End DADT

[Gunny]

Congress is set to vote on the Murphy Amendment this week. This bill repeals the discriminatory "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for all armed forces, and would prevent the discharge of patriots willing to fight for us merely because they are GLBT folks.

The US and Turkey are the ONLY NATO countries which discriminate against gays and lesbians in the military, and over 10,000 armed forces members have been discharged for being "openly gay". I don't think it's right to ask someone to risk his life for me and then demand that he hide who he really is.

As predictable as mud after a rain, the GOP has vowed to fight this bill with all their might. Tell your senators and representatives -- especially if they are Republicans -- that Americans love ALL our fighting men and women, and that they are fighting to protect a nation that will not discriminate against them if they survive and return home.

The Human Rights Campaign has a widget you can use to contact your elected officials easily and quickly, and to add a note about this to your page on facebook or twitter.

HRC | Human Rights Campaign | Home

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

 

[ConHog]

Congress is set to vote on the Murphy Amendment this week. This bill repeals the discriminatory "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for all armed forces, and would prevent the discharge of patriots willing to fight for us merely because they are GLBT folks.

The US and Turkey are the ONLY NATO countries which discriminate against gays and lesbians in the military, and over 10,000 armed forces members have been discharged for being "openly gay". I don't think it's right to ask someone to risk his life for me and then demand that he hide who he really is.

As predictable as mud after a rain, the GOP has vowed to fight this bill with all their might. Tell your senators and representatives -- especially if they are Republicans -- that Americans love ALL our fighting men and women, and that they are fighting to protect a nation that will not discriminate against them if they survive and return home.

The Human Rights Campaign has a widget you can use to contact your elected officials easily and quickly, and to add a note about this to your page on facebook or twitter.

HRC | Human Rights Campaign | Home

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Gunny, how many homosexuals do you really think are going to be out there flaunting their gayness if t hey are in the military? Sure there are the flaming queers that even gay people hate, but we both know that generally the military attracts people cut from a higher cloth, people who are gay sure, but that doesn't mean they want to grab your ass, or make out in front of you or anything of the sort. They simply want the right to have their partner or whatever come and greet them when they come home from deployment, and I think you would agree it's deplorable that official policy would prevent that, or the right to have a dinner with their friend and not worry about losing their career over it.


From a religious view I can see where some would object to this, but from a military readiness view, this is a silly argument.

 

[Nik]

Congress is set to vote on the Murphy Amendment this week. This bill repeals the discriminatory "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for all armed forces, and would prevent the discharge of patriots willing to fight for us merely because they are GLBT folks.

The US and Turkey are the ONLY NATO countries which discriminate against gays and lesbians in the military, and over 10,000 armed forces members have been discharged for being "openly gay". I don't think it's right to ask someone to risk his life for me and then demand that he hide who he really is.

As predictable as mud after a rain, the GOP has vowed to fight this bill with all their might. Tell your senators and representatives -- especially if they are Republicans -- that Americans love ALL our fighting men and women, and that they are fighting to protect a nation that will not discriminate against them if they survive and return home.

The Human Rights Campaign has a widget you can use to contact your elected officials easily and quickly, and to add a note about this to your page on facebook or twitter.

HRC | Human Rights Campaign | Home

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Really?

So you never talked about your wife while in the military?

Because thats explicitly saying you are straight.

Being open about being gay doesn't mean you are going around telling everyone you are gay, it means being able to fucking mention it without getting kicked out of the military. If you all think its no big deal, then try going the rest of your life without ever mentioning your spouse.

 

[Nik]

Congress is set to vote on the Murphy Amendment this week. This bill repeals the discriminatory "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for all armed forces, and would prevent the discharge of patriots willing to fight for us merely because they are GLBT folks.

The US and Turkey are the ONLY NATO countries which discriminate against gays and lesbians in the military, and over 10,000 armed forces members have been discharged for being "openly gay". I don't think it's right to ask someone to risk his life for me and then demand that he hide who he really is.

As predictable as mud after a rain, the GOP has vowed to fight this bill with all their might. Tell your senators and representatives -- especially if they are Republicans -- that Americans love ALL our fighting men and women, and that they are fighting to protect a nation that will not discriminate against them if they survive and return home.

The Human Rights Campaign has a widget you can use to contact your elected officials easily and quickly, and to add a note about this to your page on facebook or twitter.

HRC | Human Rights Campaign | Home

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

And I think a bunch of straight people who have never had to actually deal with the consequences of DADT shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

 

[ConHog]

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

And I think a bunch of straight people who have never had to actually deal with the consequences of DADT shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

NOw wait a minute. Every military member since this law was passed have had to deal with the consequences of it.

