Elisha and the Bears- God's Justice

It tells me I was right not to cast pearls before swine.

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.
Actually qatan is usually translated as small, little or youngest and when combined with na' ar is most accurately translated as little children.

qatan kaw-tawn' or
qaton kaw-tone'

adj
KJV - small 33, little 19, youngest 15, younger 14, least 10, less 3, lesser 2, little one 2, smallest 1, small things 1, young 1; 101

1) young, small, insignificant, unimportant
1a) small
1b) insignificant
1c) young
1d) unimportant

na`ar nah'-ar

n m

KJV - young man 76, servant 54, child 44, lad 33, young 15, children 7, youth 6, babe 1, boys 1, young 1; 238

1) a boy, lad, servant, youth, retainer
1a) boy, lad, youth
1b) servant, retainer
 
Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

It must be admitted that if learning Hebrew is necessary to understanding God, there is definitely some deficiency somewhere.

Funny, I don't recall saying that it is necessary to learn Hebrew to understand God, can you show me where you got that from?

Where did I say you said that?
 
The deficiency is within the human, not God.
"For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the Name of Yahweh, to serve him with one consent," Zephaniah 3:9.

We were a one language world. ( Gen. 11:1 ) until we started to "babble".

Elisha cursed the group. God sent the bears, not Elisha.
"Children" in the Biblical sense can be up to 30 years old. Remember when Abraham took His "little son" up the mountain to be sacrificed? Isaac was in his 20's at the time.

Those 42 "children" were from a cult city near Jericho, and were part of a larger mob railing against God and His prophet. And God was very protective of His prophets.
 
My Bible says youths, others say young lads implying that they were young teens not little children.

Elisha was traveling from Jericho to Bethel when a group of young men verbally accosted him. 42 is a large number of people, and they were probably an organized group who had gone out to challenge Elisha. Their mockery implied a malicious intent; especially when the culture of the time insisted on showing respect to their elders. Furthermore, the statement “go up you baldhead!” has cultural significance. First of all, “go up” is probably a reference to Elisha’s predecessor, Elijah, ascending to heaven (2 Kings 2:11). In other words, they are stating they want Elisha gone; and since Elijah had gone on to the “next world,” the implication is they wanted Elisha dead. Also, the epithet ‘baldhead’ was one of “contempt in the East, applied to a person even with a bushy head of hair.” Lepers had to shave their heads, so such a statement could easily have been a deliberate and malicious insult, something dangerous in a mob that can quickly get out of hand.

Given the challenge of the youths, their intimidating number which could constitute a mob, their veiled threat, the contemptuous attitude, and the fact that Elisha was the prophet of God, the Lord allowed the youths to be destroyed.
 
Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.
Actually qatan is usually translated as small, little or youngest and when combined with na' ar is most accurately translated as little children.

qatan kaw-tawn' or
qaton kaw-tone'

adj
KJV - small 33, little 19, youngest 15, younger 14, least 10, less 3, lesser 2, little one 2, smallest 1, small things 1, young 1; 101

1) young, small, insignificant, unimportant
1a) small
1b) insignificant
1c) young
1d) unimportant

na`ar nah'-ar

n m

KJV - young man 76, servant 54, child 44, lad 33, young 15, children 7, youth 6, babe 1, boys 1, young 1; 238

1) a boy, lad, servant, youth, retainer
1a) boy, lad, youth
1b) servant, retainer

Do you have some type of expertise in Ancient Hebrew? Are you aware that qatan comes from the root word קוּט which means to loathe or detest? Or that Hebrew actually has the word טַף that actually means little children, and that the only place in the entire Bible that נַעַר קָטָן appear together is in that verse? That would mean that, in order to prove that the best translation of of that phrase is little children you would have to provide extra biblical examples from ancient Hebrew that were contemporary to the time 2 Kings was written.

My question is, do you have any? Or did you simply assume I am as stupid as you are?
 
2 Kings 2:23 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

Now consider this. God's prophet is mocked by children for his bald head, and the Prophet curses them. God sends two bears out, and 42 kids are mauled....

elisha+bears+The_Children_of_Bethel_Mourned_by_their_Mothers.jpg


Can any believers explain this to me and still maintain that God is a worthy being to worship?

God needs not explain Himself to you or to anyone else, and He's worthy of worship because He's the Creator.
 
Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.
Actually qatan is usually translated as small, little or youngest and when combined with na' ar is most accurately translated as little children.

qatan kaw-tawn' or
qaton kaw-tone'

adj
KJV - small 33, little 19, youngest 15, younger 14, least 10, less 3, lesser 2, little one 2, smallest 1, small things 1, young 1; 101

1) young, small, insignificant, unimportant
1a) small
1b) insignificant
1c) young
1d) unimportant

na`ar nah'-ar

n m

KJV - young man 76, servant 54, child 44, lad 33, young 15, children 7, youth 6, babe 1, boys 1, young 1; 238

1) a boy, lad, servant, youth, retainer
1a) boy, lad, youth
1b) servant, retainer

Do you have some type of expertise in Ancient Hebrew? Are you aware that qatan comes from the root word קוּט which means to loathe or detest? Or that Hebrew actually has the word טַף that actually means little children, and that the only place in the entire Bible that נַעַר קָטָן appear together is in that verse? That would mean that, in order to prove that the best translation of of that phrase is little children you would have to provide extra biblical examples from ancient Hebrew that were contemporary to the time 2 Kings was written.

My question is, do you have any? Or did you simply assume I am as stupid as you are?
As you well know, the KJV is the only translation inspired by God, so if God wanted any other translation other than "little children" He would have inspired them to translate it differently.

https://webcache.googleusercontent....rsion"+inspired+by+god&oe=utf-8&hl=en&ct=clnk

"the KJV is the preserved Word of God and the other versions are counterfeits."
 
