Elisha and the Bears- God's Justice

[JoeB131]

2 Kings 2:23 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

Now consider this. God's prophet is mocked by children for his bald head, and the Prophet curses them. God sends two bears out, and 42 kids are mauled....

Can any believers explain this to me and still maintain that God is a worthy being to worship?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

2 Kings 2:23 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

Now consider this. God's prophet is mocked by children for his bald head, and the Prophet curses them. God sends two bears out, and 42 kids are mauled....

Can any believers explain this to me and still maintain that God is a worthy being to worship?

Yes.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, that tells me you probably can't.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, that tells me you probably can't.

It tells me I was right not to cast pearls before swine.

 

[there4eyeM]

Don't you think it is a bit categorical to infer that God is unworthy because of this one story? Or even if the entire Bible shows an 'unworthy' concept of deity, that doesn't prove that a real God that existed would be limited to that definition.

Of course, many of these stories are like blockages to belief rather than inducements to it. Not being a 'believer' as such, I can accept that these can only be either allegorical or false. They are interesting as reflections of human thought and psychology throughout the ages.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, that tells me you probably can't.

It tells me I was right not to cast pearls before swine.

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

 

[JoeB131]

Don't you think it is a bit categorical to infer that God is unworthy because of this one story? Or even if the entire Bible shows an 'unworthy' concept of deity, that doesn't prove that a real God that existed would be limited to that definition.

Of course, many of these stories are like blockages to belief rather than inducements to it. Not being a 'believer' as such, I can accept that these can only be either allegorical or false. They are interesting as reflections of human thought and psychology throughout the ages.

Well, no, the bible is FULL of stories like this. God inflicting horrid punishments for petty crimes.

I think the thing is, the old Testament was written by guys who thought "God" was the go-to explanation for everything they didn't understand.

Had a plague that killed half the village? Must have angered God.

Had a couple of bears rampage through and eat some kids? They must have angered God by mocking a prophet.

A swarm of locust swoop down and eat all the crops? Must be God's anger about something. Let's go stone a gay dude to appease him.

Now, yeah, in some ways, we are more advanced and our image of God is more advanced in explaining what we can't explain or assauging the fears (like death) we can't outgrow.

But the Christians still try to bootstrap the angry petty diety of the OT to these modern notions, and they fail miserably.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, that tells me you probably can't.

It tells me I was right not to cast pearls before swine.

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Don't you think it is a bit categorical to infer that God is unworthy because of this one story? Or even if the entire Bible shows an 'unworthy' concept of deity, that doesn't prove that a real God that existed would be limited to that definition.

Of course, many of these stories are like blockages to belief rather than inducements to it. Not being a 'believer' as such, I can accept that these can only be either allegorical or false. They are interesting as reflections of human thought and psychology throughout the ages.

Well, no, the bible is FULL of stories like this. God inflicting horrid punishments for petty crimes.

I think the thing is, the old Testament was written by guys who thought "God" was the go-to explanation for everything they didn't understand.

Had a plague that killed half the village? Must have angered God.

Had a couple of bears rampage through and eat some kids? They must have angered God by mocking a prophet.

A swarm of locust swoop down and eat all the crops? Must be God's anger about something. Let's go stone a gay dude to appease him.

Now, yeah, in some ways, we are more advanced and our image of God is more advanced in explaining what we can't explain or assauging the fears (like death) we can't outgrow.

But the Christians still try to bootstrap the angry petty diety of the OT to these modern notions, and they fail miserably.

What makes you think it was a petty crime? Is it because you are smarter than they were by dint of being born after them?

 

[JoeB131]

It tells me I was right not to cast pearls before swine.

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

So they were teenagers, so that made it okay if a bear killed them for making fun of a guy's bald head.

This is the level of retardation you are going for?

 

[JoeB131]

Don't you think it is a bit categorical to infer that God is unworthy because of this one story? Or even if the entire Bible shows an 'unworthy' concept of deity, that doesn't prove that a real God that existed would be limited to that definition.

Of course, many of these stories are like blockages to belief rather than inducements to it. Not being a 'believer' as such, I can accept that these can only be either allegorical or false. They are interesting as reflections of human thought and psychology throughout the ages.

Well, no, the bible is FULL of stories like this. God inflicting horrid punishments for petty crimes.

I think the thing is, the old Testament was written by guys who thought "God" was the go-to explanation for everything they didn't understand.

