Elizabeth Warren's 11 Progressive Commandments - Rebutted!

[rightwinger]

Wish Liz Warren would run for President

Like to see Republicans debate those eleven points

Those are tired old left wing nut points that have been destroyed many times on the board alone.

Actually, they haven't been

Why don't you destroy one?

Yeah, they have. Now you are just boring me.

About what I expected

Your inability to refute a single one. Why don't you just get it over with and resort to Indian chants like Frankie?

 

[Steinlight]

Warren lost any and all credibility when she claimed to be Native American

Instead of ad hominem, can you refute anything she said? I think not.

We are already deconstructing the myth that women earn 77% of men. Well, the Department of Labor debunked that one for us.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

But I think we can handle tackling another of her so called "commandments".

In her very first commandment she states,"We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we're willing to fight for it".

Which specific regulations do we need in the financial sector, and why do we need them?

 

[rightwinger]

Warren lost any and all credibility when she claimed to be Native American

Instead of ad hominem, can you refute anything she said? I think not.

We are already deconstructing the myth that women earn 77% of men. Well, the Department of Labor debunked that one for us.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

But I think we can handle tackling another of her so called "commandments".

In her very first commandment she states,"We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we're willing to fight for it".

Which specific regulations do we need in the financial sector, and why do we need them?

Equal pay for equal work

I can see why conservatives are outraged

 

[Steinlight]

Warren lost any and all credibility when she claimed to be Native American

Instead of ad hominem, can you refute anything she said? I think not.

We are already deconstructing the myth that women earn 77% of men. Well, the Department of Labor debunked that one for us.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

But I think we can handle tackling another of her so called "commandments".

In her very first commandment she states,"We believe that Wall Street needs stronger rules and tougher enforcement, and we're willing to fight for it".

Which specific regulations do we need in the financial sector, and why do we need them?

Equal pay for equal work

I can see why conservatives are outraged

As anyone should be outraged, the so called "gender pay gap" is a myth that has been thoroughly debunked, by the Department of Labor no less.

 

[Bfgrn]

Wish Liz Warren would run for President

Like to see Republicans debate those eleven points

If they had the courage to, they would win those debates. However, getting over the emotional basis of absurd statements like "women make 77% of the wage a man makes", is difficult because most people think emotionally not rationally.

Yea, how dare her! Women make 78% of the wage a man makes.

78 cents on the dollar The facts about the gender wage gap - Apr. 13 2015

That statistic doesn't account for hours worked, profession, education, or experience. It is dishonest to say the least

Why don't you try a new approach...READ THE ARTICLE...because it DOES compare equal jobs

No where in that article does it say women receive 78% of the wage of a man for the same job.

2. But, even after you drill down into specific occupations, the wage gap persists.

Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.

The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents.


3. OK. But what does that actually look like, salary-wise?

It adds up. It can make the difference between five- and six-figure annual incomes.

This is especially true among tech jobs, according to the Ladders, a job site that pulled salary data from 1.3 million people in the U.S. in 2014.In a technical director role, women earn less than six figures ($97,817) while a man with the same title will earn nearly $40,000 more a year. In an accountant role, there's a $32,578 salary gap.

5. For some women, it's even bleaker.

Black women make 64 cents and Latinas make 56 cents for every dollar earned by a white man.

There's also what Graves refers to as the "motherhood penalty": mothers tend to make even less than women who don't have children.

 

[PredFan]

Wish Liz Warren would run for President

Like to see Republicans debate those eleven points

Those are tired old left wing nut points that have been destroyed many times on the board alone.

Actually, they haven't been

Why don't you destroy one?

Yeah, they have. Now you are just boring me.

About what I expected

Your inability to refute a single one. Why don't you just get it over with and resort to Indian chants like Frankie?

Hello! McFly?

The threads are all there moron. They have all been refuted already. How fucking dense are you people?

 

[Steinlight]

If they had the courage to, they would win those debates. However, getting over the emotional basis of absurd statements like "women make 77% of the wage a man makes", is difficult because most people think emotionally not rationally.

Yea, how dare her! Women make 78% of the wage a man makes.

78 cents on the dollar The facts about the gender wage gap - Apr. 13 2015

That statistic doesn't account for hours worked, profession, education, or experience. It is dishonest to say the least

Why don't you try a new approach...READ THE ARTICLE...because it DOES compare equal jobs

No where in that article does it say women receive 78% of the wage of a man for the same job.

2. But, even after you drill down into specific occupations, the wage gap persists.

Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.

The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents.


3. OK. But what does that actually look like, salary-wise?

It adds up. It can make the difference between five- and six-figure annual incomes.

