End DADT

[ConHog]

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Really?

So you never talked about your wife while in the military?

Because thats explicitly saying you are straight.

Being open about being gay doesn't mean you are going around telling everyone you are gay, it means being able to fucking mention it without getting kicked out of the military. If you all think its no big deal, then try going the rest of your life without ever mentioning your spouse.

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

Come on brother, I respect your service but your being irrational here. Do you really not see the difference between wanting to include your "partner" in activites and flaunting your gayness?

Let's say you have a company picnic and 2 of your fellow marines who you had no idea were gay showed up with their "partners" Now one couple is dressed like everyone else and behaves as everyone else, they're not PDAing, or anything like that, in fact its barely obvious that they are together. Now the other guy on the other hand is in bright pink shorts and he and his partner are all over each other and obviously doing everything but having sex right in front of you.

Do both couple offend you equally? Do you punish the one for the actions of the other??? Come on man.....

and also tell me, what if it was just decided that your wife couldn't meet you as you came home from deployment for some arbitrary reason? Would you be happy?

Finally, let me ask you this. If you're in a fire fight , and some guy saves your life, do you care at ALL if he's gay?

 

[ConHog]

You have to consider how their job might be impacted? That v. getting dishonorably discharged?

Sorry but the consequences are vastly, vastly different. And the kind of fear that goes into trying to hide something like that takes a daily psychological toll.

Umm what? I'm in Iraq and someone on my team decides they don't want to be there anymore so they tell our commanding officer they're gay, they get sent home, suddenly I have one less body helping me fight insurgents. Maybe that gets me killed. You don't think that worries people?

And it happens, ALOT.

Yep. Happened back in the mid 80's as well. If a person stated they were gay prior to DADT? Usually they were discharged within 48 hours.

Now? A cushy ride back to the States for a board.

Getting rid of DADT and allowing gays to serve openly would stop that problem.

Agreed, but it doesn't change the fact that Niki was wrong when she claimed that straight military members aren't affected by DADT

 

[Gunny]

Yes, I have been full time National Guard since the day I graduated HS. Not weekend duty, it's my regular job.


OH, as for no one says they can't serve. COme on man, they can serve as long as no one finds out they're gay? What if it were say ok beer drinkers can serve as long as no one ever finds out they drink beer? Fundamentally what is the difference? No, I don't want a dude in pink cammo and a boa next me to me a fight, but if I'm in a fight and the guy next to me shooting at the enemy just happened to be gay. I don't care................... His orientation is between him and God.

That would be incorrect. You cannot be kicked out for being gay. You can be court martialed for engaging in homosexual behavior.

Your view is simplistic. How are you going to feel about sharing a fighting hole or 2-man tent with that gay guy? Or berthing on a ship? How about submarine duty?

Oh well you military boys are so precious. You might feel a bit uncomfortable. That totally justifies discrimination.

Same fucking arguments as when blacks joined. Same fucking arguments.

You have no argument and comparing ethnicity to a behavior doesn't swing.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

I think what matters about DADT and one of the main reasons why I think it is a horrible policy is if you're outed beyond your own control. You would still be kicked out. Of course, there are several other reasons too.

A personal is not easily "outed" under DADT, just because somebody calls somebody else a fag doesn't mean the chain of command automatically believes that person is gay, like all allegations they have to be proven. Its the responsibility of the individual to keep their private life their business and I'm not just talking about being gay, thats goes for any and everything, you slip up and get caught thats your behind.

 

[Nik]

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Really?

So you never talked about your wife while in the military?

Because thats explicitly saying you are straight.

Being open about being gay doesn't mean you are going around telling everyone you are gay, it means being able to fucking mention it without getting kicked out of the military. If you all think its no big deal, then try going the rest of your life without ever mentioning your spouse.

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

1. They can, actually. Which was just stated by John McHugh. And somehow I suspect he knows more about the law than you do.

FOXNews.com - Army Secretary: Soldiers Can Still Be Discharged for Admitting They Are Gay

2. Right. Because being able to mention your spouse is "flaunting" it?

3. Its legal in all 50 states to have a same-sex partner and discuss him/her.

You don't have to talk about your sex-life with her. But by saying you have a female spouse EXPLICITLY says you are straight. You can say "my wife went to the grocery store" and although you aren't saying your sexual orientation, you are explicitly stating you are straight.

If a guy says "my boyfriend/husband went to the grocery store" is he discussing his sex life? No. He is discussing a banal act by someone he is in a relationship with.

 

[Nik]

That would be incorrect. You cannot be kicked out for being gay. You can be court martialed for engaging in homosexual behavior.

Your view is simplistic. How are you going to feel about sharing a fighting hole or 2-man tent with that gay guy? Or berthing on a ship? How about submarine duty?

Oh well you military boys are so precious. You might feel a bit uncomfortable. That totally justifies discrimination.

