either Cain or Perry both CAN make ordinary worker self sufficient!

[healthmyths]

Either one are in favor of letting the ordinary worker accumulate now I'm shouting because people don't seem to understand:
THE POWER OF COMPOUND INTEREST is the engine.
For those that don't understand:

A 23 yr worker starting at 30K a year with salary increases of 20% every
10 years would have paid in under current SS/Medicare over $300,000.
Letting the money accumulate at 5% for 42 years the ordinary worker under either Cain or Perry over $1,220,348!

A millionaire at 5% for 42 years through the power of compounding every ordinary worker can become a millionaire!

So either way... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A DEMOCRAT BECAUSE NO DEMOCRAT WANTS THE ORDINARY WORKER TO BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT!

 

[Cammmpbell]

Either one are in favor of letting the ordinary worker accumulate now I'm shouting because people don't seem to understand:
THE POWER OF COMPOUND INTEREST is the engine.
For those that don't understand:

A 23 yr worker starting at 30K a year with salary increases of 20% every
10 years would have paid in under current SS/Medicare over $300,000.
Letting the money accumulate at 5% for 42 years the ordinary worker under either Cain or Perry over $1,220,348!

A millionaire at 5% for 42 years through the power of compounding every ordinary worker can become a millionaire!

So either way... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A DEMOCRAT BECAUSE NO DEMOCRAT WANTS THE ORDINARY WORKER TO BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT!

You've had your brains blown out somewhere. The corporate executives have poisoned employees, got them crushed with falling debris, radiated them, let them die with black lung, asbestos poisoning, etc. They've contaminated the air, released radioactive material, poisoned the water, strip mined beautiful mountians until they are eyesores, killed wildlife, etc. Companies and their executives don't give a fiddler's fuck about their employees or anything else except bottom line profits and they only improve conditions when they are required to do so. Read your history books. Check out your coal mines and uranium/ plutonium processing plants and look at everything they did including murder when they were not regulated.

Democrats and their administrations have been the only organization in the history of the country which stood up for ordinary working Americans. Did you know that social security is the only program in Washington which pays it's own way...every time checks are written they take in enough to cover it. Still...every Republican administration since FDR has harped about it being some kind of ponzi scheme.

You've got your head up your ass so far that you'll never see daylight or smell fresh air again.

The bible thumping southerners, mostly half smart, go to the polls and vote against their own interests. Someone else said it but it is a fact..."Working People With Ordinary Means Voting Republican Is Analagous To A Chicken Voting For Colonel Sanders."

Republicans work for the wealthy and resent every damn dollar a working man gets his hands on. Nothing's ever changed...it's always been that way.

The reason they want young people to put their money in investments is so Wall St. can "REGULATE" the flow of cash and the rich will make 100 times more from it than any working man.

Every IPO, Tip, Insider Deal on Wall St. costs some investors and makes big profits for others. Guess who always comes out on top?

 

[healthmyths]

Why are you against the ordinary worker accumulating $1 million?
Even someone as totally IGNORANT as you can if you were allowed at the time you start your job at 23.. 10 years from now evidently from what your lack of intelligence is) set aside the $300,000 paid in by you and your employer at 23 to age 65 at 5% will accumulate $1 million!
When you become smart enough to use a spreadsheet try it.
Start when you become a worker 10 years from now assuming you are 13!) working for 45 years you will accumulate $1 million!
Why are you against the reality that can happen?
Why do you want to keep Americans poor?

 

[Inthemiddle]

Either one are in favor of letting the ordinary worker accumulate now I'm shouting because people don't seem to understand:
THE POWER OF COMPOUND INTEREST is the engine.
For those that don't understand:

A 23 yr worker starting at 30K a year with salary increases of 20% every
10 years would have paid in under current SS/Medicare over $300,000.
Letting the money accumulate at 5% for 42 years the ordinary worker under either Cain or Perry over $1,220,348!

A millionaire at 5% for 42 years through the power of compounding every ordinary worker can become a millionaire!

So either way... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A DEMOCRAT BECAUSE NO DEMOCRAT WANTS THE ORDINARY WORKER TO BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT!

Okay, now do a disabled 23 year old who is incapable of working because he was born with a significant physical challenge. How much does he make over 42 years of compound interest?