This is especially true among tech jobs, according to the Ladders, a job site that pulled salary data from 1.3 million people in the U.S. in 2014.In a technical director role, women earn less than six figures ($97,817) while a man with the same title will earn nearly $40,000 more a year. In an accountant role, there's a $32,578 salary gap.

5. For some women, it's even bleaker.

Black women make 64 cents and Latinas make 56 cents for every dollar earned by a white man.

There's also what Graves refers to as the "motherhood penalty": mothers tend to make even less than women who don't have children.

Thanks for proving my point, no where in the article does it say women make 78% of the wage men make for the same job.

This seems like a rather superficial analysis. They aren't mentioning anything about experience, education, fringe benefits, time off work, all these factors they mentioned earlier in the article, they conveniently ignore those in this statistic.

Its a shame they view motherhood as a penalty, as opposed to a life choice where women time from work to take care of children. But yes, time off work, less hours worked, and gaps in work experience, do result in a pay gap. That isn't evidence of discrimination. That is evidence that women defer work and a higher salary to take care of children.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yea, how dare her! Women make 78% of the wage a man makes.

78 cents on the dollar The facts about the gender wage gap - Apr. 13 2015

That statistic doesn't account for hours worked, profession, education, or experience. It is dishonest to say the least

Why don't you try a new approach...READ THE ARTICLE...because it DOES compare equal jobs

No where in that article does it say women receive 78% of the wage of a man for the same job.

2. But, even after you drill down into specific occupations, the wage gap persists.

Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.

The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents.


3. OK. But what does that actually look like, salary-wise?

It adds up. It can make the difference between five- and six-figure annual incomes.

This is especially true among tech jobs, according to the Ladders, a job site that pulled salary data from 1.3 million people in the U.S. in 2014.In a technical director role, women earn less than six figures ($97,817) while a man with the same title will earn nearly $40,000 more a year. In an accountant role, there's a $32,578 salary gap.

5. For some women, it's even bleaker.

Black women make 64 cents and Latinas make 56 cents for every dollar earned by a white man.

There's also what Graves refers to as the "motherhood penalty": mothers tend to make even less than women who don't have children.

Thanks for proving my point, no where in the article does it say women make 78% of the wage men make for the same job.

This seems like a rather superficial analysis. They aren't mentioning anything about experience, education, fringe benefits, time off work, all these factors they mentioned earlier in the article, they conveniently ignore those in this statistic.

Its a shame they view motherhood as a penalty, as opposed to a life choice where women time from work to take care of children. But yes, time off work, less hours worked, and gaps in work experience, do result in a pay gap. That isn't evidence of discrimination. That is evidence that women defer work and a higher salary to take care of children.

So, you are going to play the "threshold" game. Some salaries are better than 78% for the exact same job, but some are worse.

And NONE of them are equal.

What is it with the right wing mind...are you folks that dishonest or that obtuse?

 

[Steinlight]

That statistic doesn't account for hours worked, profession, education, or experience. It is dishonest to say the least

Why don't you try a new approach...READ THE ARTICLE...because it DOES compare equal jobs

No where in that article does it say women receive 78% of the wage of a man for the same job.

2. But, even after you drill down into specific occupations, the wage gap persists.

Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.

The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents.


3. OK. But what does that actually look like, salary-wise?

It adds up. It can make the difference between five- and six-figure annual incomes.

This is especially true among tech jobs, according to the Ladders, a job site that pulled salary data from 1.3 million people in the U.S. in 2014.In a technical director role, women earn less than six figures ($97,817) while a man with the same title will earn nearly $40,000 more a year. In an accountant role, there's a $32,578 salary gap.

5. For some women, it's even bleaker.

Black women make 64 cents and Latinas make 56 cents for every dollar earned by a white man.

There's also what Graves refers to as the "motherhood penalty": mothers tend to make even less than women who don't have children.

Thanks for proving my point, no where in the article does it say women make 78% of the wage men make for the same job.

This seems like a rather superficial analysis. They aren't mentioning anything about experience, education, fringe benefits, time off work, all these factors they mentioned earlier in the article, they conveniently ignore those in this statistic.

Its a shame they view motherhood as a penalty, as opposed to a life choice where women time from work to take care of children. But yes, time off work, less hours worked, and gaps in work experience, do result in a pay gap. That isn't evidence of discrimination. That is evidence that women defer work and a higher salary to take care of children.

So, you are going to play the "threshold" game. Some salaries are better than 78% for the exact same job, but some are worse.

And NONE of them are equal.

What is it with the right wing mind...are you folks that dishonest or that obtuse?

That simply isn't true, when controlled for profession, hours worked, experience, education and other factors, this pay gap does not exist. This isn't me or the "right wing" saying it, this is the Department of Labor.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

Sorry, I don't buy your hysteric claims of so called "discrimination". Not only are they not backed up by the data. And if that were the case, companies would maximize profit by just hiring women, since they pay them 77% for the exact same work.