Same fucking arguments as when blacks joined. Same fucking arguments.

You have no argument and comparing ethnicity to a behavior doesn't swing.

Oh, well, if its just a behavior, then you wouldn't mind giving up your wife and only being able to date guys then, right?

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Really?

So you never talked about your wife while in the military?

Because thats explicitly saying you are straight.

Being open about being gay doesn't mean you are going around telling everyone you are gay, it means being able to fucking mention it without getting kicked out of the military. If you all think its no big deal, then try going the rest of your life without ever mentioning your spouse.

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

1. They can, actually. Which was just stated by John McHugh. And somehow I suspect he knows more about the law than you do.

FOXNews.com - Army Secretary: Soldiers Can Still Be Discharged for Admitting They Are Gay

2. Right. Because being able to mention your spouse is "flaunting" it?

3. Its legal in all 50 states to have a same-sex partner and discuss him/her.

You don't have to talk about your sex-life with her. But by saying you have a female spouse EXPLICITLY says you are straight. You can say "my wife went to the grocery store" and although you aren't saying your sexual orientation, you are explicitly stating you are straight.

If a guy says "my boyfriend/husband went to the grocery store" is he discussing his sex life? No. He is discussing a banal act by someone he is in a relationship with.

Give one reason why its necessary to state whether one is gay or not while serving and talking about who you're dating/dated, kissed and want to marry is not necessary to serve.

 

[Nik]

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

1. They can, actually. Which was just stated by John McHugh. And somehow I suspect he knows more about the law than you do.

FOXNews.com - Army Secretary: Soldiers Can Still Be Discharged for Admitting They Are Gay

2. Right. Because being able to mention your spouse is "flaunting" it?

3. Its legal in all 50 states to have a same-sex partner and discuss him/her.

You don't have to talk about your sex-life with her. But by saying you have a female spouse EXPLICITLY says you are straight. You can say "my wife went to the grocery store" and although you aren't saying your sexual orientation, you are explicitly stating you are straight.

If a guy says "my boyfriend/husband went to the grocery store" is he discussing his sex life? No. He is discussing a banal act by someone he is in a relationship with.

Give one reason why its necessary to state whether one is gay or not while serving and talking about who you're dating/dated, kissed and want to marry is not necessary to serve.

If its not necessary, then lets ban straights from doing it as well, eh?

If you reveal your orientation, straight or gay, you get kicked out.

 

[ConHog]

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

1. They can, actually. Which was just stated by John McHugh. And somehow I suspect he knows more about the law than you do.

FOXNews.com - Army Secretary: Soldiers Can Still Be Discharged for Admitting They Are Gay

2. Right. Because being able to mention your spouse is "flaunting" it?

3. Its legal in all 50 states to have a same-sex partner and discuss him/her.

You don't have to talk about your sex-life with her. But by saying you have a female spouse EXPLICITLY says you are straight. You can say "my wife went to the grocery store" and although you aren't saying your sexual orientation, you are explicitly stating you are straight.

If a guy says "my boyfriend/husband went to the grocery store" is he discussing his sex life? No. He is discussing a banal act by someone he is in a relationship with.

Give one reason why its necessary to state whether one is gay or not while serving and talking about who you're dating/dated, kissed and want to marry is not necessary to serve.

You're missing the larger point.

Sargent Smith is at a bar off post on a Friday night with his partner, out of uniform. Sargent Jones takes a pic of them holding hands and turns it into commanding officer. BAM Sargent Smith is out of the military. Now what justice is served by that?

 

[Nik]

Stories from the Frontlines: Former Air Force Capt. Beth Schissel | Blog | Servicemembers Legal Defense Network

On the morning of Tuesday, September 11th, 2001, I was monitoring the events unfolding in New York City while tending to patients in the Emergency Department at Duke University Medical Center. The leadership of the department was activating our disaster plan to accept as many patients as possible from the New York area. All too quickly, it became evident that there would be no need for our hospital to activate.

I knew that brutal attack would not go unanswered. I knew my leadership and medical skills soon would be needed to care for those who would be sent into harm’s way. Naively, I thought that mission needs would trump my being a lesbian, but a few weeks later, I received a notice in the mail. It was signed on September 10th, 2001 by the Secretary of the Air Force. I was discharged.

My military career was over.

I was a proud member of the tenth class of women to graduate from the United States Air Force Academy. I graduated in the top 15 percent of my class and was named Academic All-American/All-American in women’s golf. I entered active duty service as an acquisition officer and just three years later, was selected to the commanding general’s staff while only a first lieutenant.

With the encouragement of my mentor, the future Air Force Surgeon General, I applied and was accepted to medical school on a military scholarship. Before I left for medical school, I was honored by two retired women general officers – each gave me one of their stars and told me they planned to be there to provide the match to the pair.

While in medical school, I fell in love with my best friend. While most people are thrilled to have found their true love, their soul mate, I agonized over it. That’s because my friend, my love, and my soul mate was a woman.

