Elected Office Doesn't Come With A Crown

[George Costanza]

Did Bush threaten to use the army against Americans as Podesta is advising Obama to do?

Excuse me?

 

[PoliticalChic]

bush had a 28% approval rating and acted like he had a mandate.

i love the double standard.

So....which admin official proposed that he 'circumvent Congress' using all federal agencies?
The Army is a federal agency.

Care to actually refer to the OP?

The Army IS NOT a Federal AGENCY????? It is the Military. Sheesh!

the CIA is an agency, the FBI is an agency, the Office of management and Budget is an agency, the Tennessee Valley Authority is an agency, the Census Bureau is an agency

The Military is not.

FAIL....on that one!

Guess again:

"The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is a federal agency and a major Army command made up of some ..."
United States Army Corps of Engineers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further...
a·gen·cy (jn-s)
n. pl. a·gen·cies
1. The condition of being in action; operation.
2. The means or mode of acting; instrumentality.
3. A business or service authorized to act for others: an employment agency.
4. An administrative division of a government or international body.
agency - definition of agency by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I wouldn't call yours a 'fail'...just a mistake.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Obama is allowed to use his office in any way it is legal.

That is more than Bush did, He lied to the american people and outed our own agents for political gain and to create a war built on lies.

And I'm still waiting for my Conservative friends to defend THAT.

It was nice of you to use the phrase 'Conservative friends'...

welcome to the board.

 

[Madeline]

PC, have you actually read even as much as the Summary, or are you simply repeating the hysteria you read in The Daily Caller?

From the Summary, the goals urged on Obama to be pursued are:

Specifically, in the energy and environmental arena, the president can:

Reduce oil imports and make progress toward energy independence.
Progress toward reducing greenhouse gas pollution by 17 percent by 2020.
Conserve federal lands for future generations.
Manage public lands to support a balanced energy strategy.
Convene and engage hunters and anglers in the development of a fish and wildlife climate adaptation plan.
Generate solar energy on U.S. Air Force hangar roofs.

On the domestic economic policy front, President Obama can:

Direct an assessment, strategy, and new policy development to promote U.S. competitiveness.
Launch the new consumer financial protection bureau with an aggressive agenda to protect and empower consumers.
Increase the capacity of small businesses to expand hiring and purchases by accelerating the implementation of the Small Business Jobs Act.
Promote automatic mediation to avoid foreclosure where possible and speed resolution.
Create a web portal to empower housing counselors, reduce burdens on lenders, and speed up home mortgage modifications.
Help stabilize home values and communities by turning “shadow REO” housing inventory into “scattered site” rental housing.
Promote practices that support working families.

Elsewhere on the domestic policy front, the Obama administration can:

Partner with the private sector in health care payment reform.
Focus on health care prevention in implementing the Affordable Care Act.
Streamline and simplify access to federal antipoverty programs.
Replace costly, inhumane immigration detention policies with equally effective measures.

In the education policy arena, the president can:

Launch an “educational productivity” initiative to help school districts spend every dollar wisely to best prepare our children for the 21st century.
Ensure students can compare financial aid offers from different postsecondary institutions.
Improve the quality, standards, and productivity of postsecondary education.

In improving the performance of the federal government, the president can:

Scrutinize federal spending programs and tax expenditures to achieve greater returns on public investment.
Build the next-generation Recovery.gov web site to track all public expenditures and performance in real time.
Use new information technology for faster, more transparent freedom of information.
Create a virtual U.S. statistical agency.
Collect data on lesbian ,gay, bisexual, and transgender Americans in federal data surveys.

And in the foreign policy and national security arena, the president and his administration can:

Rebalance our Afghanistan strategy with greater emphasis on political and diplomatic progress.
Promote domestic revenue generation in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Appoint a special envoy for the Horn of Africa and the southwest Arabian Peninsula region.
Appoint a special commission to assess contracting practices in national security and foreign affairs.
Use executive branch authority to mitigate the impact of the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy if Congress does not repeal it.
Redouble support for Palestinian state- and institution-building efforts.
Pursue dual-track policy on Iran while sharpening focus on Iranian human rights issues.
Reinvigorate the U.S.-Turkey strategic alliance. Develop a comprehensive policy on the Russia-Georgia conflict.

