Elderly Turn Against Obamacare

[Lonestar_logic]

Your logic is so flawed it's laughable. Insurance is purchased HOPING you won't need to use it. I've had car insurance for 40+ years and never once made a claim. I don't complain about the premiums necessary for that kind of peace of mind.

Fail....what if you didn't want the car insurance and were forced to pay premiums that only had limited coverage? Wouldn't you be a little pissed if you were forced to carry insurance even though the coverage sucked? You knew for a fact if you were in an accident you would have to wait months if not a year to get your car fixed. What kind of peace of mind would that really be? After all you watched your neighbors(Canada) wait several months for simple repairs(MRI's and CAT scans)?

Er, that's my point. People like Lone Star say they've never had health insurance and will refuse to get any, ever. C'est la vie. His choice. Nobody's gonna arrest him, but he's in trouble if he ever needs expensive care other than putting bandaids on something. Same thing with car insurance. You can go without, but if you drive and you're stopped, you'll be fined, and if you wreck your car you're fucked.

I beg to differ, I will not be in trouble. I have done quite well for myself in the past twenty five plus years. I recently sold some property that netted me 1.7 million dollars, so I'm confident that I can afford any healthcare emergency that befalls me or my family. As I've stated, I've never had health care coverage and the most expensive medical bill I incurred was when my wife died giving birth to my youngest son (now 19). And that bill was almost 50 grand, and it has been paid in full for quite some time now.

 

[Sinatra]

There was never a "health care emergency" - the 48 million uninsured estimates?

How many are illegals?

How many are young people choosing not to be insured?

How many are wealthy choosing not to be insured?

How many are idiots who can't fill out the forms for the basic health insurance plans provided by most states?

I recently read the actual uninsured number if you remove the above categories is about 15 million. So, all of this fuss and muss for 15 million people? This debate was not so much about helping the uninsured - it was yet another governmental power grab, pure and simple...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There was never a "health care emergency" - the 48 million uninsured estimates?

How many are illegals?

How many are young people choosing not to be insured?

How many are wealthy choosing not to be insured?

How many are idiots who can't fill out the forms for the basic health insurance plans provided by most states?

I recently read the actual uninsured number if you remove the above categories is about 15 million. So, all of this fuss and muss for 15 million people? This debate was not so much about helping the uninsured - it was yet another governmental power grab, pure and simple...

15 million may be over exaggerated.

It is true that the 46 million figure is based on unreliable Census Bureau data. But even the less unreliable Congressional Budget Office puts the number at about 31 million. And even that number, former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin claims, is an "incomplete and potentially misleading picture of the uninsured population."

For one reason, the uninsured figure counts all Americans (and illegal immigrants) who have been uninsured for any amount of time during a year, even if they happen to be between jobs or changing insurance plans or on family visits to Guatemala.

According to the CBO, 45 percent of the uninsured are uninsured for four months or less, which seems like a pretty positive number to me.

Then, another portion of uninsured Americans already qualify for existing government health insurance programs -- and government already controls 46 percent of spending on health care -- for which they have not signed up.

The CBO estimates that as many as 15 percent of the chronically uninsured are already eligible for help. The Urban Institute (hardly an advocate of free market fundamentalism) found that 25 percent of the uninsured qualify for some program.

Surely, most citizens would concur that health care is too expensive (though most citizens likely would concur that everything is too expensive) and something should be done. So when President Obama tells us that 46 million Americans are uninsured, he is implying that 46 million people can't afford health insurance. That, too, is absurd.

In a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research called "Is Health Insurance Affordable for the Uninsured?," Stanford economists say, "Based on a plausible range of definitions and assumptions health insurance is affordable for between one quarter and three quarters of adults who are not insured."

Turns out that 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999, and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000. Health insurance is just incompatible with their lifestyles, I guess.

There are obviously inconveniences -- children and mortgages, for instance -- that quickly can make $50,000 seem like a pittance. Then again, 27 percent of all adults in their 20s (many, I presume, without offspring) choose not to have health insurance. Many of them surely have the means to purchase insurance but after meticulously considering the trade-offs (imbibing or insuring?) say no thanks.