It was the fall semester of my final year of medical school. I was forced to make a life-altering decision. For nearly two years, I had been stalked. My home had been broken into and I had received credible threats to be outed by a civilian with no attachment to the military. I had to take control of the situation for my safety, for my sanity, and to protect my honorable service record.

The hardest call I ever had to make was to my mentor. I was ashamed to have let him down and to have wasted his efforts in molding my career. I felt like I had to apologize for breathing the same air as the rest of the world. I was devastated that I couldn’t continue to be part of the air force family who’d raised me and counted on me.

My mentor was gracious and kind. He didn’t care that I was a lesbian and considered it a mistake to let me go. He assured me that I would only disappoint him if I didn’t use all I’d been given to make a difference in this world.

I have done my best. I have supported two of my step children as they made their way from West Point to Iraq. I have cared for the sick and injured children of my community as they arrive in the emergency department.

But it will never be the same as the best I could have given in uniform. Every day my country is at war, I think about my military family; I am not there for them. Every day, I am reminded that, simply because of who I love, my country has said I’m not good enough to help save the lives of our women and men in uniform.

Mr. President, thank you for helping us end “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” this year.

Respectfully,

Former Capt. Beth Schissel
United States Air Force

How is that ok? How can you people support that?

 

[Gunny]

Really?

So you never talked about your wife while in the military?

Because thats explicitly saying you are straight.

Being open about being gay doesn't mean you are going around telling everyone you are gay, it means being able to fucking mention it without getting kicked out of the military. If you all think its no big deal, then try going the rest of your life without ever mentioning your spouse.

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

Come on brother, I respect your service but your being irrational here. Do you really not see the difference between wanting to include your "partner" in activites and flaunting your gayness?

Let's say you have a company picnic and 2 of your fellow marines who you had no idea were gay showed up with their "partners" Now one couple is dressed like everyone else and behaves as everyone else, they're not PDAing, or anything like that, in fact its barely obvious that they are together. Now the other guy on the other hand is in bright pink shorts and he and his partner are all over each other and obviously doing everything but having sex right in front of you.

Do both couple offend you equally? Do you punish the one for the actions of the other??? Come on man.....

and also tell me, what if it was just decided that your wife couldn't meet you as you came home from deployment for some arbitrary reason? Would you be happy?

Finally, let me ask you this. If you're in a fire fight , and some guy saves your life, do you care at ALL if he's gay?

I am not being irrational at all. I'm disagreeing with your argument.

Your argument does not take the conditions of the reality of the situation into account. Nor does it take my position into account.

Gays already serve in the military. What they do on their off time in the privacy of their own home is not my business. How they affect the Marines I am responsible for IS my business.

Whether you think Marines should beat people up is irrelevant to the situation. Marines are homophobic, as Marines and as an institution and homosexuals disrupt unit cohesion. If it was otherwise, I would think differently, but it is not.

I'm about accomplishing the mission with as little loss as possible and I will get rid of anything that hampers that. You stick a bunch of Marines in the sardine can that troop berthing is and have them knowing some of the Marines are gay, you're asking for trouble. At a minimum, those gay Marines will be ostracized; that last being exactly the opposite effect desired.

 

[ConHog]

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

Come on brother, I respect your service but your being irrational here. Do you really not see the difference between wanting to include your "partner" in activites and flaunting your gayness?

Let's say you have a company picnic and 2 of your fellow marines who you had no idea were gay showed up with their "partners" Now one couple is dressed like everyone else and behaves as everyone else, they're not PDAing, or anything like that, in fact its barely obvious that they are together. Now the other guy on the other hand is in bright pink shorts and he and his partner are all over each other and obviously doing everything but having sex right in front of you.

Do both couple offend you equally? Do you punish the one for the actions of the other??? Come on man.....

and also tell me, what if it was just decided that your wife couldn't meet you as you came home from deployment for some arbitrary reason? Would you be happy?

Finally, let me ask you this. If you're in a fire fight , and some guy saves your life, do you care at ALL if he's gay?

I am not being irrational at all. I'm disagreeing with your argument.

Your argument does not take the conditions of the reality of the situation into account. Nor does it take my position into account.

Gays already serve in the military. What they do on their off time in the privacy of their own home is not my business. How they affect the Marines I am responsible for IS my business.

Whether you think Marines should beat people up is irrelevant to the situation. Marines are homophobic, as Marines and as an institution and homosexuals disrupt unit cohesion. If it was otherwise, I would think differently, but it is not.

I'm about accomplishing the mission with as little loss as possible and I will get rid of anything that hampers that. You stick a bunch of Marines in the sardine can that troop berthing is and have them knowing some of the Marines are gay, you're asking for trouble. At a minimum, those gay Marines will be ostracized; that last being exactly the opposite effect desired.

Sorry, but "marines are homophobic" doesn't cut it.