 

[Bfgrn]

Why don't you try a new approach...READ THE ARTICLE...because it DOES compare equal jobs

No where in that article does it say women receive 78% of the wage of a man for the same job.

2. But, even after you drill down into specific occupations, the wage gap persists.

Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.

The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents.


3. OK. But what does that actually look like, salary-wise?

It adds up. It can make the difference between five- and six-figure annual incomes.

This is especially true among tech jobs, according to the Ladders, a job site that pulled salary data from 1.3 million people in the U.S. in 2014.In a technical director role, women earn less than six figures ($97,817) while a man with the same title will earn nearly $40,000 more a year. In an accountant role, there's a $32,578 salary gap.

5. For some women, it's even bleaker.

Black women make 64 cents and Latinas make 56 cents for every dollar earned by a white man.

There's also what Graves refers to as the "motherhood penalty": mothers tend to make even less than women who don't have children.

Thanks for proving my point, no where in the article does it say women make 78% of the wage men make for the same job.

This seems like a rather superficial analysis. They aren't mentioning anything about experience, education, fringe benefits, time off work, all these factors they mentioned earlier in the article, they conveniently ignore those in this statistic.

Its a shame they view motherhood as a penalty, as opposed to a life choice where women time from work to take care of children. But yes, time off work, less hours worked, and gaps in work experience, do result in a pay gap. That isn't evidence of discrimination. That is evidence that women defer work and a higher salary to take care of children.

So, you are going to play the "threshold" game. Some salaries are better than 78% for the exact same job, but some are worse.

And NONE of them are equal.

What is it with the right wing mind...are you folks that dishonest or that obtuse?

That simply isn't true, when controlled for profession, hours worked, experience, education and other factors, this pay gap does not exist. This isn't me or the "right wing" saying it, this is the Department of Labor.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

Sorry, I don't buy your hysteric claims of so called "discrimination". Not only are they not backed up by the data. And if that were the case, companies would maximize profit by just hiring women, since they pay them 77% for the exact same work.

The "study" you quote was commissioned by the Bush administration using Consad Research Corp. It does not say there is no wage gap...it downplays the "Adjusted Gender Wage Gap ... Is Between 4.8 And 7.1 Percent."

Even Fox Business dismissed it...

The Pay Gap Is Alive and Well and Hurting Women Fox Business

As did the US Census

 

[AntiParty]

Warren lost any and all credibility when she claimed to be Native American

Funny thing was she said she had Native American ancestors. She never claimed to be one, she claimed to be a minority. She is a woman and that is legally determined to be a minority.

I know, Fox News told you she said she was a minority because of Indians. Fox News is so smart!

Progressive are just as much different from Democrats as Libertarians are from Republicans.

 

[Steinlight]

First of all, the Department of Labor Report wasn't one study, it was a compilation of data of over 50 peer reviewed papers. No one ever said there is no gap unequivocally, but the "gap" as it is spoken of is patently false. There may be a gap of around 4 to 7 percent, but that is a far cry from the 23% hysteria, and no evidence that this significantly smaller disparity is the result of discrimination. The report concluded that it may all very well be explained away by differing choices between men and women in the labor market.

“In principle, more of the raw wage gap could be explained by including some additional variables within a single comprehensive analysis that considers all of the factors simultaneously; however, such an analysis is not feasible to conduct with available data bases. Factors, such as work experience and job tenure, require data that describe the behavior of individual workers over extended time periods. The longitudinal data bases that contain such information include too few workers, however, to support adequate analysis of factors like occupation and industry. Cross-sectional data bases that include enough workers to enable analysis of factors like occupation and industry do not collect data on individual workers over long enough periods to support adequate analysis of factors like work experience and job tenure.
Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.”

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf


The problem is, your graph doesn't mean anything, doesn't account for differences hours worked or experience for example. In both cases, on average, full time male workers work more hours, and as you even admitted, don't have the same gaps in work experience due to taking off time for being with children, the so called "motherhood penalty".

The Labor Department defines full-time as 35 hours a week or more, and the "or more" is far more likely to refer to male workers than to female ones. According to the department, almost 55% of workers logging more than 35 hours a week are men. In 2007, 25% of men working full-time jobs had workweeks of 41 or more hours, compared with 14% of female full-time workers. In other words, the famous gender-wage gap is to a considerable degree a gender-hours gap.

Kay Hymowitz Why Women Make Less Than Men - WSJ

The difference in hours worked alone explains away about 25% of t the so called 77% myth.

