Eisenhower's Times

[gipper]

Patton would have closed the Falaise pocket and dealt the Germans bigger defeat than Stalingrad....I thought you and Camp knew this stuff

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

Yes what a terrible mistake. Many experts believe had Allied command listened to Patton and allowed him to encircle the Germans at Argentan-Falaise, the war would have ended shortly thereafter. The allies could have marched all the way to Berlin unopposed....now imagine what Stalin would have thought of that.

This might have prevented east Germany from 50 years of hell under the USSR and maybe saved other east Euro nations too.

Are there any military history experts that actually agree with that and offer some kind of substantive reasons for that opinion?

Really?

 

[regent]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

 

[gipper]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

Actually had the allies succeeded in closing the gap and preventing the Germans escape, many lives might have been saved....think no Battle of the Bulge.

Mistakes in war on commonplace. Failing to close the gap, at the earliest possible time, was a huge mistake.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

General Eisenhower was elected as a coda to the war, and a hope for new beginnings.
And, perhaps he lived up to both.
But he carried baggage, and a view that surprised quite a few.






1. Let's begin at the middle....and, later, head back to the war years.
Eisenhower was a product of his times, malleable as most are, and the crucible of his times was Franklin Roosevelt. For whatever the reasons, Roosevelt was a devotee of Stalin and the Soviets, and his administration was thoroughly infused with Soviet spies and sympathizers.

Based on the above, and one's natural inclinations where his career was involved....what should one expect?


a. But, unfortunately, the same pressures were exerted on large segments of the American population.
"Back in the 1930s, American liberals excused the communists of the Soviet Union as being simply “Liberals in a Hurry.”

Doug Ross spots a Timesperson visiting North Korea, retching at the horror before her and quips, “New York Times visits North Korea, unintentionally reveals the endgame of the Democrats’ unchecked authoritarian agenda.” Ed Driscoll » When ?Liberals in a Hurry? Reach the Endzone

Then, just as now.





b. Here is a view from the top:
"As Hitler marched into Poland, [Soviet agent] Whittaker Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself."
(Arthur Herman, "Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator," p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.
Remember, FDR was Eisenhower's boss.

c. How about Truman?
President Truman denounced the Hiss investigation as a “red herring” by do-nothing Republicans (Whitaker Chambers, Witness, p. 564-74)
Felix Frankfurter and Adlai Stevenson offered to be character witnesses for Hiss.

Such were the times.....not very different from these times.








2. Eisenhower become President on January 20, 1953. Understanding the free rein communists had in the times doesn't mean that many weren't aware of the danger posed by the communists, as many are today.
On August 24, 1953, Senator Jenner's eight-member judiciary subcommittee on internal security issued a unanimous report declaring that the penetration of the United States government by the Soviet international organization "has not been fully disclosed....


Policies and programs laid down by members of this Soviet conspiracy are still in effect within our government and constitute a continuing hazard to our national security."

And...have been largely successful in subverting America....it has been "fundamentally transformed" from what the 'greatest generation' fought for.







3. The communist penetration of the government occurred in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations, but policies and programs laid down by the Soviet conspiracy were still in effect after the Eisenhower administration had been in office seven months, according to the unanimous report of eight senators...
... there were indications that the Eisenhower administration would be little more diligent than its predecessors in exposing and eliminating the Soviet conspirators still remaining in the government.

Is that what was expected from his election?







Much of the above is based on Chesly Manly's "The Twenty Year Revolution."
It should be read by those who want to understand what went wrong, and how we got to today.

If Ike was a hope for new beginnings for america then no wonder america is a facist dictatership now. were talking about a man who stood next to Stalin and watched him murder thousands of women.I have posted that pic here many times before and will do again over the weekend when i find it again.

 

[regent]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

Actually had the allies succeeded in closing the gap and preventing the Germans escape, many lives might have been saved....think no Battle of the Bulge.

Mistakes in war on commonplace. Failing to close the gap, at the earliest possible time, was a huge mistake.

The question, however, is why didn't you give this information to Ike at that time, it surely would have saved the bulge fiasco.

 

[gipper]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

Actually had the allies succeeded in closing the gap and preventing the Germans escape, many lives might have been saved....think no Battle of the Bulge.

Mistakes in war on commonplace. Failing to close the gap, at the earliest possible time, was a huge mistake.

The question, however, is why didn't you give this information to Ike at that time, it surely would have saved the bulge fiasco.

You seem to think the Allied military command are above criticism and any criticism of them today, is merely monday morning quarterbacking. Terribly foolish.

Patton wanted to close the gap and had the ability to do so. He was told by his superiors to stop. Thus allowing the German army to escape and continue fighting. Mistakes happen and if we fail to learn from those mistakes, as you suggest we should, military leaders will make them again. Mistakes happen in war with regularity...only small minds think pointing out mistakes is the same thing as asserting some conspiracy was involved. Are you small minded?

There are several good books on the subject, You might try reading them.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

Actually had the allies succeeded in closing the gap and preventing the Germans escape, many lives might have been saved....think no Battle of the Bulge.

Mistakes in war on commonplace. Failing to close the gap, at the earliest possible time, was a huge mistake.

The question, however, is why didn't you give this information to Ike at that time, it surely would have saved the bulge fiasco.

"....why didn't you give this information...."