 

[Gunny]

Jesus, I am a Chritsian, I don't think people are just born homosexual, I am also a 20 year military veteran. Just let them serve. Seriously, will there be a few who try to grab ass and such? Sure there will be, guess what, there are some women who try to play grab ass with men, and lots of men who try to play grab ass with women. But by and large we're a professional military and very few of the grab assers stick around long.

In my personal opinion homosexuality is a sin, but it is not a crime and shouldnt' preclude anyone from serving if that's their desire.

I've served two tours in Iraq, one tour on the Mexican border and several deployments in the state of Arkansas and I call tell you, I never not once thought "gee I wonder if the dude next to me is gay."

Let em serve openly, who cares?

Are you in the NG? Seeing as how you stated you served deployments in Arkansas, I have to assume that you are not in the regular military.

Homosexuality doesn't preclude anyone from serving. Really getting tired of hearing this! Quit trying to make it appear as though DADT requires all homosexuals to stay out of the military! It doesn't!

Too easy.

 

[Nik]

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

And I think a bunch of straight people who have never had to actually deal with the consequences of DADT shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

NOw wait a minute. Every military member since this law was passed have had to deal with the consequences of it.

Really? How exactly?

 

[Gunny]

Jesus, I am a Chritsian, I don't think people are just born homosexual, I am also a 20 year military veteran. Just let them serve. Seriously, will there be a few who try to grab ass and such? Sure there will be, guess what, there are some women who try to play grab ass with men, and lots of men who try to play grab ass with women. But by and large we're a professional military and very few of the grab assers stick around long.

In my personal opinion homosexuality is a sin, but it is not a crime and shouldnt' preclude anyone from serving if that's their desire.

I've served two tours in Iraq, one tour on the Mexican border and several deployments in the state of Arkansas and I call tell you, I never not once thought "gee I wonder if the dude next to me is gay."

Let em serve openly, who cares?

Even though you're wrong about being born gay (yes, there is scientific proof gays are different physically and hormonally), and even though you're a Christian fundamentalist, you at least are able to see beyond your views to what is good for all.

Yes, gays should be allowed to serve openly. Yes, they should also have access to married benefits if they are living in a state that allows gays to marry.

I've never been concerned with how people serving with me have gotten their orgasms, or who from.

I'm just concerned as to whether or not they can cover my six when shit goes down.

By the way.........for all you old timers who are used to seeing me ripping into fundamentalist Christians, take a clue........even though I don't agree with ConHog's views on gays, we both served a full career and see service the same way.

Disagree. There is no scientific proof that supports your statement. Only homosexual behavior supports your statement.

 

[Nik]

Jesus, I am a Chritsian, I don't think people are just born homosexual, I am also a 20 year military veteran. Just let them serve. Seriously, will there be a few who try to grab ass and such? Sure there will be, guess what, there are some women who try to play grab ass with men, and lots of men who try to play grab ass with women. But by and large we're a professional military and very few of the grab assers stick around long.

In my personal opinion homosexuality is a sin, but it is not a crime and shouldnt' preclude anyone from serving if that's their desire.

I've served two tours in Iraq, one tour on the Mexican border and several deployments in the state of Arkansas and I call tell you, I never not once thought "gee I wonder if the dude next to me is gay."

Let em serve openly, who cares?

Even though you're wrong about being born gay (yes, there is scientific proof gays are different physically and hormonally), and even though you're a Christian fundamentalist, you at least are able to see beyond your views to what is good for all.

Yes, gays should be allowed to serve openly. Yes, they should also have access to married benefits if they are living in a state that allows gays to marry.

I've never been concerned with how people serving with me have gotten their orgasms, or who from.

I'm just concerned as to whether or not they can cover my six when shit goes down.

By the way.........for all you old timers who are used to seeing me ripping into fundamentalist Christians, take a clue........even though I don't agree with ConHog's views on gays, we both served a full career and see service the same way.

Disagree. There is no scientific proof that supports your statement. Only homosexual behavior supports your statement.

Oh, so you could become attracted to men if you decided to do so?

 

[Modbert]

I think what matters about DADT and one of the main reasons why I think it is a horrible policy is if you're outed beyond your own control. You would still be kicked out. Of course, there are several other reasons too.

 

[ConHog]

And I think a bunch of straight people who have never had to actually deal with the consequences of DADT shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

NOw wait a minute. Every military member since this law was passed have had to deal with the consequences of it.