 

[Mr Natural]

An ordinary worker becomes self sufficient when he doesn't have to work anymore.

 

[healthmyths]

You wrote:
Okay, now do a disabled 23 year old who is incapable of working because he was born with a significant physical challenge. How much does he make over 42 years of compound interest?"
1) First obviously he is not a "working" ordinary person..DUH!!!

2) So is this disabled person a vegetable? Can he separate toothpicks? Can he count?

3) If he can for example like this web site offers:
www.nkschools.org/.../Environmental_Example_Research_Paper.doc
"The employees help to take apart old and used computers so they can be recycled. With the increase in ..."

Then this worker at MINIMUM WAGE of $7.00 or $14,000 a year again putting away over 42 years $130,000 will accumulate $569,496!

BUT you also seem to forget the following benefits this person can get:
Welfare recipients now eligible to receive cell phones
a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below:
Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income *
b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.
c) about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing
Choice Voucher program, pays a large
portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program
up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...
AND THIS IS IN ADDITION to HIS $14,000 a year JOB!!!

BUT all of this goes way over your head doesn't it?
YOU completely ignored the concept of the power of compound interest!
And you like most ignorant people WANT Americans to stay poor.. you don't want people to become independent...even this "disabled" person!!! You want them to be maintained in a totally DePENDENT STATE!

 

[healthmyths]

Your ignorance is appalling!
Who mentioned Wall street.. evidently you have never heard of "savings accounts"?
And NO where was there any mention of businesses, etc...

MY point is very simple but I guess too complicated for you!
Compound interest means not spending the interest but letting interest earn interest, hence the word "compound"!
ANY idiot(literally!) if their paycheck has money deducted FIRST could have under what ALL GOP people KNOW could have that money put into a savings account that averaged over 42 years 5% interest. NOTHING to do with Wall Street.. BUT you being really ignorant though don't KNOW that over the last 40 years the measure of investing has shown 8% growth.
BUT again being without any brains you have NO IDEA what I'm describing so keep on your darwinian path of destruction and it won't make any difference because apparently the ONLY thing YOU know is how to destroy...NOT to GROW!
SAD though.. people like you have interfered with people becoming independent because people like you are like animals..i.e. only can see what's in front of your snout!

 

[rightwinger]

Either one are in favor of letting the ordinary worker accumulate now I'm shouting because people don't seem to understand:
THE POWER OF COMPOUND INTEREST is the engine.
For those that don't understand:

A 23 yr worker starting at 30K a year with salary increases of 20% every
10 years would have paid in under current SS/Medicare over $300,000.
Letting the money accumulate at 5% for 42 years the ordinary worker under either Cain or Perry over $1,220,348!

A millionaire at 5% for 42 years through the power of compounding every ordinary worker can become a millionaire!

So either way... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A DEMOCRAT BECAUSE NO DEMOCRAT WANTS THE ORDINARY WORKER TO BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT!

What makes you think that $1.2 million savings will be enough to live on 42 years from now?

If you retired 42 years ago (1969) with $100,000 in savings you would have been sure it was enough to last the rest of your life....you would have been wrong

 

[kiwiman127]

Either one are in favor of letting the ordinary worker accumulate now I'm shouting because people don't seem to understand:
THE POWER OF COMPOUND INTEREST is the engine.
For those that don't understand:

A 23 yr worker starting at 30K a year with salary increases of 20% every
10 years would have paid in under current SS/Medicare over $300,000.
Letting the money accumulate at 5% for 42 years the ordinary worker under either Cain or Perry over $1,220,348!

A millionaire at 5% for 42 years through the power of compounding every ordinary worker can become a millionaire!

So either way... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN WITH A DEMOCRAT BECAUSE NO DEMOCRAT WANTS THE ORDINARY WORKER TO BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT!

Considering the trend for wage increases is not keeping up with inflation that 20% doesn't mean much.
The CPI in September 2001=178.3
The CPI in September 2011=226.9
In order to be beating inflation, the average worker would have to see an increase in their wages of at least 27.2%.. Plus the CPI doesn't include the inflation of food or fuel, so maybe the wage earner would have to have a 30% increase in their wages over ten years just to stay ahead of inflation. Ever wonder why more and more Americans are living check-to-check?

