidal, and slow current are more than enough to supply all our energy needs. Combine these with new energy saving technologies, and a ballast of several nuclear plants, and you have a grid that can be chopped into segments, and still survive, or can ship power region to region as needed.

 

[Old Rocks]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Who needs to protest wind farms when you have Ted Kennedy just deciding that they shouldn't exist?
Who needs to protest solar when you have Dianne Fienstien deciding they shouldn't exist?

NIMBY is a issue with the Kennedys. Too bad, put in the turbines.

As for Feinstein's objections to the big solar farms, I do not know enough to comment one way or the other on the siting.

I do know that we have some prime wind areas here in Oregon that will never be used because they are visual treasures. However, that is irrelevant, because there are tens of thousands of sites that are not.

 

[del]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Who needs to protest wind farms when you have Ted Kennedy just deciding that they shouldn't exist?
Who needs to protest solar when you have Dianne Fienstien deciding they shouldn't exist?

NIMBY is a issue with the Kennedys. Too bad, put in the turbines.

As for Feinstein's objections to the big solar farms, I do not know enough to comment one way or the other on the siting.

I do know that we have some prime wind areas here in Oregon that will never be used because they are visual treasures. However, that is irrelevant, because there are tens of thousands of sites that are not.

of course it's irrelevant. it's YOUR backyard.

 

[Old Rocks]

Who the fuck protests wind and solar power? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that. I will admit that THAT would be getting ridiculous. We might as well give up and stop eating. The thing with Nuclear power is what it has done before to places... the risk of failure is pretty horrifying and ingrained in people's minds, though personally I think with technology nowadays, with safer and standardized power plant designs across the board, that would be a good option, at least much better than oil.

Oil is the devil. It's our species' collective drug. The whole planet runs on it, and it's fucking us, and it's gonna fuck us more the more we use it and the faster we get off it, the easier the withdrawal's gonna be. And yeah, carbon credits are a sick scheme. Carbon Tax >>>> Cap-and-Trade, by far.

Wind Watch: Groups protest wind turbine eagle kills
Nevada utility finally meets state's solar-energy mandate - Business - ReviewJournal.com

Just two sources.

Ineresting. Seems to me to just be an engineering problem. Put some kind of noise maker, or pattern the blades so that the Eagles see them. Here in Oregon, the mill have less of a bird kill than the wires that support radio transmission towers.

The second article had nothing about anyone protesting the alternatives, but rather why the utilites did not meet the goals for alternative projects. A matter of building time. And the goals were met when the new projects went online. Seems to me to be a success story.

 

[Old Rocks]

Who needs to protest wind farms when you have Ted Kennedy just deciding that they shouldn't exist?
Who needs to protest solar when you have Dianne Fienstien deciding they shouldn't exist?

NIMBY is a issue with the Kennedys. Too bad, put in the turbines.

As for Feinstein's objections to the big solar farms, I do not know enough to comment one way or the other on the siting.

I do know that we have some prime wind areas here in Oregon that will never be used because they are visual treasures. However, that is irrelevant, because there are tens of thousands of sites that are not.

of course it's irrelevant. it's YOUR backyard.

Del, you are one ignorant bastard. Yes, some of these projects are in my 'backyard', as I consider all of Eastern Oregon to be my backyard.

The specific area that I refered to as visual treasures were the ridges of our mountain ranges. However, there are thousand of basalt ridges all over Oregon, many of them totally isolated from anybody, that have excellant wind potential. These same areas also have Geothermal and solar.

 

[KittenKoder]

NIMBY is a issue with the Kennedys. Too bad, put in the turbines.

As for Feinstein's objections to the big solar farms, I do not know enough to comment one way or the other on the siting.

I do know that we have some prime wind areas here in Oregon that will never be used because they are visual treasures. However, that is irrelevant, because there are tens of thousands of sites that are not.

of course it's irrelevant. it's YOUR backyard.

Del, you are one ignorant bastard. Yes, some of these projects are in my 'backyard', as I consider all of Eastern Oregon to be my backyard.

The specific area that I refered to as visual treasures were the ridges of our mountain ranges. However, there are thousand of basalt ridges all over Oregon, many of them totally isolated from anybody, that have excellant wind potential. These same areas also have Geothermal and solar.

So ... when will Oregon stop siphoning power from our grid?

 

[Old Rocks]

In the latter case saving the desert, in the former saving migrating birds... oh and likely the thought that Pickens stands to get richer off of those wind farms and more politically powerful as well probably impacted the decison...

Well, our wheat farmers are not getting rich off of the money they get for the turbines on their farms, but they are doing much better, financially, than they have in the past. And that is a good thing, there are no more hard working people.