The deficiency is within the human, not God.
"For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the Name of Yahweh, to serve him with one consent," Zephaniah 3:9.

We were a one language world. ( Gen. 11:1 ) until we started to "babble".

Elisha cursed the group. God sent the bears, not Elisha.
"Children" in the Biblical sense can be up to 30 years old. Remember when Abraham took His "little son" up the mountain to be sacrificed? Isaac was in his 20's at the time.

Those 42 "children" were from a cult city near Jericho, and were part of a larger mob railing against God and His prophet. And God was very protective of His prophets.

Actually, the bible gives no indication of Isaac's age, and considering Abraham and Sarah were in their 80's(!) when Isaac was born, I really have a hard time believing a 20 year old couldn't over power a 100 year old man.
 
Actually qatan is usually translated as small, little or youngest and when combined with na' ar is most accurately translated as little children.

qatan kaw-tawn' or
qaton kaw-tone'

adj
KJV - small 33, little 19, youngest 15, younger 14, least 10, less 3, lesser 2, little one 2, smallest 1, small things 1, young 1; 101

1) young, small, insignificant, unimportant
1a) small
1b) insignificant
1c) young
1d) unimportant

na`ar nah'-ar

n m

KJV - young man 76, servant 54, child 44, lad 33, young 15, children 7, youth 6, babe 1, boys 1, young 1; 238

1) a boy, lad, servant, youth, retainer
1a) boy, lad, youth
1b) servant, retainer

Do you have some type of expertise in Ancient Hebrew? Are you aware that qatan comes from the root word קוּט which means to loathe or detest? Or that Hebrew actually has the word טַף that actually means little children, and that the only place in the entire Bible that נַעַר קָטָן appear together is in that verse? That would mean that, in order to prove that the best translation of of that phrase is little children you would have to provide extra biblical examples from ancient Hebrew that were contemporary to the time 2 Kings was written.

My question is, do you have any? Or did you simply assume I am as stupid as you are?
As you well know, the KJV is the only translation inspired by God, so if God wanted any other translation other than "little children" He would have inspired them to translate it differently.

https://webcache.googleusercontent....rsion"+inspired+by+god&oe=utf-8&hl=en&ct=clnk

"the KJV is the preserved Word of God and the other versions are counterfeits."

I know that? That is news to me, did I forget?

Thanks for proving that you not only have no real knowledge of Hebrew, you also know nothing about me, and cannot construct a logical argument without resorting to fallacies.
 
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I know that? That is news to me, did I forget?

Thanks for proving that you not only have no real knowledge of Hebrew, you also know nothing about me, and cannot construct a logical argument without resorting to fallacies.

I guess I would ask, why would God let such an inaccurate translation to exist to start with?

Why would he make the wording of hte Bible SO unclear that you have some 100 translations in English alone.

Incidently, this is how various bibles translate that word.

2 Kings 2:23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!"

New International Version (©1984) - some youths

New Living Translation (©2007) - a group of boys

English Standard Version (©2001) - some small boys

New American Standard Bible (©1995) - young lads

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) - little children

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) - some boys

King James 2000 Bible (©2003) - youths

American King James Version - little children

American Standard Version - young lads

Douay-Rheims Bible (popular with Catholics) - little boys

Darby Bible Translation - little boys

English Revised Version - little children

Webster's Bible Translation - little children

World English Bible - some youths

Young's Literal Translation - little youths

Not a one of them says "young men."
 
[

I know that? That is news to me, did I forget?

Thanks for proving that you not only have no real knowledge of Hebrew, you also know nothing about me, and cannot construct a logical argument without resorting to fallacies.

I guess I would ask, why would God let such an inaccurate translation to exist to start with?

Why would he make the wording of hte Bible SO unclear that you have some 100 translations in English alone.

Incidently, this is how various bibles translate that word.

2 Kings 2:23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!"

New International Version (©1984) - some youths

New Living Translation (©2007) - a group of boys

English Standard Version (©2001) - some small boys

New American Standard Bible (©1995) - young lads

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) - little children

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) - some boys

King James 2000 Bible (©2003) - youths

American King James Version - little children

American Standard Version - young lads

Douay-Rheims Bible (popular with Catholics) - little boys

Darby Bible Translation - little boys

English Revised Version - little children

Webster's Bible Translation - little children

World English Bible - some youths

Young's Literal Translation - little youths

Not a one of them says "young men."

I guess I would ask, why wouldn't He?
 
[

I guess I would ask, why wouldn't He?

Well, if it was ME writing a book I intended to be a moral guide for humanity, I'd make it very clear.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time telling people they couldn't eat shellfish, but I'd make damned sure they knew one human being owning another was wrong.

This is a low standard "Yahweh", for all his omnipotence, couldn't nit.
 
[

I guess I would ask, why wouldn't He?

Well, if it was ME writing a book I intended to be a moral guide for humanity, I'd make it very clear.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time telling people they couldn't eat shellfish, but I'd make damned sure they knew one human being owning another was wrong.

This is a low standard "Yahweh", for all his omnipotence, couldn't nit.

If it was you writing anything everyone one the planet would laugh.
 
[

God needs not explain Himself to you or to anyone else, and He's worthy of worship because He's the Creator.

Isn't that like an abusive father who beats his children saying it's okay to beat them for nothing because he's their father?

It's amazing how believers in God can make God out to be a complete asshole then turn around and say he loves us.
 
Yeah, that story is odd.

But back in my religious days, I looked at it this way:

Jesus spoke in parables. Who's to say that many of the stories in the Old Testament aren't also parables?

The message is clear: Don't fuck with God's people.
 

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