Eliminating Don't Ask/Don't Tell? You Can't Be Serious!

[RadiomanATL]

Srsly?

Ya Srsly!

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't think these activists really know what they are asking for. Maybe in some parts of the military a gay person can serve openly and not be bothered. But in the combat arms branches homosexuality is routinely mocked and derided. We are talking about guys from pretty conservative walks of life. Heck, some guys from the South that I served with were shockingly racist.
Combat units should stress unit cohesiveness. I believe that allowing gays in that part of the military would undermine unit integrity and mission readiness. Not to mention fearing for the safety of anyone that is homosexual in a unit like that. I am serious.
Maybe in the non-combat related jobs it could be something that can be accepted, but people have no idea of what they are dealing with when it comes to the combat units.
It is the last boys club. All the good, and the bad of such an organization.

We wouldn't want to make racists feel uncomfortable...especially when we send them armed to the teeth with weapons designed to end human life into countries populated by non-white people with different religious and cultural beliefs ...

And we certainly wouldn't want to upset the cohesiveness of silence when innocent human life is indiscriminately ended...

Oh, and thanks for verifying that racism and collectivism are foundations of conservatism

 

[Toome]

There is no provision in the Uniform Code of Military Justice that bans a homosexual from serving in the US military. None. Instead, Article 125 is used as the basis for discharging homosexuals from active service. Article 125 outlaws sodomy. The UCMJ's definition of sodomy, by the way, has a broad definition ranging from oral and anal sex to sex with an animal, person of the same or opposite gender.

We have scores of combat veterans who have come out of the closet. These are warriors who volunteered for military service, deployed into combat zones, a number of whom were decorated for valor on the battlefield; individuals who exhibited all of the traits and performance standards expected from the military with every potential for success until the day they admitted or were otherwise discovered to be gay. Suddenly, everything they did in the past no longer counted.

The phobia is that if gays are permitted to serve openly that they will start holding hands in the PX, decorate the battalion tactical operations center in shades of pink and purple, and will seduce scores of Airborne RANGERS into having unwanted homosexual sex. The truth is that the regulations governing conduct and behavior will still remain the same; any relationships within the chain of command will still be prohibited; Soldiers, Marines, Sailors and Airmen will still be subject to the exact same military appearance standard, code of conduct and other military protocols. They will have to pass the exact same physical fitness standards, will have to meet the exact same weapons qualification standards and will have to meet the exact same job proficiency standards as their heterosexual counterparts.

The irony is that we are ten years into the new millennium and we're still clinging to an obsolete 19th century standard in defining what it takes to be a modern warrior. The other irony is that so-called conservatives think it's permissible to allow the government to determine which personal behaviors (between two consenting adults) are acceptable and which ones are not. If it does not affect the mission (as already established in heterosexual relationships in the little over 30 years that women have been allowed to serve in regular military service), then why should it be any different just because the individuals in question are homosexual? Again, my reminder to those who object is that homosexuals have already proven themselves under fire on the battlefield.

That's good enough for me.

To the brave and the bold: RANGERS LEAD THE WAY! HOOAH!

 

[Father Time]

"that it will result in gay male soldiers pursuing romantique relationships with straight male soldiers and this is a powder keg scenario."

Not really. The straight guy can tell the gay guy he's not into other men, if the gay guy persists then it could be harassment.

 

[QUENTIN]

At least until the 1970's, but certainly in 1948 when the military was desegregated, the vast majority of white military personnel were racist and uncomfortable serving with black soldiers. But the military took the stance "Fuck you if you're racist, get over it", was and is extremely hard on perceived racist actions by service people, and now we have a fully integrated military where rednecks from Alabama frequently salute, respect, and take orders from black officers. The solution is not to continue to cater to ignorance and childishness, it is to follow the constitution, grant every individual full, equal rights, and force the ignorant and childish to get over it.

The nice thing about the military is that you can give people direct orders and force them to do something or face serious consequences. The average homophobic recruit would rather get used to bunking next to a gay guy than having to deal with constant shit for treating him differently. Institute such a fair, reasonable policy now and in 10 years gays openly serving in the military will be as much of a non-issue as racial desegregation in the military.

Jim, I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, but your solution is to simply accept a status quo problem and refuse to deal with it. Yes, most recruits when they get in are very immature and ignorant. But then comes lots and lots of training and being told what to do and how to behave --or else. An extremely high degree of professionalism is required in the military and it is unprofessional to treat fellow soldiers differently based on their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. It doesn't matter if in their private time many soldiers are still homophobes and let the term "faggot" fly, they can be made to act in a professional manner on the job when serving with gay fellow servicemen and women. It will be tough on gays and homophobes alike for awhile, just as desegregation was tough on blacks and racists for awhile, and then they'll get over it. The same arguments were made over racial desegregation and women serving, as we've seen, those arguments were without merit. You can't cater to the worst of the pack, you have to demand the best from people in uniform and over time, they will grow, learn, and strive to give their best. That's how positive social change happens. It will be gradual, but it is necessary. It's also trusting our troops to be mature and responsible, something we rely on in all of their duties, I think doing otherwise disrespects their professionalism and efficacy.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. And I have to say that 90% of the "I knew they were gay" stories are pure BS.

