Einstein on Corporations

[bripat9643]

"What you need to know is the big picture: If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — an extremely unfortunate loophole in the system of Western democratic capitalism, which never foresaw that in a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy."

What happens to your sound businesses if the US dollar ceases to function as the world's reserve currency?

How much of your wealth is held in non-dollar denominated assets?

For "Government" Sachs alums like Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin, Robert Steel, Joshua Bolten, Mark Patterson and Ed Liddy, who hold much of their wealth in assets not based on the US dollar, inflation becomes an attractive way to make national debt disappear.

How do your businesses fare if inflation turns every $5 bill in this country into a $1?

Are you really arrogant enough to believe you will survive Great Depression 2.0 untouched?

The Great American Bubble Machine | Rolling Stone Politics

Goldman Sachs doesn't cause inflation. Only the government can do that. If the dollar ceases to be the world's currency, it will be because the government has debased it and destroyed our economy, not because of Goldman Sachs. The later is only an issue because government officials are in cahoots with the firm and bail it out.

 

[bripat9643]

As I'm sure you've noticed:

"The political axiom at work is 'Big fish eat little fish.'

"There’s not enough tax money to continue swelling the fortunes of the super-rich pretending to save enough to pay the pensions and related social support that North American and European employees have been promised. Something must give – and the rich have shown themselves sufficiently foresighted to seize the initiative..."

If Goldman Sachs decides to stick its money funnel into your corporations, you won't last as long as Lehman Brothers did.

How much will your hard work be worth at that point?

Michael Hudson: Obama's Greatest Betrayal

How does this "money funnel" work? How does Goldman Sachs force any private corporation to turn their money over to it?

Please explain.

 

[bripat9643]

You're forgetting the role Frank Lorenzo and junk bonds played in Eastern's demise:

"The inside account of how Frank Lorenzo took over a sputtering Eastern Airlines and flew it into the ground. With access to the major players -- the guarded Lorenzo and his inner circle, former Eastern Airlines president Frank Borman, Peter Ueberroth, and union boss Charlie Bryan -- author Aaron Bernstein explains how Lorenzo brought a corporate raider's mentality to running a business, and how its failure marked a watershed in the 1980s 'Age of Greed.'"

Grounded: Frank Lorenzo and the Destruction of Eastern Airlines

Sorry, knucklehead, but the mechanic's union is what destroyed Eastern Airlines. You see, an airline can't make money when its pilots and mechanics are on strike. Lorenzo had nothing to do with that.

You need to pull your head out of the Kool-Aid jug. Read something from the other side of the story instead of that steady diet of Marxist swill you're so fond of.

 

[bripat9643]

Here's a partial list of democracies that collapsed into despotism in a few generations, or in some cases, in a matter of a few months:

Athens, Sparta, all the other Greek democracies, Rome, Venice, Florence, Poland, France,Corsican Republic, Hatia, Russia in 1917, Portugal, Spain, Romania, Austria, Italy, the Wiemar Republic, every country in Latin America, Rhodesia, South Africa, every other former colony in Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh

"It is the year 431 BC. Athens and Sparta are very different city-states with different governments and cultures. Athens is a Democracy, in which the citizens make all the important decisions.

"Sparta is an Oligarchy, in which a few rich men make all the decisions."

Issue Intro: War Against Sparta | Democracy in Ancient Greece

Of course, every country is different from the US. That's the classic lib argument whenever confronted with a pertinent analogy: "It's not exactly the same!" Of course, if it was exactly the same, it wouldn't be an analogy. It would be the case being discussed. You can't have two historical events that are exactly the same.

You fail.

 

[bripat9643]

The people who know how to create wealth can move wherever they want. If they don't pay their workers a living wage, there will be very few to buy whatever it is they produce.

Much of today's FIRE sector incomes doesn't involve creating anything of productive value. Wall Street functions like a casino with the taxpayers waiting to bail out the "too big to lose" losers. Big government, Wall Street and the richest 5% of Americans have recently proven government's ability to create wealth for a fortunate few while taxing the homes and pensions of millions of productive Americans into extinction.

Government doesn't create wealth. It only takes wealth from some so it can give it to others. It always takes a handling charge off the top.

The solutions to bailouts is simple: don't give bailouts. The problem is entirely one government created.

 

[bripat9643]

You want them to be successful despite the fact that you villifiy them at every turn and you pass regulations and crushing taxes that make it impossible from them to continue operating at a profit?

Who do you think you're fooling?