This is by no means an exhaustive list of the important policy objectives President Obama can pursue over the next two years, but it illustrates the range of important executive branch work beyond proposing and negotiating legislation.

The Power of the President

Did you by chance notice the following comments also made by John Podesta?

I’m convinced that Americans want the president and the Congress to work together to ensure that judges who populate the federal bench and who serve with life tenure are highly qualified men and women whose views are within the constitutional mainstream,” Podesta said in the April 2005 speech, according to a transcript obtained by The Daily Caller. “The filibuster is a means towards that end. Why? Because it encourages presidents to consult with the Senate and to name moderate, mainstream nominees who will judge cases fairly and without bias, and who will have no difficulty garnering the votes of 60 senators that they need to be confirmed. By removing the safeguard offered by the filibuster, the nuclear option would seriously and perhaps irreparably damage an institution that has functioned since its inception under customs and traditions that ensure an atmosphere of careful deliberation and mutual respect.

Podesta calls on Obama to circumvent Congress | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment

If you'd like to discuss the proper use of Executive Orders, I am all ears. If instead, you wanna repeat rightwing hysteria about Obama supporters urging him to "circumvent the constitution", I'm less interested.

And if you repeat this nonsense that anyone has urged Obama to use US troops on US soil, I may hunt you down and set your hair on fire (j/k).

I'll see your 'hysteria' card, and play the 'chill' card...

What effect on political discussion does it have for a ...I'll inflate his rep nd call Podesta a respected public official to suggest that the armed forces play any role in countering Congress??

I'll tell you: it chills the discussion and adds an un-American element.

Now I'll tell you what you should have written, rather than the knee-jerk obfuscation: 'while it may not actually suggest that the President call out the military and arrest his political opponents, the Postesta report is ill advised and clumsy....

and some permutation of that.

And that goes for and to every one of the respondents in this thread who did not criticize the report.

You are seeing things that ain't there. Yanno, you dun have to reach this far to bang on Obama, PC. The man is a fuck up in a lot of ways that actually happen....there's no need to infer nonsense from a report issued by a liberal think tank and imput that inference to Obama.

Just sayin'....

 

[Care4all]

So....which admin official proposed that he 'circumvent Congress' using all federal agencies?
The Army is a federal agency.

Care to actually refer to the OP?

The Army IS NOT a Federal AGENCY????? It is the Military. Sheesh!

the CIA is an agency, the FBI is an agency, the Office of management and Budget is an agency, the Tennessee Valley Authority is an agency, the Census Bureau is an agency

The Military is not.

FAIL....on that one!

Guess again:

"The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is a federal agency and a major Army command made up of some ..."
United States Army Corps of Engineers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further...
a·gen·cy (jn-s)
n. pl. a·gen·cies
1. The condition of being in action; operation.
2. The means or mode of acting; instrumentality.
3. A business or service authorized to act for others: an employment agency.
4. An administrative division of a government or international body.
agency - definition of agency by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I wouldn't call yours a 'fail'...just a mistake.

Did you say the Army corp of engineers earlier or did you SAY ARMY?

the 'brown shirts' are coming?

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Navy, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congresshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, have you actually read even as much as the Summary, or are you simply repeating the hysteria you read in The Daily Caller?

From the Summary, the goals urged on Obama to be pursued are:




The Power of the President

Did you by chance notice the following comments also made by John Podesta?



Podesta calls on Obama to circumvent Congress | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment

If you'd like to discuss the proper use of Executive Orders, I am all ears. If instead, you wanna repeat rightwing hysteria about Obama supporters urging him to "circumvent the constitution", I'm less interested.

And if you repeat this nonsense that anyone has urged Obama to use US troops on US soil, I may hunt you down and set your hair on fire (j/k).

I'll see your 'hysteria' card, and play the 'chill' card...

What effect on political discussion does it have for a ...I'll inflate his rep nd call Podesta a respected public official to suggest that the armed forces play any role in countering Congress??

I'll tell you: it chills the discussion and adds an un-American element.

Now I'll tell you what you should have written, rather than the knee-jerk obfuscation: 'while it may not actually suggest that the President call out the military and arrest his political opponents, the Postesta report is ill advised and clumsy....

and some permutation of that.

