Eliminate ATF?

[Dubya]

"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

Is anyone suppose to do that job?

 

[eflatminor]

"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

Is anyone suppose to do that job?

Whatever "job" that agency is attempting to do would be better served by free people in free markets making voluntary choices, which is always the case.

 

[Dubya]

"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

Is anyone suppose to do that job?

Whatever "job" that agency is attempting to do would be better served by free people in free markets making voluntary choices, which is always the case.

So people should make moonshine and the mafia should buy cigarettes and avoid state taxes. Since they are going to have automatic weapons, they can do what they want.

 

[martybegan]

I'm sure it would cost more for the FBI to do it.

Care to back that up with some reasoning? If you have the FBI do it they already have agents in place, and the management infrastructure. If you needed some additonal agents, you could hire the best of the laid off ATF guys.

Also they would only be concerned about federal law violations. let the states enforce thier own laws.

To add that work to the FBI requires more people in the FBI. I'm sure the FBI agent makes more money and their training is more expensive than an ATF agent. Your proposal is they change their hats and get a raise, but since they are now FBI, it's going to cost more to get new people. The ATF needs to expand it's gun trafficing operations, unless people like you want more guns in the hands of criminals.

Can be handled by the FBI for federal crimes, and the States for state crimes. Its just another redundant agency. And if the ATF agents are paid less, why would you want inferior police officers handling firearms cases anyway? Wouldnt you want BETTER agents handling it?

 

[eflatminor]

Is anyone suppose to do that job?

Whatever "job" that agency is attempting to do would be better served by free people in free markets making voluntary choices, which is always the case.

So people should make moonshine

I have no problem with people making their own beverages. I know several guys that make their own beer, a few that make their own wine. No problem at all. We do not need government regulation of alcohol production.

and the mafia should buy cigarettes and avoid state taxes.

If anyone buys something without paying their state's sales tax, that's a problem for the seller, not the buyer. Again, no federal agency is required.

Since they are going to have automatic weapons, they can do what they want.

We have virtually zero problem with automatic weapons used in crimes. If someone does harm another with anything, there are laws, cops, and courts for that. Once again, no federal agency is required.

I say shut them down. Regulation of alcohol, tobacco, firearms...or Twinkies should be a state issue.

 

[Dubya]

Whatever "job" that agency is attempting to do would be better served by free people in free markets making voluntary choices, which is always the case.

So people should make moonshine

I have no problem with people making their own beverages. I know several guys that make their own beer, a few that make their own wine. No problem at all. We do not need government regulation of alcohol production.

and the mafia should buy cigarettes and avoid state taxes.

If anyone buys something without paying their state's sales tax, that's a problem for the seller, not the buyer. Again, no federal agency is required.

Since they are going to have automatic weapons, they can do what they want.

We have virtually zero problem with automatic weapons used in crimes. If someone does harm another with anything, there are laws, cops, and courts for that. Once again, no federal agency is required.

I say shut them down. Regulation of alcohol, tobacco, firearms...or Twinkies should be a state issue.

We aren't talking about people making beer and wine. We are talking about moonshine, which is obviously illegal. In every activity that the ATF involves itself in it's a matter of violating the federal laws. ATF and FBI are part of the Department of Justice. It doesn't matter if you have that far right-wing ideology against the federal government. Those laws exist for good reasons.

 

[Contumacious]

A poster mentioned in a different thread that ATF should be nixed. I've never considered it before, so I'm curious what people's opinions are.

Poll to Follow.

Actually, that is the reason the invaded the Davidians compound. They wanted to prevent the administration from abolishing the UNCONSTITUTIONAL AGENCY.

.

 

[dblack]

So people should make moonshine

I have no problem with people making their own beverages. I know several guys that make their own beer, a few that make their own wine. No problem at all. We do not need government regulation of alcohol production.



If anyone buys something without paying their state's sales tax, that's a problem for the seller, not the buyer. Again, no federal agency is required.

Since they are going to have automatic weapons, they can do what they want.

We have virtually zero problem with automatic weapons used in crimes. If someone does harm another with anything, there are laws, cops, and courts for that. Once again, no federal agency is required.

I say shut them down. Regulation of alcohol, tobacco, firearms...or Twinkies should be a state issue.

We aren't talking about people making beer and wine. We are talking about moonshine, which is obviously illegal. In every activity that the ATF involves itself in it's a matter of violating the federal laws. ATF and FBI are part of the Department of Justice. It doesn't matter if you have that far right-wing ideology against the federal government. Those laws exist for good reasons.

Like?

 

[Dubya]

I have no problem with people making their own beverages. I know several guys that make their own beer, a few that make their own wine. No problem at all. We do not need government regulation of alcohol production.



If anyone buys something without paying their state's sales tax, that's a problem for the seller, not the buyer. Again, no federal agency is required.



We have virtually zero problem with automatic weapons used in crimes. If someone does harm another with anything, there are laws, cops, and courts for that. Once again, no federal agency is required.

I say shut them down. Regulation of alcohol, tobacco, firearms...or Twinkies should be a state issue.