I don't think that there's one person here who doesn't want our business community to succeed. That is a falsehood that the Conservative spin masters love to throw out there, but very far from the truth.

The truth is, what Progressives want is for Corporations to realize that all of their antics are hurting the very people they depend upon to buy their shit. But either they don't realize it... or because of globalization and all the cheap labor readily available... they don't care. Because while they can gouge the US citizen to the breaking point(in other words..."ride the horse till she bucks you"), they can also sell their wares to lesser countries at a much cheaper price and still make a profit(cheap labor).

The problem I see is that there are no solutions other than for these big entities to grow a sense of conscience or for the American worker to work for virtually nothing(factoring the cost of living).

So yeah, we want our Businesses to be successful, but they have to remember that it's our wages that are making them successful, our country that allows them to be successful, and that in this country there is such a thing as "one person/one vote". That's their biggest fear. We can topple the profiteers if we so choose. We can, on one November day, wipe the floor with them and demand a better way of doing things.

It's time to stop asking these entities NICELY to please, PLEASE trickle down like you are supposed to and not hoard it all for yourselves.... and start DEMANDING them to. Why in THE HELL do you think they are going after organized labor so hard? Sure, it's easy to start a propaganda war against unions... and I will freely admit, SOME of their accusations have some merit. But that's not the motivation... the motivation is to get more control and give less to the people.

So many of you on here think that this whole thing is Capitalism vs. Socialism. That's the Propaganda machine. The truth is, it's more like a hybrid of the two. We want our Corporations to succeed and at the same time have a sense of responsibility when it comes down to the people of the country.

They are smart people.... they know what to do, but they are so drunk on money and power that they refuse to do it.

 

[georgephillip]

Once upon a time corporations were ruled by citizens and their elected representatives.

"States also limited corporate charters to a set number of years. Unless a legislature renewed an expiring charter, the corporation was dissolved and its assets were divided among shareholders.

"Citizen authority clauses limited capitalization, debts, land holdings, and sometimes, even profits. They required a company's accounting books to be turned over to a legislature upon request.

"The power of large shareholders was limited by scaled voting, so that large and small investors had equal voting rights. Interlocking directorates were outlawed. Shareholders had the right to remove directors at will.

"In Europe, charters protected directors and stockholders from liability for debts and harms caused by their corporations. American legislators explicitly rejected this corporate shield. The penalty for abuse or misuse of the charter was not a plea bargain and a fine, but dissolution of the corporation."

History of Corporations (United States)

Since at least 1819, judicial activists like Thomas, Scalia, and Roberts have served their masters' interests by steadily enlarging the power of corporations and big government.

Humanity won't survive another century of corporate pursuit of infinite growth on a planet of finite resources.

Your source is Reclaim Democracy! Revoke Corporate Corruption of American Democracy That's about as credible as "The Daily Worker." Everything you posted is pure horseshit. American corporations never had "scaled voting" and shareholders have always had the right to remove directors, even now. Corporations have always had to make their books available to their shareholders, which means they are public information.

However, Democrats made it much harder for the directors to be removed when they passed all manner of laws to prevent so-called "corporate raiders" from buy a controlling interest in the company.

If corporations were dissolved every time they committed some infraction of the 146,000 pages of federal regulations, there wouldn't be any corporations. Certainly, no one would invest in a crap shoot with such terrible odds.

Pull your head out of the Kool-Aid jug.

Prove "(e)verything (I) posted is pure horseshit."

Start with this:

"Citizen authority clauses limited capitalization, debts, land holdings, and sometimes, even profits. They required a company's accounting books to be turned over to a legislature upon request."

Note the distinction between making corporate books available to "shareholders" v "legislatures".

You do understand the difference, right.

What's your source for stating "American corporations never had 'scaled voting'..."

You seem to think your anonymous opinion counts as a credible source.

Prove it.

Reclaim Democracy! Revoke Corporate Corruption of American Democracy

 

[georgephillip]

Einstein's thoughts on Evil:

"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.

"We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor - not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules.

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."

Einstein Quotes on Society, Politics: What were Einstein's Political Beliefs? Einstein's Freethought Impacted his Social, Political, Economic Ideas

As I explained previously, if you want some expert opinion on economics, Einstein made a great physicist.

Now explain why your opinion on Einstein is worth considering when you never support your views.

"We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor - not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules."

Are you capable of refuting Einstein's opinion on capitalist society?

Or not??