These facts do not undermine the argument for nationalized health care. (History and common sense do that already.) They do, however, point out that many statistics, to quote Huff again, get by "only because the magic of numbers brings about a suspension of common sense."

RealClearPolitics - How To Lie With Statistics -- Again

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Cool, propaganda works! The article I read about this credits it to the Republicans pretending that all the old people will be executed.

Won't matter though, if they're executed they can't vote.

As for the under thirty crowd...I would jump at the chance to pay only $2,000 a year for health coverage.

Exactly, when those in control on the Right keep lying about the Elderly being killed, eventually some start to believe that crap.

Just because some people are old does not mean they are not as totally capable of being as entirely stupid as those who are younger, LOL..... Age does not always result in wisdom.

Actually some of the things old people believe, pretty bizarre, at times...

 

[Sinatra]

There was never a "health care emergency" - the 48 million uninsured estimates?

How many are illegals?

How many are young people choosing not to be insured?

How many are wealthy choosing not to be insured?

How many are idiots who can't fill out the forms for the basic health insurance plans provided by most states?

I recently read the actual uninsured number if you remove the above categories is about 15 million. So, all of this fuss and muss for 15 million people? This debate was not so much about helping the uninsured - it was yet another governmental power grab, pure and simple...

15 million may be over exaggerated.

It is true that the 46 million figure is based on unreliable Census Bureau data. But even the less unreliable Congressional Budget Office puts the number at about 31 million. And even that number, former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin claims, is an "incomplete and potentially misleading picture of the uninsured population."

For one reason, the uninsured figure counts all Americans (and illegal immigrants) who have been uninsured for any amount of time during a year, even if they happen to be between jobs or changing insurance plans or on family visits to Guatemala.

According to the CBO, 45 percent of the uninsured are uninsured for four months or less, which seems like a pretty positive number to me.

Then, another portion of uninsured Americans already qualify for existing government health insurance programs -- and government already controls 46 percent of spending on health care -- for which they have not signed up.

The CBO estimates that as many as 15 percent of the chronically uninsured are already eligible for help. The Urban Institute (hardly an advocate of free market fundamentalism) found that 25 percent of the uninsured qualify for some program.

Surely, most citizens would concur that health care is too expensive (though most citizens likely would concur that everything is too expensive) and something should be done. So when President Obama tells us that 46 million Americans are uninsured, he is implying that 46 million people can't afford health insurance. That, too, is absurd.

In a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research called "Is Health Insurance Affordable for the Uninsured?," Stanford economists say, "Based on a plausible range of definitions and assumptions health insurance is affordable for between one quarter and three quarters of adults who are not insured."

Turns out that 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999, and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000. Health insurance is just incompatible with their lifestyles, I guess.

There are obviously inconveniences -- children and mortgages, for instance -- that quickly can make $50,000 seem like a pittance. Then again, 27 percent of all adults in their 20s (many, I presume, without offspring) choose not to have health insurance. Many of them surely have the means to purchase insurance but after meticulously considering the trade-offs (imbibing or insuring?) say no thanks.

These facts do not undermine the argument for nationalized health care. (History and common sense do that already.) They do, however, point out that many statistics, to quote Huff again, get by "only because the magic of numbers brings about a suspension of common sense."

RealClearPolitics - How To Lie With Statistics -- Again

Thank you for that information.

Cuts to the core of the Democrats complete fabrication of this "health care crisis"...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

There was never a "health care emergency" - the 48 million uninsured estimates?

How many are illegals?

How many are young people choosing not to be insured?

How many are wealthy choosing not to be insured?

How many are idiots who can't fill out the forms for the basic health insurance plans provided by most states?

I recently read the actual uninsured number if you remove the above categories is about 15 million. So, all of this fuss and muss for 15 million people? This debate was not so much about helping the uninsured - it was yet another governmental power grab, pure and simple...

15 million may be over exaggerated.

It is true that the 46 million figure is based on unreliable Census Bureau data. But even the less unreliable Congressional Budget Office puts the number at about 31 million. And even that number, former CBO Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin claims, is an "incomplete and potentially misleading picture of the uninsured population."

For one reason, the uninsured figure counts all Americans (and illegal immigrants) who have been uninsured for any amount of time during a year, even if they happen to be between jobs or changing insurance plans or on family visits to Guatemala.