22 years on active duty and as far as I know I served with 3 gays. 2 were female in the same unit and they were discharged immediately. The third was in training and was caught with a dozen gay videos in his locker. I don't know what happened to him as I started my retirement out processing that day. Knowing the Commander and 1st Sergeant of the company he was probably out of the military before I was.

Now, knowing all that, no one will ever convince this retired Sergeant First Class that openly gay serving in the military is any kind of a good thing.

 

[Father Time]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. And I have to say that 90% of the "I knew they were gay" stories are pure BS.

22 years on active duty and as far as I know I served with 3 gays. 2 were female in the same unit and they were discharged immediately. The third was in training and was caught with a dozen gay videos in his locker. I don't know what happened to him as I started my retirement out processing that day. Knowing the Commander and 1st Sergeant of the company he was probably out of the military before I was.

Now, knowing all that, no one will ever convince this retired Sergeant First Class that openly gay serving in the military is any kind of a good thing.

Meanwhile throwing people out of the military because they are gay is perfectly fine?

 

[QUENTIN]

"Sure, you all have much better arguments than I do and I admire all the reason and logic, but I'll never be convinced because I'm admittedly stubborn and close minded"

 

[rdean]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. And I have to say that 90% of the "I knew they were gay" stories are pure BS.

22 years on active duty and as far as I know I served with 3 gays. 2 were female in the same unit and they were discharged immediately. The third was in training and was caught with a dozen gay videos in his locker. I don't know what happened to him as I started my retirement out processing that day. Knowing the Commander and 1st Sergeant of the company he was probably out of the military before I was.

Now, knowing all that, no one will ever convince this retired Sergeant First Class that openly gay serving in the military is any kind of a good thing.

A dozen gay videos in his locker? Then he wanted out. When I was in the service, lockers were inspected on a regular basis. Only a fool would have a single gay video, much less a dozen. Sorry, if you say so, but you story sounds made up. You know, "pure BS".

 

[KittenKoder]

It's a sad day when Americans think we need homos as warriors to defend our country.

Real men, not sodomites, founded this country.

So then send all the "real men" over to die ... bring all the "gay men" back ... that's a wonderful idea.

 

[geauxtohell]

I remember when it was "implementing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell", you can't be serious!

I like Chris Rock's take on it.

 

[bodecea]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. And I have to say that 90% of the "I knew they were gay" stories are pure BS.

22 years on active duty and as far as I know I served with 3 gays. 2 were female in the same unit and they were discharged immediately. The third was in training and was caught with a dozen gay videos in his locker. I don't know what happened to him as I started my retirement out processing that day. Knowing the Commander and 1st Sergeant of the company he was probably out of the military before I was.

Now, knowing all that, no one will ever convince this retired Sergeant First Class that openly gay serving in the military is any kind of a good thing.

You must have led a seriously sheltered career. Seriously.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. And I have to say that 90% of the "I knew they were gay" stories are pure BS.

22 years on active duty and as far as I know I served with 3 gays. 2 were female in the same unit and they were discharged immediately. The third was in training and was caught with a dozen gay videos in his locker. I don't know what happened to him as I started my retirement out processing that day. Knowing the Commander and 1st Sergeant of the company he was probably out of the military before I was.

Now, knowing all that, no one will ever convince this retired Sergeant First Class that openly gay serving in the military is any kind of a good thing.

A dozen gay videos in his locker? Then he wanted out. When I was in the service, lockers were inspected on a regular basis. Only a fool would have a single gay video, much less a dozen. Sorry, if you say so, but you story sounds made up. You know, "pure BS".

You know, I am retired from the military now. have been for a long time. However an NCO had Integrity, and that my friend is something you do not lose. When the few times I tell a personal story which I have witnessed or participated in, You can take that to the Bank.

I could care less what you may think of my opinions. But do not attack my integrity.

Thank you.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Wow. I just read this entire thread. And I have to say that 90% of the "I knew they were gay" stories are pure BS.

22 years on active duty and as far as I know I served with 3 gays. 2 were female in the same unit and they were discharged immediately. The third was in training and was caught with a dozen gay videos in his locker. I don't know what happened to him as I started my retirement out processing that day. Knowing the Commander and 1st Sergeant of the company he was probably out of the military before I was.

Now, knowing all that, no one will ever convince this retired Sergeant First Class that openly gay serving in the military is any kind of a good thing.

You must have led a seriously sheltered career. Seriously.

Seriously , I did spend a lot of years in COMSEC. But I was also Platoon Sergeant for 3 different Platoons and Operations Sergeant in a Training Company. Not really so sheltered.

 

[uscitizen]

Well maybe the military will at least get some snazzier looking uniforms

 

[Father Time]

Well maybe the military will at least get some snazzier looking uniforms

How can anything look cooler than camo? Well maybe tye dye but that would seem to send mixed messages don't you think.

 

[KittenKoder]

Well maybe the military will at least get some snazzier looking uniforms

How can anything look cooler than camo? Well maybe tye dye but that would seem to send mixed messages don't you think.

Blech ... cammo is useful, but fugly as hell. It would be cool to see snazier dress uniforms though.