 

[Cammmpbell]

Why are you against the ordinary worker accumulating $1 million?
Even someone as totally IGNORANT as you can if you were allowed at the time you start your job at 23.. 10 years from now evidently from what your lack of intelligence is) set aside the $300,000 paid in by you and your employer at 23 to age 65 at 5% will accumulate $1 million!
When you become smart enough to use a spreadsheet try it.
Start when you become a worker 10 years from now assuming you are 13!) working for 45 years you will accumulate $1 million!
Why are you against the reality that can happen?
Why do you want to keep Americans poor?

See bud...I started my first job at 16...In 1950. That's the first time I paid into social security. I worked 40 hours a week during my junior and senior years in high school. Five days after my 18th birthday I started working rotaing shift work in the gaseous diffusion cascade in Oak Ridge, TN. I walked in that green powder and tracked it onto the carpet where my infant children were crawling. I worked there for 41 years and retired in 1993. The last 25 years I was there I was the computer operations supervisor in one of IBM's 50 largest computing centers in the world. I retired to a 4br brick with 220 ft. lake frontage. The union got everything straightened out but it took them 50 years. Most of those who worked in that uranium separation facility are dead. Cancer is as ordinary around here as the common cold. When another one of us comes up with a rare cancer how much do you think the Dept. of Labor pays? $100,000 to $150,000 depending upon how long the individual worked in the process. That's what a company will pay for an employee's life...when they're forced to do it. I saw the company negotiate with the union for every benefit we ever got. When they saw they were gonna have to give a week of vacation or add a day to the paid sick leave they would go ahead and give it to the salaried employees sometimes no more than a week before the union got it. Don't shit yourself. A company will never give any ordinary working stiff a damn thing unless they have to.

Two of my three kids have masters degrees and I'll guarantee you the odds of that happening again will occur about as often as a hen having a full set of molars. Young people are swallowing five yards of horse shit these days. The companies have run a sandy. They've set up a scenario where American workers will be earning about the same as workers in Maylasia and it doesn't take too much imagination to figure that out.

I wouldn't trust a CEO in the shithouse with a muzzle on.

 

[Dragon]

Democrats and their administrations have been the only organization in the history of the country which stood up for ordinary working Americans. Did you know that social security is the only program in Washington which pays it's own way...every time checks are written they take in enough to cover it. Still...every Republican administration since FDR has harped about it being some kind of ponzi scheme.

Just a nit for the sake of historical accuracy. If you substitute "liberal" and "conservative" for Democrat and Republican, I agree, but as you wrote this it isn't true. The first great modern liberal presidency was that of Theodore Roosevelt and he was a Republican. Herbert Hoover was also a progressive and a Republican, although of course his presidency wasn't what you'd call successful; still, he was no mossback right-winger. Even after the last Crisis era, Republican leaders included a fair number of liberals, especially judged in today's terms rather than those of their own time. Dwight Eisenhower pushed many policies that were quite progressive and, contrary to what you said, staunchly defended Social Security. So did Richard Nixon as president, and he governed as a liberal regardless of his rhetoric.

Let's not confuse ideology with partisanship, please. It happens far too often and it's basically a trap. The Republicans haven't always been conservatives, and the Democrats certainly haven't always been liberals. By and large, they aren't today.

 

[rightwinger]

Guess what?

Workers can already take advantage of THE POWER OF COMPOUND INTEREST by participating in 401ks or an IRA

 

[JakeStarkey]

Since TR all presidents except Harding and Coolidge have been progressives, either of the left wing or right wing.

Progressivism is nothing more than social, economic, cultural, and or governmental reform through political means. Those means can be by laws, executive orders, or judicial decisions.

Some on the hard right use the term absolutely incorrectly.

 

[Inthemiddle]

1) First obviously he is not a "working" ordinary person..DUH!!!

Maybe not, but if you're going to separate "working ordinary" persons out, then you may as well be separating the pistons from the cylinders, and think that you can still make the car run.

2) So is this disabled person a vegetable?

No, I said physically challenged.

Can he separate toothpicks?

Not really, no.

Can he count?

Yes. He's not an idiot. He's just severely physically impaired. I see where you're going with this, but I re-emphasize he CANNOT WORK.