The Department of Labor’s Time Use Survey, for example, finds that the average full-time working man spends 8.14 hours a day on the job, compared to 7.75 hours for the full-time working woman. Employees who work more likely earn more. Men working five percent longer than women alone explains about one-quarter of the wage gap.

It s Time That We End the Equal Pay Myth - Forbes





You just keep bringing out the same rehashed and debunked statistic that doesn't account for any of the factors mentioned.

If your hypothesis were true, and women that work equal hours for the same work, and have the same education level and experience in the field, were paid 78% of men, profit maximizing companies would only hire women. But as I said before, the stats don't bare this out.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

dear knee-jerk wingnut,

many liberals do not back Warren's progressive agenda. What we do back is her ability to put people like you in your place

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Funny thing was she said she had Native American...

you do know the overwhelming majority of voters don't know or care?

 

[Steinlight]

And don't take my word for about the myth of the 77% pay gap myth, take it from Obama's Council of Economic Advisers.

Except, as soon as Stevenson was actually questioned about the statistic by McClatchy reporter Lindsay Wise, the White House adviser crumbled, admitting her earlier comments were inaccurate.

“If I said 77 cents was equal pay for equal work, then I completely misspoke,” Stevenson said. “So let me just apologize and say that I certainly wouldn’t have meant to say that.”

Oh, I’m sorry, I guess when Stevenson said “we see it when men and women are working side by side doing identical work” — that was an accident?

“Seventy-seven cents captures the annual earnings of full-time, full-year women divided by the annual earnings of full-time, full-year men,” Stevenson clarified. “There are a lot of things that go into that 77-cents figure, there are a lot of things that contribute and no one’s trying to say that it’s all about discrimination, but I don’t think there’s a better figure.”

White House The 77 cents wage gap figure isn t accurate but they ll use it anyway WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[Steinlight]

dear knee-jerk wingnut,

many liberals do not back Warren's progressive agenda. What we do back is her ability to put people like you in your place

What is a wing nut?

 

[AntiParty]

Funny thing was she said she had Native American...

you do know the overwhelming majority of voters don't know or care?

Because they are so busy working.

NAFTA changed that.

 

[AntiParty]

dear knee-jerk wingnut,

many liberals do not back Warren's progressive agenda. What we do back is her ability to put people like you in your place

What is a wing nut?

HOLY CRAP that was funny on so many levels

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

dear knee-jerk wingnut,

many liberals do not back Warren's progressive agenda. What we do back is her ability to put people like you in your place

What is a wing nut?

mirror

 

[Steinlight]

No where in that article does it say women receive 78% of the wage of a man for the same job.

2. But, even after you drill down into specific occupations, the wage gap persists.

Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.

The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents.


3. OK. But what does that actually look like, salary-wise?

It adds up. It can make the difference between five- and six-figure annual incomes.

This is especially true among tech jobs, according to the Ladders, a job site that pulled salary data from 1.3 million people in the U.S. in 2014.In a technical director role, women earn less than six figures ($97,817) while a man with the same title will earn nearly $40,000 more a year. In an accountant role, there's a $32,578 salary gap.

5. For some women, it's even bleaker.

Black women make 64 cents and Latinas make 56 cents for every dollar earned by a white man.

There's also what Graves refers to as the "motherhood penalty": mothers tend to make even less than women who don't have children.

Thanks for proving my point, no where in the article does it say women make 78% of the wage men make for the same job.

This seems like a rather superficial analysis. They aren't mentioning anything about experience, education, fringe benefits, time off work, all these factors they mentioned earlier in the article, they conveniently ignore those in this statistic.

Its a shame they view motherhood as a penalty, as opposed to a life choice where women time from work to take care of children. But yes, time off work, less hours worked, and gaps in work experience, do result in a pay gap. That isn't evidence of discrimination. That is evidence that women defer work and a higher salary to take care of children.

So, you are going to play the "threshold" game. Some salaries are better than 78% for the exact same job, but some are worse.

And NONE of them are equal.

What is it with the right wing mind...are you folks that dishonest or that obtuse?

That simply isn't true, when controlled for profession, hours worked, experience, education and other factors, this pay gap does not exist. This isn't me or the "right wing" saying it, this is the Department of Labor.
http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

Sorry, I don't buy your hysteric claims of so called "discrimination". Not only are they not backed up by the data. And if that were the case, companies would maximize profit by just hiring women, since they pay them 77% for the exact same work.

As did the US Census

Also, this statistic doesn't account for differences in salaries between doctors and surgeons for example, when there is a large degree of difference within the profession. Women tend to work in less intensive fields, such as family practice, to a large, degree, an thus receive a lower pay on average. And not accounting for this difference in all the other broad fields listed certainly contributes to the "pay gap".