Really? How exactly?

See, proves you don't know what you're talking about.

Right now EVERY member of the military has to consider how their job could be impacted if a gay was discovered in their assignment. Just as an example.

Look, I'm pro allowing them to openly serve, but you can't pretend they are going to exist in a vacuum and not effect other people, or that they aren't now.

 

[Gunny]

Jesus, I am a Chritsian, I don't think people are just born homosexual, I am also a 20 year military veteran. Just let them serve. Seriously, will there be a few who try to grab ass and such? Sure there will be, guess what, there are some women who try to play grab ass with men, and lots of men who try to play grab ass with women. But by and large we're a professional military and very few of the grab assers stick around long.

In my personal opinion homosexuality is a sin, but it is not a crime and shouldnt' preclude anyone from serving if that's their desire.

I've served two tours in Iraq, one tour on the Mexican border and several deployments in the state of Arkansas and I call tell you, I never not once thought "gee I wonder if the dude next to me is gay."

Let em serve openly, who cares?

Are you in the NG? Seeing as how you stated you served deployments in Arkansas, I have to assume that you are not in the regular military.

Homosexuality doesn't preclude anyone from serving. Really getting tired of hearing this! Quit trying to make it appear as though DADT requires all homosexuals to stay out of the military! It doesn't!

Yes, I have been full time National Guard since the day I graduated HS. Not weekend duty, it's my regular job.


OH, as for no one says they can't serve. COme on man, they can serve as long as no one finds out they're gay? What if it were say ok beer drinkers can serve as long as no one ever finds out they drink beer? Fundamentally what is the difference? No, I don't want a dude in pink cammo and a boa next me to me a fight, but if I'm in a fight and the guy next to me shooting at the enemy just happened to be gay. I don't care................... His orientation is between him and God.

That would be incorrect. You cannot be kicked out for being gay. You can be court martialed for engaging in homosexual behavior.

Your view is simplistic. How are you going to feel about sharing a fighting hole or 2-man tent with that gay guy? Or berthing on a ship? How about submarine duty?

 

[Nik]

NOw wait a minute. Every military member since this law was passed have had to deal with the consequences of it.

Really? How exactly?

See, proves you don't know what you're talking about.

Right now EVERY member of the military has to consider how their job could be impacted if a gay was discovered in their assignment. Just as an example.

Look, I'm pro allowing them to openly serve, but you can't pretend they are going to exist in a vacuum and not effect other people, or that they aren't now.

You have to consider how their job might be impacted? That v. getting dishonorably discharged?

Sorry but the consequences are vastly, vastly different. And the kind of fear that goes into trying to hide something like that takes a daily psychological toll.

 

[Gunny]

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Gunny, how many homosexuals do you really think are going to be out there flaunting their gayness if t hey are in the military? Sure there are the flaming queers that even gay people hate, but we both know that generally the military attracts people cut from a higher cloth, people who are gay sure, but that doesn't mean they want to grab your ass, or make out in front of you or anything of the sort. They simply want the right to have their partner or whatever come and greet them when they come home from deployment, and I think you would agree it's deplorable that official policy would prevent that, or the right to have a dinner with their friend and not worry about losing their career over it.


From a religious view I can see where some would object to this, but from a military readiness view, this is a silly argument.

My POV is practical, not religious. You just made my point in a back-handed way. The military is full of alpha males. When Marines admitted to being gay, we had to get chasers (escorts) to follow them around so the other Marines didn't kick their butts.

 

[Nik]

Are you in the NG? Seeing as how you stated you served deployments in Arkansas, I have to assume that you are not in the regular military.

Homosexuality doesn't preclude anyone from serving. Really getting tired of hearing this! Quit trying to make it appear as though DADT requires all homosexuals to stay out of the military! It doesn't!

Yes, I have been full time National Guard since the day I graduated HS. Not weekend duty, it's my regular job.


OH, as for no one says they can't serve. COme on man, they can serve as long as no one finds out they're gay? What if it were say ok beer drinkers can serve as long as no one ever finds out they drink beer? Fundamentally what is the difference? No, I don't want a dude in pink cammo and a boa next me to me a fight, but if I'm in a fight and the guy next to me shooting at the enemy just happened to be gay. I don't care................... His orientation is between him and God.

That would be incorrect. You cannot be kicked out for being gay. You can be court martialed for engaging in homosexual behavior.

Your view is simplistic. How are you going to feel about sharing a fighting hole or 2-man tent with that gay guy? Or berthing on a ship? How about submarine duty?