3) If he can for example like this web site offers:
www.nkschools.org/.../Environmental_Example_Research_Paper.doc

Again, I repeat he CANNOT WORK.

Then this worker at MINIMUM WAGE of $7.00 or $14,000 a year again putting away over 42 years $130,000 will accumulate $569,496!

Alright, for just a moment I'll entertain the idea of him working. Do you realize you said MINIMUM WAGE!?! You really think he can even begin to cover his medical expenses on that?!?

BUT you also seem to forget the following benefits this person can get:
Welfare recipients now eligible to receive cell phones
a) Free Cell phone (my cell phone I PAY is about $100/month)
if the poor person receives just one of the below:
Food stamps * Medicaid * Section 8 * Supplemental Security Income *
b) 40 million Americans on food stamps get $200/month in free food.
c) about 2.1 million households (6 million) use Section 8 the Housing
Choice Voucher program, pays a large
portion of the rents and utilities of or the Housing Choice Voucher Program
up to $1,000 /month in FREE housing...

So these people get
=== $ 5,666 in EIC cash,
=== $12,000 free housing ,
=== $ 2,400 free food,
=== $ 1,200 in free cell phone plus
=== $ 5,000 a year in free health care from Medicaid.
So this is about $26,000 a year in FREE MONEY, free goods and free services...
AND THIS IS IN ADDITION to HIS $14,000 a year JOB!!!

Okay, wow, now you're just sounding like a raging lunatic. Either that, or a complete idiot who doesn't even know the first thing of which you speak. You're sitting here complaining about entitlements, and your solution is for people to RELY FULLY on OTHER entitlements? What a moron.

 

[healthmyths]

you wrote: "What makes you think that $1.2 million savings will be enough to live on 42 years from now?"
If you retired 42 years ago (1969) with $100,000 in savings you would have been sure it was enough to last the rest of your life....you would have been wrong"

SO??? At least there is an accumulation which NO stupid comment could eliminate which was MY point!
And unlike you I don't guess or make further unsubstantiated idiocies:
Compound Interest Calculator

$1,000,000 at for 42 years at median inflation rate of 3.5% would equal in 2010 dollars
$4,241,257 or 1/4 what $1 million buys today!

BUT remember salaries increasing with inflation of 3.5% each year for 42 years means at age 65 earning $89,000 and over 42 years would accumulate $1.19 million at 5%!
AND not all people would be as stupid as you and leave in a savings account!
Investing in growth over 42 years would yield at 8% over $2.5 million i.e. keeping up with inflation!

But again sharing these realities with idiots really is useless as you still don't understand that ONLY letting the individual direct and the money not going into the U.S. budget is the way the ordinary worker can be self sufficient and you don't want that as well as ALL Democrats... YOU and all Democrats want to be ruled by elitists/union leaders! Sheeple!

 

[rightwinger]

you wrote: "What makes you think that $1.2 million savings will be enough to live on 42 years from now?"
If you retired 42 years ago (1969) with $100,000 in savings you would have been sure it was enough to last the rest of your life....you would have been wrong"

SO??? At least there is an accumulation which NO stupid comment could eliminate which was MY point!
And unlike you I don't guess or make further unsubstantiated idiocies:
Compound Interest Calculator

$1,000,000 at for 42 years at median inflation rate of 3.5% would equal in 2010 dollars
$4,241,257 or 1/4 what $1 million buys today!

BUT remember salaries increasing with inflation of 3.5% each year for 42 years means at age 65 earning $89,000 and over 42 years would accumulate $1.19 million at 5%!
AND not all people would be as stupid as you and leave in a savings account!
Investing in growth over 42 years would yield at 8% over $2.5 million i.e. keeping up with inflation!

But again sharing these realities with idiots really is useless as you still don't understand that ONLY letting the individual direct and the money not going into the U.S. budget is the way the ordinary worker can be self sufficient and you don't want that as well as ALL Democrats... YOU and all Democrats want to be ruled by elitists/union leaders! Sheeple!

The point is that the Republican proposal to substitute a personal savings plan for SS is bullshit. There is no assurance that the money you accumulate will protect you when you are elderly

Plus...if you want to save money, there are tax free options available to you right now

 

[ladyliberal]

Your numbers are approximately correct assuming that Perry or Cain have some way of covering both the employee and employer end of FICA without paying for it.