That sure was a knee-slapper the first thirty-forty times you wrote it.



You're a clever guy.....




.....not.

 

[regent]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

Actually had the allies succeeded in closing the gap and preventing the Germans escape, many lives might have been saved....think no Battle of the Bulge.

Mistakes in war on commonplace. Failing to close the gap, at the earliest possible time, was a huge mistake.

The question, however, is why didn't you give this information to Ike at that time, it surely would have saved the bulge fiasco.

"....why didn't you give this information...."

That sure was a knee-slapper the first thirty-forty times you wrote it.



You're a clever guy.....




.....not.

Since the same stuff is being posted the same responses still apply. Perhaps we should just number the attacks and number the responses, save time?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Bradley ordered the troops to stop closing the door on the pocket because the Canadians on one side and Americans on the other could clash with friendly fire killing both Canadians and Americans. By the time it was cleared many Germans had escaped. As it was, however, 10,000 Germans were killed and 50,000 captured. In any case it doesn't sound like it had much to do with the taking of Berlin.
I imagine many a GI lived a long life because we didn't try to take Berlin. To armchair generals on these boards does the loss of life enter their board game of generalship? Of course the response will be ending the war quicker means a less loss of life.

Actually had the allies succeeded in closing the gap and preventing the Germans escape, many lives might have been saved....think no Battle of the Bulge.

Mistakes in war on commonplace. Failing to close the gap, at the earliest possible time, was a huge mistake.

The question, however, is why didn't you give this information to Ike at that time, it surely would have saved the bulge fiasco.

"....why didn't you give this information...."

That sure was a knee-slapper the first thirty-forty times you wrote it.



You're a clever guy.....




.....not.

Since the same stuff is being posted the same responses still apply. Perhaps we should just number the attacks and number the responses, save time?

Actually, it never applied.

It was an insufferably poor attempt to dodge the points raised.

It is sophomoric....your statement that you disagree but have neither the education nor the ability to contest same.

Carry on.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

General Eisenhower was elected as a coda to the war, and a hope for new beginnings.
And, perhaps he lived up to both.
But he carried baggage, and a view that surprised quite a few.






1. Let's begin at the middle....and, later, head back to the war years.
Eisenhower was a product of his times, malleable as most are, and the crucible of his times was Franklin Roosevelt. For whatever the reasons, Roosevelt was a devotee of Stalin and the Soviets, and his administration was thoroughly infused with Soviet spies and sympathizers.

Based on the above, and one's natural inclinations where his career was involved....what should one expect?


a. But, unfortunately, the same pressures were exerted on large segments of the American population.
"Back in the 1930s, American liberals excused the communists of the Soviet Union as being simply “Liberals in a Hurry.”

Doug Ross spots a Timesperson visiting North Korea, retching at the horror before her and quips, “New York Times visits North Korea, unintentionally reveals the endgame of the Democrats’ unchecked authoritarian agenda.” Ed Driscoll » When ?Liberals in a Hurry? Reach the Endzone

Then, just as now.





b. Here is a view from the top:
"As Hitler marched into Poland, [Soviet agent] Whittaker Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself."
(Arthur Herman, "Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator," p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.
Remember, FDR was Eisenhower's boss.

c. How about Truman?
President Truman denounced the Hiss investigation as a “red herring” by do-nothing Republicans (Whitaker Chambers, Witness, p. 564-74)
Felix Frankfurter and Adlai Stevenson offered to be character witnesses for Hiss.

Such were the times.....not very different from these times.








2. Eisenhower become President on January 20, 1953. Understanding the free rein communists had in the times doesn't mean that many weren't aware of the danger posed by the communists, as many are today.
On August 24, 1953, Senator Jenner's eight-member judiciary subcommittee on internal security issued a unanimous report declaring that the penetration of the United States government by the Soviet international organization "has not been fully disclosed....


Policies and programs laid down by members of this Soviet conspiracy are still in effect within our government and constitute a continuing hazard to our national security."

And...have been largely successful in subverting America....it has been "fundamentally transformed" from what the 'greatest generation' fought for.







3. The communist penetration of the government occurred in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations, but policies and programs laid down by the Soviet conspiracy were still in effect after the Eisenhower administration had been in office seven months, according to the unanimous report of eight senators...
... there were indications that the Eisenhower administration would be little more diligent than its predecessors in exposing and eliminating the Soviet conspirators still remaining in the government.

Is that what was expected from his election?







Much of the above is based on Chesly Manly's "The Twenty Year Revolution."
It should be read by those who want to understand what went wrong, and how we got to today.

If Ike was a hope for new beginnings for america then no wonder america is a facist dictatership now. were talking about a man who stood next to Stalin and watched him murder thousands of women.I have posted that pic here many times before and will do again over the weekend when i find it again.

Here is the proof in the pudding that I wasnt blowing smoke everybody.

Eisenhower and his times? yeah traiter Ike and THESE times.

As 2 million German women were being gang raped on Stalin's orders, Eisenhower partied with 'Uncle Joe' - atop Lenin's tomb!

Who Else Liked Ike Stalin That s Who


thats a lot of hope for a lot of great beginnings for america all right.

Pc probably thinks that photo is doctored or something lunatic like that. she cant deal with cold hard facts that it is a genuine authentic photo.