We aren't talking about people making beer and wine. We are talking about moonshine, which is obviously illegal. In every activity that the ATF involves itself in it's a matter of violating the federal laws. ATF and FBI are part of the Department of Justice. It doesn't matter if you have that far right-wing ideology against the federal government. Those laws exist for good reasons.

Like?

Like there are taxes on cigarettes and whiskey! Haven't you ever heard of the Whiskey Rebellion?

There are laws preventing a shotgun being cut down to a pistol, so it can be hidden. There are all kinds of laws pertaining to weapons, go to the NFA site and find out!

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gallantwarrior]

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

For alcohol the only involvement the feds need to have is exicse taxation, and to help enforce the ability of states, counties and other local entities to prevent the import of alcohol if they so choose. The treasury can handle that.

With cigarettes, its again an issue of taxation being avoided. Treasury.

Firearms. Firearm laws are regular laws. a seperate agency is not needed. Violate state law? states handle. Violate federal law? FBI handles.

No need for the agency.

I'm sure it would cost more for the FBI to do it.

Any imagined increase in cost of execution would be more than offset by the decrease in cost represented by eliminating an entire agency.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I'm sure it would cost more for the FBI to do it.

Care to back that up with some reasoning? If you have the FBI do it they already have agents in place, and the management infrastructure. If you needed some additonal agents, you could hire the best of the laid off ATF guys.

Also they would only be concerned about federal law violations. let the states enforce thier own laws.

To add that work to the FBI requires more people in the FBI. I'm sure the FBI agent makes more money and their training is more expensive than an ATF agent. Your proposal is they change their hats and get a raise, but since they are now FBI, it's going to cost more to get new people. The ATF needs to expand it's gun trafficing operations, unless people like you want more guns in the hands of criminals.

No, they don't. Don't you think Fast and Furious did enough damage?

 

[Dubya]

Care to back that up with some reasoning? If you have the FBI do it they already have agents in place, and the management infrastructure. If you needed some additonal agents, you could hire the best of the laid off ATF guys.

Also they would only be concerned about federal law violations. let the states enforce thier own laws.

To add that work to the FBI requires more people in the FBI. I'm sure the FBI agent makes more money and their training is more expensive than an ATF agent. Your proposal is they change their hats and get a raise, but since they are now FBI, it's going to cost more to get new people. The ATF needs to expand it's gun trafficing operations, unless people like you want more guns in the hands of criminals.

No, they don't. Don't you think Fast and Furious did enough damage?

Why don't you post primary sources about happened in Fast and Furious? You seem to know so much about something not even made public.

Face reality for a change! You don't know.

 

[Dubya]

A poster mentioned in a different thread that ATF should be nixed. I've never considered it before, so I'm curious what people's opinions are.

Poll to Follow.

Actually, that is the reason the invaded the Davidians compound. They wanted to prevent the administration from abolishing the UNCONSTITUTIONAL AGENCY.

.

The ATF had 4 agents killed and were out of the picture. The rest is your imagination.

 

[Contumacious]

A poster mentioned in a different thread that ATF should be nixed. I've never considered it before, so I'm curious what people's opinions are.

Poll to Follow.

Actually, that is the reason the invaded the Davidians compound. They wanted to prevent the administration from abolishing the UNCONSTITUTIONAL AGENCY.

.

The ATF had 4 agents killed and were out of the picture. The rest is your imagination.

Why were they there to begin with?

.

 

[OKTexas]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

Your first two points showed how inept they are and then you tried to do a 180. Good Job.

 

[OKTexas]

We aren't talking about people making beer and wine. We are talking about moonshine, which is obviously illegal. In every activity that the ATF involves itself in it's a matter of violating the federal laws. ATF and FBI are part of the Department of Justice. It doesn't matter if you have that far right-wing ideology against the federal government. Those laws exist for good reasons.

Like?

Like there are taxes on cigarettes and whiskey! Haven't you ever heard of the Whiskey Rebellion?

There are laws preventing a shotgun being cut down to a pistol, so it can be hidden. There are all kinds of laws pertaining to weapons, go to the NFA site and find out!

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But there's no law against making a pistol a shotgun. Ever heard of the Judge? What's the difference? If I can make my own beer, why can't I make my own whiskey?

 

[Jarlaxle]

"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

Saw that on a Duke Nukem T-shirt a while back.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The ATF is noting but another revenue arm of the fucking government.

The A and the T standing for alcohol and tobacco; the agency's main concern is that taxes on those two things get collected.

Get rid of it. As far as I'm concerned people should be able to smoke and drink without the fucking government picking their pockets

 

[nitroz]

Atf?

 

[Dubya]

Actually, that is the reason the invaded the Davidians compound. They wanted to prevent the administration from abolishing the UNCONSTITUTIONAL AGENCY.

.

The ATF had 4 agents killed and were out of the picture. The rest is your imagination.

Why were they there to begin with?

.

From what I recall, it involved gun law violations, but you seem to excuse shooting down federal agents. Ruby Ridge involved gun law violations. Whether you agree with a law or not, that doesn't give someone the excuse to shoot at or kill federal agents.