1) If people stop paying FICA taxes, the money will have to come from somewhere else, or the benefits won't be paid. Money doesn't just magically appear when you elect a Republican.

2) Isn't the American worker already self-sufficient? They must be, since America as a whole produces a large positive GDP and the American worker is more productive than the American non-worker.

3) It is unlikely that a low-risk 5% return will be available continuously for the next 45 years.

4) You have a final salary of about $68,145.40 in your model. There are plenty of jobs where salaries don't go that high no matter how much seniority one accumulates.

5) Anyone who has been following politics knows that Obama and the Democrats have been fighting to lower payroll taxes, and Republicans have been resisting them. If your goal is to lower payroll taxes, supporting people who are more interested in cutting other taxes (eg, corporate) and who have budgets to balance is a bad bet.

6) You don't seem to consider the effects of inflation at all in your model

 

[Maple]

you wrote: "What makes you think that $1.2 million savings will be enough to live on 42 years from now?"
If you retired 42 years ago (1969) with $100,000 in savings you would have been sure it was enough to last the rest of your life....you would have been wrong"

SO??? At least there is an accumulation which NO stupid comment could eliminate which was MY point!
And unlike you I don't guess or make further unsubstantiated idiocies:
Compound Interest Calculator

$1,000,000 at for 42 years at median inflation rate of 3.5% would equal in 2010 dollars
$4,241,257 or 1/4 what $1 million buys today!

BUT remember salaries increasing with inflation of 3.5% each year for 42 years means at age 65 earning $89,000 and over 42 years would accumulate $1.19 million at 5%!
AND not all people would be as stupid as you and leave in a savings account!
Investing in growth over 42 years would yield at 8% over $2.5 million i.e. keeping up with inflation!

But again sharing these realities with idiots really is useless as you still don't understand that ONLY letting the individual direct and the money not going into the U.S. budget is the way the ordinary worker can be self sufficient and you don't want that as well as ALL Democrats... YOU and all Democrats want to be ruled by elitists/union leaders! Sheeple!

I agree with your analogy as it has been proven, the problem is I can't find a vehicle that delivers a 5% return anymore. Used to be, but not lately. Maybe some very long CD's. But it amounts to the time money is invested, I remember one example that if a 19 year old invested $2,000 yearly into an IRA from the time he was 19 and made 12% annually and he stopped at 29 and never invested again, but let it accumulate, he outperforms the person who started at 29 and invested 2,000 all the way to 65. Social security was never intended to be someone's entire retirement, it was intended to be a supplement. Unfortunately, many people have considered it a full retirement and did nothing outside of it. Democrats love it, because it gives them power over the people.

" power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." they are a corrupt party full of corrupt attorneys.

 

[truthsaga]

I vomited a little when I read this title, reminded me of hearing Obama will create millions of jobs with universal healthcare. When will this community learn..

 

[Cammmpbell]

Your numbers are approximately correct assuming that Perry or Cain have some way of covering both the employee and employer end of FICA without paying for it.

1) If people stop paying FICA taxes, the money will have to come from somewhere else, or the benefits won't be paid. Money doesn't just magically appear when you elect a Republican.

2) Isn't the American worker already self-sufficient? They must be, since America as a whole produces a large positive GDP and the American worker is more productive than the American non-worker.

3) It is unlikely that a low-risk 5% return will be available continuously for the next 45 years.

4) You have a final salary of about $68,145.40 in your model. There are plenty of jobs where salaries don't go that high no matter how much seniority one accumulates.

5) Anyone who has been following politics knows that Obama and the Democrats have been fighting to lower payroll taxes, and Republicans have been resisting them. If your goal is to lower payroll taxes, supporting people who are more interested in cutting other taxes (eg, corporate) and who have budgets to balance is a bad bet.

6) You don't seem to consider the effects of inflation at all in your model

Yeah...you gotta love Perry's proposed 20% flat tax which would automatically give the top 2% or 3% of Americans a 15% tax cut and distribute the load among the poor and middle class and it's hard for anyone who is able to think to even take seriously Cain's 9-9-9 plan. As a matter of fact after the consequences to the poor was pointed out to him it became 9-0-9.

Like the analogy which has already been alluded to:

An ordinary working American who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.