Eliminate ATF?

[AmyNation]

A poster mentioned in a different thread that ATF should be nixed. I've never considered it before, so I'm curious what people's opinions are.

Poll to Follow.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I go the opposite route. I want to beef up ATF.

 

[techieny]

Why? They have shovel ready projects!

 

[AmyNation]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

 

[Dubya]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

 

[ba1614]

Get rid of every bureaucracy we can, and the atf is one that we can certainly scrap.

 

[Againsheila]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

Then put it in the FBI's job description and save us some money by getting rid of one bureaucracy.

 

[martybegan]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

For alcohol the only involvement the feds need to have is exicse taxation, and to help enforce the ability of states, counties and other local entities to prevent the import of alcohol if they so choose. The treasury can handle that.

With cigarettes, its again an issue of taxation being avoided. Treasury.

Firearms. Firearm laws are regular laws. a seperate agency is not needed. Violate state law? states handle. Violate federal law? FBI handles.

No need for the agency.

 

[nodoginnafight]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

The anti-gun control argument that goes: "Just enforce the existing laws we have" is a hollow wind when ATF has about 2500 agents, and they are not allowed to require inventories, and they are not allowed to maintain a database of sales.

 

[whitehall]

The agency is responsible for terrible criminal acts including Ruby Ridge, Waco and currently the deaths of about 400 Mexican citizens and a US Border Patrol agent. Start the prosecution for Fast/Furious and see where it leads.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The agency is responsible for terrible criminal acts including Ruby Ridge, Waco and currently the deaths of about 400 Mexican citizens and a US Border Patrol agent. Start the prosecution for Fast/Furious and see where it leads.

Waco seige was initiated by the FBI after four ATF agents (who were trying to execute a legal search warrant) were gunned down.

The Davidians who died had every opportunity to leave the compound. But I guess if you don't agree with a law, you have no obligation to abide by it, huh? There were criminals on the scene and it wasn't the FBI or ATF.

 

[Sallow]

I go the opposite route. I want to beef up ATF.

Absolutely!!

 

[Sallow]

The agency is responsible for terrible criminal acts including Ruby Ridge, Waco and currently the deaths of about 400 Mexican citizens and a US Border Patrol agent. Start the prosecution for Fast/Furious and see where it leads.

Waco seige was initiated by the FBI after four ATF agents (who were trying to execute a legal search warrant) were gunned down.

The Davidians who died had every opportunity to leave the compound. But I guess if you don't agree with a law, you have no obligation to abide by it, huh? There were criminals on the scene and it wasn't the FBI or ATF.

It's amazing that the right wing defends Christian Terrorists lead by a Pedophile.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The agency is responsible for terrible criminal acts including Ruby Ridge, Waco and currently the deaths of about 400 Mexican citizens and a US Border Patrol agent. Start the prosecution for Fast/Furious and see where it leads.

Waco seige was initiated by the FBI after four ATF agents (who were trying to execute a legal search warrant) were gunned down.

The Davidians who died had every opportunity to leave the compound. But I guess if you don't agree with a law, you have no obligation to abide by it, huh? There were criminals on the scene and it wasn't the FBI or ATF.

It's amazing that the right wing defends Christian Terrorists lead by a Pedophile.

I guess that makes Timothy McVeigh a "freedom fighter" or something????????

 

[Dubya]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

Then put it in the FBI's job description and save us some money by getting rid of one bureaucracy.

How is it saving you money? I imagine the FBI people are paid more and harder to train.

 

[Dubya]

My initial inclination is to keep it. I suppose its one of those things that I've never put serious thought into if its needed or if its functions could be carried out more effectively by other departments.

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

For alcohol the only involvement the feds need to have is exicse taxation, and to help enforce the ability of states, counties and other local entities to prevent the import of alcohol if they so choose. The treasury can handle that.

With cigarettes, its again an issue of taxation being avoided. Treasury.

Firearms. Firearm laws are regular laws. a seperate agency is not needed. Violate state law? states handle. Violate federal law? FBI handles.

No need for the agency.

I'm sure it would cost more for the FBI to do it.

 

[Dubya]

The agency is responsible for terrible criminal acts including Ruby Ridge, Waco and currently the deaths of about 400 Mexican citizens and a US Border Patrol agent. Start the prosecution for Fast/Furious and see where it leads.

A man makes a sawed off shotgun, shoots at ATF people when they go to arrest him and it's the ATF's fault in your mind. Waco involved a cultist nut who set his place on fire. Fast and Furious involves confidential information about the trafficing of guns to Mexican Drug Cartels.

You are full of it.

 

[martybegan]

Alcohol - There is still moonshine out there.

Tobacco - There are still illegal cigarettes sold by the mafia

Firearms - Would you want gansters to start carrying Thompson Machine Guns again and a host of other restricted weapons? What about gun trafficing inside the United States and guns sent to Mexico. The FBI doesn't deal with that.

For alcohol the only involvement the feds need to have is exicse taxation, and to help enforce the ability of states, counties and other local entities to prevent the import of alcohol if they so choose. The treasury can handle that.

With cigarettes, its again an issue of taxation being avoided. Treasury.

Firearms. Firearm laws are regular laws. a seperate agency is not needed. Violate state law? states handle. Violate federal law? FBI handles.

No need for the agency.

I'm sure it would cost more for the FBI to do it.

Care to back that up with some reasoning? If you have the FBI do it they already have agents in place, and the management infrastructure. If you needed some additonal agents, you could hire the best of the laid off ATF guys.

Also they would only be concerned about federal law violations. let the states enforce thier own laws.

 

[Dubya]

For alcohol the only involvement the feds need to have is exicse taxation, and to help enforce the ability of states, counties and other local entities to prevent the import of alcohol if they so choose. The treasury can handle that.

With cigarettes, its again an issue of taxation being avoided. Treasury.

Firearms. Firearm laws are regular laws. a seperate agency is not needed. Violate state law? states handle. Violate federal law? FBI handles.

No need for the agency.

I'm sure it would cost more for the FBI to do it.

Care to back that up with some reasoning? If you have the FBI do it they already have agents in place, and the management infrastructure. If you needed some additonal agents, you could hire the best of the laid off ATF guys.

Also they would only be concerned about federal law violations. let the states enforce thier own laws.

To add that work to the FBI requires more people in the FBI. I'm sure the FBI agent makes more money and their training is more expensive than an ATF agent. Your proposal is they change their hats and get a raise, but since they are now FBI, it's going to cost more to get new people. The ATF needs to expand it's gun trafficing operations, unless people like you want more guns in the hands of criminals.

 

[eflatminor]

"Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.