Had a plague that killed half the village? Must have angered God.

Had a couple of bears rampage through and eat some kids? They must have angered God by mocking a prophet.

A swarm of locust swoop down and eat all the crops? Must be God's anger about something. Let's go stone a gay dude to appease him.

Now, yeah, in some ways, we are more advanced and our image of God is more advanced in explaining what we can't explain or assauging the fears (like death) we can't outgrow.

But the Christians still try to bootstrap the angry petty diety of the OT to these modern notions, and they fail miserably.

What makes you think it was a petty crime? Is it because you are smarter than they were by dint of being born after them?

Frankly, if I went around killing people every time they made a bald joke about me, I'd run up a higher death count than a serial killer.

It's just not that big a deal.

Except if you are the Sky Pixie of the Old Testament, who will pretty much kill you on a whim because he loves you so much.

And when threatening to kill you lost it's edge in teh Old Testament, we move on to the New Testament where he threatens to torture you for all eternity after you die.

I refuse to worship imaginary sadists.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

So they were teenagers, so that made it okay if a bear killed them for making fun of a guy's bald head.

This is the level of retardation you are going for?

See what I mean? Can you point out where I said they were teenagers, or where I said it was punishment for making fun of a bald guy?

Didn't think so, which is why you will never actually understand. If you ever get serious about asking questions instead of thinking you have all the answers you might stop looking like an idiot.

 

[JoeB131]

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

So they were teenagers, so that made it okay if a bear killed them for making fun of a guy's bald head.

This is the level of retardation you are going for?

See what I mean? Can you point out where I said they were teenagers, or where I said it was punishment for making fun of a bald guy?

Didn't think so, which is why you will never actually understand. If you ever get serious about asking questions instead of thinking you have all the answers you might stop looking like an idiot.

I can only go by what the text actually says, that God sent bears to maul children (not young men) because they made fun of a bald prophet. Frankly, I can't see ANY age where making fun of a bald guy merits death by animal mauling.

 

[there4eyeM]

Certainly, 'God' could not be as literally shown in 'holy' books. The nature of a Creator of All would have to be far above and beyond triteness.

But, after all, we all know that some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.

 

[there4eyeM]

It tells me I was right not to cast pearls before swine.

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

It must be admitted that if learning Hebrew is necessary to understanding God, there is definitely some deficiency somewhere.

 

[JoeB131]

Certainly, 'God' could not be as literally shown in 'holy' books. The nature of a Creator of All would have to be far above and beyond triteness.

But, after all, we all know that some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.

IF there is a creator of all, and creation is not just the random result of natural laws.

And, yes, if the universe is indeed random, then bears eat people no matter who they make fun of.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So they were teenagers, so that made it okay if a bear killed them for making fun of a guy's bald head.

This is the level of retardation you are going for?

See what I mean? Can you point out where I said they were teenagers, or where I said it was punishment for making fun of a bald guy?

Didn't think so, which is why you will never actually understand. If you ever get serious about asking questions instead of thinking you have all the answers you might stop looking like an idiot.

I can only go by what the text actually says, that God sent bears to maul children (not young men) because they made fun of a bald prophet. Frankly, I can't see ANY age where making fun of a bald guy merits death by animal mauling.

The text does not say children. Children is an English word, not a Hebrew one, the text is in Hebrew.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, okay, fine I understand why you don't want to talk about this, but I'm still having a hard time respecting a god who sends bears to murder children.

Maybe you should start by looking up נַעַר קָטָן in a Hebrew dictionary sometime, you might figure out that little children is a questionable translation of the term. na-ar is often translated as young man, and is the same word used by David to describe Solomon after he was married and had a child of his own, while qatan is usually translated as insignificant. We had a similar term that was widely used to describe the same type of person when I was growing up, we called them juvenile delinquents.

Feel free to prove yourself a swine by using whatever you call logic to show me how absurd I am to understand that the Bible can be mistranslated and taking the time to actually study Hebrew in order to learn more about the Bible.

It must be admitted that if learning Hebrew is necessary to understanding God, there is definitely some deficiency somewhere.

Funny, I don't recall saying that it is necessary to learn Hebrew to understand God, can you show me where you got that from?

 

[strollingbones]

jesus also says he came only for the jews

 

[Quantum Windbag]

jesus also says he came only for the jews

He said he was sent for the Jews, not quite the same thing.