And that goes for and to every one of the respondents in this thread who did not criticize the report.

You are seeing things that ain't there. Yanno, you dun have to reach this far to bang on Obama, PC. The man is a fuck up in a lot of ways that actually happen....there's no need to infer nonsense from a report issued by a liberal think tank and imput that inference to Obama.

Just sayin'....

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Now, why the heck would you want to tamp down conjecture....

Too close to the truth?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Army IS NOT a Federal AGENCY????? It is the Military. Sheesh!

the CIA is an agency, the FBI is an agency, the Office of management and Budget is an agency, the Tennessee Valley Authority is an agency, the Census Bureau is an agency

The Military is not.

FAIL....on that one!

Guess again:

"The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is a federal agency and a major Army command made up of some ..."
United States Army Corps of Engineers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further...
a·gen·cy (jn-s)
n. pl. a·gen·cies
1. The condition of being in action; operation.
2. The means or mode of acting; instrumentality.
3. A business or service authorized to act for others: an employment agency.
4. An administrative division of a government or international body.
agency - definition of agency by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I wouldn't call yours a 'fail'...just a mistake.

Did you say the Army corp of engineers earlier or did you SAY ARMY?

the 'brown shirts' are coming?

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Navy, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congresshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

1. I picked the first one that came up...it applies to either. See definition.

2. I am familiar with The Posse Comitatus Act...

the subtext of the OP is that this liberal think tank and former executive official is suggesting extra-Constitutional machinations.

Pretty dramatic, no?

Why would you quibble about the definition of agency?

 

[Madeline]

Guess again:

"The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is a federal agency and a major Army command made up of some ..."
United States Army Corps of Engineers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Further...
a·gen·cy (jn-s)
n. pl. a·gen·cies
1. The condition of being in action; operation.
2. The means or mode of acting; instrumentality.
3. A business or service authorized to act for others: an employment agency.
4. An administrative division of a government or international body.
agency - definition of agency by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I wouldn't call yours a 'fail'...just a mistake.

Did you say the Army corp of engineers earlier or did you SAY ARMY?

the 'brown shirts' are coming?

The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Army, Navy, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.

The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congresshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

1. I picked the first one that came up...it applies to either. See definition.

2. I am familiar with The Posse Comitatus Act...

the subtext of the OP is that this liberal think tank and former executive official is suggesting extra-Constitutional machinations.

Pretty dramatic, no?

Why would you quibble about the definition of agency?

The subtext you claim to see is just not there, PC. The report urges the POTUS to boldly use the full compliment of his Executive Powers, but does not even come close to suggesting "extra-constitutional machinations". That's the spin the Daily Caller gave it and it is a flawed -- one could even say deceptive -- interpretation.

It is okay to admit you were wrong, yanno. We can still be friends...I am wrong from time to time myself. Do up a thread on one of Obama's actual failures to act and I swear, I'll help you trash him.

But this Op is just goofy. This is tinfoil hat territory....you dun belong here, PC.

 

[jillian]

Did Bush's advisers tell him to overcome that by turning the army on Americans?

quiet, child. no one said any such thing.

your fevered imagination could use some calming... perhaps if you learned to use it to tell stories instead of lying on messageboards?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Did you say the Army corp of engineers earlier or did you SAY ARMY?

the 'brown shirts' are coming?

1. I picked the first one that came up...it applies to either. See definition.

2. I am familiar with The Posse Comitatus Act...

the subtext of the OP is that this liberal think tank and former executive official is suggesting extra-Constitutional machinations.

Pretty dramatic, no?

Why would you quibble about the definition of agency?

The subtext you claim to see is just not there, PC. The report urges the POTUS to boldly use the full compliment of his Executive Powers, but does not even come close to suggesting "extra-constitutional machinations". That's the spin the Daily Caller gave it and it is a flawed -- one could even say deceptive -- interpretation.

It is okay to admit you were wrong, yanno. We can still be friends...I am wrong from time to time myself. Do up a thread on one of Obama's actual failures to act and I swear, I'll help you trash him.

But this Op is just goofy. This is tinfoil hat territory....you dun belong here, PC.

There and evident.

Linking phrases such as using 'all federal agencies' with 'circumvent Congress' is giving an important peek into the thinking of the left.