Oh well you military boys are so precious. You might feel a bit uncomfortable. That totally justifies discrimination.

Same fucking arguments as when blacks joined. Same fucking arguments.

 

[ConHog]

Really? How exactly?

See, proves you don't know what you're talking about.

Right now EVERY member of the military has to consider how their job could be impacted if a gay was discovered in their assignment. Just as an example.

Look, I'm pro allowing them to openly serve, but you can't pretend they are going to exist in a vacuum and not effect other people, or that they aren't now.

You have to consider how their job might be impacted? That v. getting dishonorably discharged?

Sorry but the consequences are vastly, vastly different. And the kind of fear that goes into trying to hide something like that takes a daily psychological toll.

Umm what? I'm in Iraq and someone on my team decides they don't want to be there anymore so they tell our commanding officer they're gay, they get sent home, suddenly I have one less body helping me fight insurgents. Maybe that gets me killed. You don't think that worries people?

And it happens, ALOT.

 

[ConHog]

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Gunny, how many homosexuals do you really think are going to be out there flaunting their gayness if t hey are in the military? Sure there are the flaming queers that even gay people hate, but we both know that generally the military attracts people cut from a higher cloth, people who are gay sure, but that doesn't mean they want to grab your ass, or make out in front of you or anything of the sort. They simply want the right to have their partner or whatever come and greet them when they come home from deployment, and I think you would agree it's deplorable that official policy would prevent that, or the right to have a dinner with their friend and not worry about losing their career over it.


From a religious view I can see where some would object to this, but from a military readiness view, this is a silly argument.

My POV is practical, not religious. You just made my point in a back-handed way. The military is full of alpha males. When Marines admitted to being gay, we had to get chasers (escorts) to follow them around so the other Marines didn't kick their butts.

Marines shouldn't be going around beating anyone up. They should honor their uniform, if they don't throw em in the brig. Simple solution to that problem

 

[Gunny]

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I have both served and have a concept of DADT. It needs to be right where it is, and I completely disagree with your opinion.

Flaunting one's sexuality is improper and unprofessional behavior. Those homosexuals that wish to serve ALREADY serve. Those that want to be identified by their sexual preferences rather than Marine, Soldier, Sailor and/or Airman don't need to be around me.

We got rid of the title "Woman Marine" in the 80s. They are Marines.

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

Really?

So you never talked about your wife while in the military?

Because thats explicitly saying you are straight.

Being open about being gay doesn't mean you are going around telling everyone you are gay, it means being able to fucking mention it without getting kicked out of the military. If you all think its no big deal, then try going the rest of your life without ever mentioning your spouse.

One, you can say you're gay all you want and no one can kick you out for that reason. Ignorance of the law is used to kick them out, but fact is, a person can be gay and legally serve.

Two, the only people that want to serve openly are the ones that want to flaunt it. Those that want to serve, already do.

Three, it's legal in all 50 states for me to have a wife and discuss her. I did mot however bring my personal business to work with me, nor would I disrespect her by discussing our sex life with a bunch of jarheads.

 

[Gunny]

Have you ever served in the military? Unless you have served, you have no valid opinion of DADT!

I think a bunch of civilians who never had to live for months on end in close quarters with hundreds of other servicemen and women shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

And I think a bunch of straight people who have never had to actually deal with the consequences of DADT shouldn't be making decisions like this for those that do.

I dealt with it longer than you have, slick. When you get to 21 years TIS, let me know.

 

[ABikerSailor]

See, proves you don't know what you're talking about.

Right now EVERY member of the military has to consider how their job could be impacted if a gay was discovered in their assignment. Just as an example.

Look, I'm pro allowing them to openly serve, but you can't pretend they are going to exist in a vacuum and not effect other people, or that they aren't now.

You have to consider how their job might be impacted? That v. getting dishonorably discharged?

Sorry but the consequences are vastly, vastly different. And the kind of fear that goes into trying to hide something like that takes a daily psychological toll.

Umm what? I'm in Iraq and someone on my team decides they don't want to be there anymore so they tell our commanding officer they're gay, they get sent home, suddenly I have one less body helping me fight insurgents. Maybe that gets me killed. You don't think that worries people?

And it happens, ALOT.

Yep. Happened back in the mid 80's as well. If a person stated they were gay prior to DADT? Usually they were discharged within 48 hours.

Now? A cushy ride back to the States for a board.

Getting rid of DADT and allowing gays to serve openly would stop that problem.