Einstein Quotes on Society, Politics: What were Einstein's Political Beliefs? Einstein's Freethought Impacted his Social, Political, Economic Ideas

 

[georgephillip]

"What you need to know is the big picture: If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — an extremely unfortunate loophole in the system of Western democratic capitalism, which never foresaw that in a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy."

What happens to your sound businesses if the US dollar ceases to function as the world's reserve currency?

How much of your wealth is held in non-dollar denominated assets?

For "Government" Sachs alums like Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin, Robert Steel, Joshua Bolten, Mark Patterson and Ed Liddy, who hold much of their wealth in assets not based on the US dollar, inflation becomes an attractive way to make national debt disappear.

How do your businesses fare if inflation turns every $5 bill in this country into a $1?

Are you really arrogant enough to believe you will survive Great Depression 2.0 untouched?

The Great American Bubble Machine | Rolling Stone Politics

Goldman Sachs doesn't cause inflation. Only the government can do that. If the dollar ceases to be the world's currency, it will be because the government has debased it and destroyed our economy, not because of Goldman Sachs. The later is only an issue because government officials are in cahoots with the firm and bail it out.

Does Government Sachs cause wars?

"War causes inflation.

"Every major war in the past century brought inflation to some degree.

"And so did two upheavals in the Middle East, the Yom Kippur War of 1973 and the Iranian Revolution of 1979, which did not directly involve the United States, except through their effect on the price of oil. Why is this so? The big reason is that wars must be paid for, somehow. They require resources that civilians would otherwise use. Those resources must be diverted to the war effort. Usually, inflation is the easiest way. World War I was largely financed by inflation, and so were the Revolutionary and Civil Wars before that. So, though on a smaller scale, was Vietnam.

"Inflation applies the law of the jungle to war finance. Prices and profits rise, wages and their purchasing power fall. Thugs, profiteers and the well connected get rich. Working people and the poor make out as they can. Savings erode, through the unseen mechanism of the 'inflation tax' -- meaning that the government runs a big deficit in nominal terms, but a smaller one when inflation is factored in."

War Causes Inflation ...

If the dollar ceases to be the world's reserve currency it will be because the richest 5% of Americans, big business and big government decide it's time to turn inflation loose on the national debt.

 

[georgephillip]

As I'm sure you've noticed:

"The political axiom at work is 'Big fish eat little fish.'

"There’s not enough tax money to continue swelling the fortunes of the super-rich pretending to save enough to pay the pensions and related social support that North American and European employees have been promised. Something must give – and the rich have shown themselves sufficiently foresighted to seize the initiative..."

If Goldman Sachs decides to stick its money funnel into your corporations, you won't last as long as Lehman Brothers did.

How much will your hard work be worth at that point?

Michael Hudson: Obama's Greatest Betrayal

How does this "money funnel" work? How does Goldman Sachs force any private corporation to turn their money over to it?

Please explain.

"The bank's unprecedented reach and power have enabled it to turn all of America into a giant pump-and-dump scam, manipulating whole economic sectors for years at a time, moving the dice game as this or that market collapses, and all the time gorging itself on the unseen costs that are breaking families everywhere — high gas prices, rising consumer credit rates, half-eaten pension funds, mass layoffs, future taxes to pay off bailouts.

"All that money that you're losing, it's going somewhere, and in both a literal and a figurative sense, Goldman Sachs is where it's going: The bank is a huge, highly sophisticated engine for converting the useful, deployed wealth of society into the least useful, most wasteful and insoluble substance on Earth — pure profit for rich individuals."

Read more here

 

[georgephillip]

You're forgetting the role Frank Lorenzo and junk bonds played in Eastern's demise:

"The inside account of how Frank Lorenzo took over a sputtering Eastern Airlines and flew it into the ground. With access to the major players -- the guarded Lorenzo and his inner circle, former Eastern Airlines president Frank Borman, Peter Ueberroth, and union boss Charlie Bryan -- author Aaron Bernstein explains how Lorenzo brought a corporate raider's mentality to running a business, and how its failure marked a watershed in the 1980s 'Age of Greed.'"

Grounded: Frank Lorenzo and the Destruction of Eastern Airlines

Sorry, knucklehead, but the mechanic's union is what destroyed Eastern Airlines. You see, an airline can't make money when its pilots and mechanics are on strike. Lorenzo had nothing to do with that.

You need to pull your head out of the Kool-Aid jug. Read something from the other side of the story instead of that steady diet of Marxist swill you're so fond of.