And having come this close to transforming this nation into one that our Founders would not recognize, and falling short...and now having to face the repudiation by the electorate is not only galling to the left, but results in mistakes such as this report.

Unless you would like to make the case that Podesta is not an ally of President Obama..and that the phrases above do not appear in the report...


And I can't decide why you would believe that either a silly or a condescending post would have much import with me...

rather, I appeciate you help in revealing potentially dangerous thinking by the left in this country.

 

[william the wie]

While never prosecuted Clinton did use the army illegally at Waco. Seems like a left-wing tactic to trash the constitution that is fairly well established.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Does nobody on the right know how to fucking read? This is the Introduction And Summary of the report former President Bill Clinton’s chief of staff John Podesta, now the head of the Center for American Progress, spoke on.....

The Power of the President

Kindly show us exactly what portion of the report you feel in any way suggests they are urging Obama to use the US military on US soil?

Yanno, there is a worthy convo we all might could have had about the proper use of Executive Orders and the limits on Executive Powers. However, since y'all decided to jump to bizarre-o conclusions and act like a bunch of hysterical girls, I hardly feel any of you will be willing or able to now retreat, re-read and come back to this thread ready to have an actual adult convo on actual facts.

I'm more'n willing to be surprised, but I ain't holding my breath.

You have claimed to be a Republican, you are a liar or to stupid to know you are in the wrong party for your idiotic views.

 

[Greenbeard]

Linking phrases such as using 'all federal agencies' with 'circumvent Congress' is giving an important peek into the thinking of the left.

I think even a high school level government textbook would be enough to bring you up to speed on the policymaking role the executive branch plays. If it's a surprise to you that lots and lots of policy gets made in the executive branch (and, no, this isn't a circumvention of Congress, it's often explicitly at the direction of Congress, which itself retains oversight of the bureaucracy), you'll need to go back to basics on this one.

 

[mudwhistle]

Was there a single Executive Decision Bush made that wasn't threatened and obstructed by Democrats? A single Appointment? A single Recess Appointment. What people does Obama have on his side outside the Locker Room? Imaginary People? He is a dangerous Person.

The OP chides Democrats because one of them is urging President Obama to go forward with his programs in spite of the recent mid-term elections, which would seem to indicate a surge of public opinion against such action by President Obama. So, it would seem, that conservatives feel that President Obama should back off because public opinion has swung against him.

And now here you come, citing the fact that Bush had opposition to his programs as well (which, of course, he did) and conveniently leaving out that Bush went right ahead anyway. Surely no one can accuse Bush of having been shy about going forward with his agenda in spite of the fact that there was opposition to much of it. Remember - the Decider?

Unless I am missing something here, you might want to leave Bush out of the picture when arguing that Obama is a "dangerous person" because he is being advised to go ahead in spite of public opinion to the contrary.

No offense George...but Bush's primary agenda his last year was winning the friggen war and the Dems fought him tooth and nail.

 

[Father Time]

"How does one “move the country forward”? In the center’s report, Podesta explains that Obama can use executive orders, rulemaking, and even the armed forces “to accomplish important change” and that such means “should not be underestimated.”

What exactly does Podesta think the president should use such powers to “accomplish”? Among others, the report suggests “job creation,“ ”quality affordable health care,“ ”sustainable security,“ and ”a clean energy future.”

The Center for American Progress is funded by liberal billionaire financier George Soros."
Podesta: Obama Can Use ‘Armed Forces’ to Push Progressive Agenda | The Blaze

Bullshit, PC. This is dishonest crap and should be beneath you.

Go read the fucking report and come back with a quote to support this hysterical allegation that anyone suggested Obama use the US military on US soil. You can't, ain't there, and I am a tad miffed you would stoop this low to score cool points offa Obama.

Clearlly obfuscation is not beneath you.

What is dishonest is your pretending that this kind of suggestion coming from the right wouldn't have blood shooting out of your eyes!


But, cheer up...you get full credit for rule 6b and rule 8 in the playbook!