According to the CBO, 45 percent of the uninsured are uninsured for four months or less, which seems like a pretty positive number to me.

Then, another portion of uninsured Americans already qualify for existing government health insurance programs -- and government already controls 46 percent of spending on health care -- for which they have not signed up.

The CBO estimates that as many as 15 percent of the chronically uninsured are already eligible for help. The Urban Institute (hardly an advocate of free market fundamentalism) found that 25 percent of the uninsured qualify for some program.

Surely, most citizens would concur that health care is too expensive (though most citizens likely would concur that everything is too expensive) and something should be done. So when President Obama tells us that 46 million Americans are uninsured, he is implying that 46 million people can't afford health insurance. That, too, is absurd.

In a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research called "Is Health Insurance Affordable for the Uninsured?," Stanford economists say, "Based on a plausible range of definitions and assumptions health insurance is affordable for between one quarter and three quarters of adults who are not insured."

Turns out that 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999, and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000. Health insurance is just incompatible with their lifestyles, I guess.

There are obviously inconveniences -- children and mortgages, for instance -- that quickly can make $50,000 seem like a pittance. Then again, 27 percent of all adults in their 20s (many, I presume, without offspring) choose not to have health insurance. Many of them surely have the means to purchase insurance but after meticulously considering the trade-offs (imbibing or insuring?) say no thanks.

These facts do not undermine the argument for nationalized health care. (History and common sense do that already.) They do, however, point out that many statistics, to quote Huff again, get by "only because the magic of numbers brings about a suspension of common sense."

RealClearPolitics - How To Lie With Statistics -- Again

Thank you for that information.

Cuts to the core of the Democrats complete fabrication of this "health care crisis"...

You're welcome and you're very correct, they need us to believe it's a crisis so they can shove their socialist agenda down our throats a little easier. Thank goodness most Americans are smarter than that.

In my opinion what needs to be done is tort reform and to allow insurance companies to compete in other states. They way it is now, if you live in California, you can't buy health insurance from a private health insurance company in Texas, even though it would be cheaper to do so.

On side note:
About the dumbest thing I've heard come out of the healthcare debate is how public option is needed to stimulate competition.

 

[DiveCon]

15 million may be over exaggerated.



RealClearPolitics - How To Lie With Statistics -- Again

Thank you for that information.

Cuts to the core of the Democrats complete fabrication of this "health care crisis"...

You're welcome and you're very correct, they need us to believe it's a crisis so they can shove their socialist agenda down our throats a little easier. Thank goodness most Americans are smarter than that.

In my opinion what needs to be done is tort reform and to allow insurance companies to compete in other states. They way it is now, if you live in California, you can't buy health insurance from a private health insurance company in Texas, even though it would be cheaper to do so.

On side note:
About the dumbest thing I've heard come out of the healthcare debate is how public option is needed to stimulate competition.

never let a crisis go to waste

 

[Sinatra]

I was actually open to some reform within the health care industry.

When no mention of tort reform was made part of the discussion, I knew then this was absolute BS by Obama and the liberal wing of the Democrat Party. There can be no real cost control measures initiated by healthcare reform w/o capping the costs of our litigious society - and getting a bunch of lawyers to vote against their own ingrained self interest will likely not happen soon...

 

[DiveCon]

I was actually open to some reform within the health care industry.

When no mention of tort reform was made part of the discussion, I knew then this was absolute BS by Obama and the liberal wing of the Democrat Party. There can be no real cost control measures initiated by healthcare reform w/o capping the costs of our litigious society - and getting a bunch of lawyers to vote against their own ingrained self interest will likely not happen soon...

there needs to be a lot of reform, but Obamacare is NOT reform, its a take over

 

[Sinatra]

I was actually open to some reform within the health care industry.

When no mention of tort reform was made part of the discussion, I knew then this was absolute BS by Obama and the liberal wing of the Democrat Party. There can be no real cost control measures initiated by healthcare reform w/o capping the costs of our litigious society - and getting a bunch of lawyers to vote against their own ingrained self interest will likely not happen soon...

there needs to be a lot of reform, but Obamacare is NOT reform, its a take over

Agreed.