When punks like Lorenzo declare war on unions they're asking for a fight.

"WHEN the machinists' strike against Eastern Airlines began 12 days ago, it was time for organized labor to start singing its old refrain, 'Which side are you on?'

"Sadly, the response from the government and the public has been, 'Not yours!"

"This anti-labor attitude was articulated best by President Bush, whose advisor for congressional affairs once served as a corporate vice-president for Frank Lorenzo, the notorious unionbusting chair of Texas Air, Eastern's parent company.
'
"Four days after 3,500 machinists walked off the job to protest a proposed 28 percent pay cut, President Bush set the tone for the public debate on the strike: 'I would urge [the striking workers] not to make the public--the innocent traveling public--a pawn in this dispute.'"

Flying the Union-Busting Skies | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

 

[skookerasbil]

Obama is going to run on over 1 billion.

The GOP has to level the playing field asshole............


ps..........buy gold s0ns!!!

 

[georgephillip]

Here's a partial list of democracies that collapsed into despotism in a few generations, or in some cases, in a matter of a few months:

Athens, Sparta, all the other Greek democracies, Rome, Venice, Florence, Poland, France,Corsican Republic, Hatia, Russia in 1917, Portugal, Spain, Romania, Austria, Italy, the Wiemar Republic, every country in Latin America, Rhodesia, South Africa, every other former colony in Africa, Indonesia, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh

"It is the year 431 BC. Athens and Sparta are very different city-states with different governments and cultures. Athens is a Democracy, in which the citizens make all the important decisions.

"Sparta is an Oligarchy, in which a few rich men make all the decisions."

Issue Intro: War Against Sparta | Democracy in Ancient Greece

Of course, every country is different from the US. That's the classic lib argument whenever confronted with a pertinent analogy: "It's not exactly the same!" Of course, if it was exactly the same, it wouldn't be an analogy. It would be the case being discussed. You can't have two historical events that are exactly the same.

You fail.

When is an oligarchy "almost exactly like" a democracy?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Einstein's thoughts on Evil:

"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.

"We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor - not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules.

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."

Einstein Quotes on Society, Politics: What were Einstein's Political Beliefs? Einstein's Freethought Impacted his Social, Political, Economic Ideas

As I explained previously, if you want some expert opinion on economics, Einstein made a great physicist.

If someone wants Einsteins knowledge of economics they aught to find out his "negotiations" when he went to teach @ Princeton.

 

[georgephillip]

Obama is going to run on over 1 billion.

The GOP has to level the playing field asshole............


ps..........buy gold s0ns!!!

When has the GOP not served the richest Americans first?

If Republicans find a candidate capable of beating Obama, raising 1 billion will not be one of their problems.

The problem seems to be finding that $billion candidate.

 

[georgephillip]

The people who know how to create wealth can move wherever they want. If they don't pay their workers a living wage, there will be very few to buy whatever it is they produce.

Much of today's FIRE sector incomes doesn't involve creating anything of productive value. Wall Street functions like a casino with the taxpayers waiting to bail out the "too big to lose" losers. Big government, Wall Street and the richest 5% of Americans have recently proven government's ability to create wealth for a fortunate few while taxing the homes and pensions of millions of productive Americans into extinction.

Government doesn't create wealth. It only takes wealth from some so it can give it to others. It always takes a handling charge off the top.

The solutions to bailouts is simple: don't give bailouts. The problem is entirely one government created.

Through progressive taxation government creates the roads, schools and courts necessary for private wealth to exist.

You're right about government redistributing wealth. The latest example was the $13 trillion bail out of Wall Street that nearly doubled the richest 5% of Americans share of returns to wealth.

That crime was due to big government, big business (Wall Street) and the richest 5% of Americans conspiring against the interests of the majority of citizens. The unstated axiom at work is that only "government" gets blamed for the crimes.

 

[georgephillip]

Einstein's thoughts on Evil:

"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.

"We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor - not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules.

"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."

Einstein Quotes on Society, Politics: What were Einstein's Political Beliefs? Einstein's Freethought Impacted his Social, Political, Economic Ideas

As I explained previously, if you want some expert opinion on economics, Einstein made a great physicist.

If someone wants Einsteins knowledge of economics they aught to find out his "negotiations" when he went to teach @ Princeton.

Simply because Einstein was incapable of filing his own income taxes doesn't mean he was wrong about "the economic anarchy of capitalist society." You're conflating arithmetic skills with chaos theory.