6. Claim to misunderstand, obfuscate, deflect and change the subject, and, if all else fails, allege that you misspoke.
a. Remember, left-wingers may make a ‘mistake,’ for right-wingers, it is a lie!
b. When relating a series of events that lead to a conclusion, if it is a right-wing conclusion, we must never see the connection!
c. Any exposure of detrimental information must be referred to as either ‘fear-tactics,’ or ‘red-baiting.’
d. No matter how strong the opposition argument or data, always respond with “you falsely claimed…” or “I exposed your lies…” of “I destroyed your argument…” or 'that's just your opinion' etc.

8. Remember to spend appropriate time in front of the mirror practicing outrage, shock, and disbelief, or, and best, a sarcastic sneer.

Dodge Move number 7. Ignore the question and make this about how bad the asker is. Use bullshit psychic powers if necessary.

 

[rdean]

Was there a single Executive Decision Bush made that wasn't threatened and obstructed by Democrats? A single Appointment? A single Recess Appointment. What people does Obama have on his side outside the Locker Room? Imaginary People? He is a dangerous Person.

Name it.

Give examples.

 

[rdean]

Was there a single Executive Decision Bush made that wasn't threatened and obstructed by Democrats? A single Appointment? A single Recess Appointment. What people does Obama have on his side outside the Locker Room? Imaginary People? He is a dangerous Person.

The OP chides Democrats because one of them is urging President Obama to go forward with his programs in spite of the recent mid-term elections, which would seem to indicate a surge of public opinion against such action by President Obama. So, it would seem, that conservatives feel that President Obama should back off because public opinion has swung against him.

And now here you come, citing the fact that Bush had opposition to his programs as well (which, of course, he did) and conveniently leaving out that Bush went right ahead anyway. Surely no one can accuse Bush of having been shy about going forward with his agenda in spite of the fact that there was opposition to much of it. Remember - the Decider?

Unless I am missing something here, you might want to leave Bush out of the picture when arguing that Obama is a "dangerous person" because he is being advised to go ahead in spite of public opinion to the contrary.

No offense George...but Bush's primary agenda his last year was winning the friggen war and the Dems fought him tooth and nail.

Oh yea, Democrats wanted to lose the war. Here is a perfect example:

In September 2006, with the midterm elections looming, then-Senate Republican Whip Mitch McConnell went privately to President George W. Bush to plead for a troop reduction in Iraq to help the GOP's political prospects.

Bush memoir says Mitch McConnell wanted troop cut to aid GOP candidates in 2006 | courier-journal.com | The Courier-Journal

 

[Madeline]

1. I picked the first one that came up...it applies to either. See definition.

2. I am familiar with The Posse Comitatus Act...

the subtext of the OP is that this liberal think tank and former executive official is suggesting extra-Constitutional machinations.

Pretty dramatic, no?

Why would you quibble about the definition of agency?

The subtext you claim to see is just not there, PC. The report urges the POTUS to boldly use the full compliment of his Executive Powers, but does not even come close to suggesting "extra-constitutional machinations". That's the spin the Daily Caller gave it and it is a flawed -- one could even say deceptive -- interpretation.

It is okay to admit you were wrong, yanno. We can still be friends...I am wrong from time to time myself. Do up a thread on one of Obama's actual failures to act and I swear, I'll help you trash him.

But this Op is just goofy. This is tinfoil hat territory....you dun belong here, PC.

There and evident.

Linking phrases such as using 'all federal agencies' with 'circumvent Congress' is giving an important peek into the thinking of the left.

And having come this close to transforming this nation into one that our Founders would not recognize, and falling short...and now having to face the repudiation by the electorate is not only galling to the left, but results in mistakes such as this report.

Unless you would like to make the case that Podesta is not an ally of President Obama..and that the phrases above do not appear in the report...


And I can't decide why you would believe that either a silly or a condescending post would have much import with me...

rather, I appeciate you help in revealing potentially dangerous thinking by the left in this country.

Fine. Use up all your tinfoil for a hat.

Dun come crying to me when you turkey is dry Thursday.

 

[Madeline]

While never prosecuted Clinton did use the army illegally at Waco. Seems like a left-wing tactic to trash the constitution that is fairly well established.

I dun claim to be a Waco Expert, but wasn't that the FBI?

 

[MikeK]

Did Bush threaten to use the army against Americans as Podesta is advising Obama to do?

No. But Bush authorized the use of Blackwater mercenaries against Americans in New Orleans during the Katrina disaster.

Which is worse?