Egypt's Baradei Under House Arrest

[L.K.Eder]

True, some Egyptian women have gotten out of hand and adopted Western styles and manners.

But that will change if the right people gain control of their nation and reintroduce Islamic standards.

Who are the right people though? the Muslim Brotherhood? correct me if I'm wrong but the people in Egypt are not rioting to be more Islamic, they are rioting because of a corrupt government, bad economy and not enough jobs to go around.

Oh that's a good way to do it, tear the country up, burn it down and scare off every tourist around the world for the next year.. Yay team.

yeah, those egypterers should go home and shut up.

then sell trinkets to fat american tourists being carried from the nile cruiseships to the temples near luxor.

what are they complaining about?

 

[High_Gravity]

Who are the right people though? the Muslim Brotherhood? correct me if I'm wrong but the people in Egypt are not rioting to be more Islamic, they are rioting because of a corrupt government, bad economy and not enough jobs to go around.

Oh that's a good way to do it, tear the country up, burn it down and scare off every tourist around the world for the next year.. Yay team.

yeah, those egypterers should go home and shut up.

then sell trinkets to fat american tourists being carried from the nile cruiseships to the temples near luxor.

what are they complaining about?

Fat American tourists? what about the Euros that go to Egypt? they are somehow better?

 

[Sunni Man]

But, Islam is already the state religion in Egypt right? how would making Egypt more Islamic solve their economis issues?

Yes, Islam is the official state religion in Egypt.

But decades of corrupt western backed puppet leaders have watered down the Islamic influence in the government.

A strident Islamic based leader would bring Egypt back in line with Islamic laws concerning government, economy, morality, and other issues.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Oh that's a good way to do it, tear the country up, burn it down and scare off every tourist around the world for the next year.. Yay team.

yeah, those egypterers should go home and shut up.

then sell trinkets to fat american tourists being carried from the nile cruiseships to the temples near luxor.

what are they complaining about?

Fat American tourists? what about the Euros that go to Egypt? they are somehow better?

not better, but most likely not as fat. huargh.

and of course i was posting about americans, as this is a US board, and willow is american. and i was mocking willow's post.

 

[JWBooth]

But, Islam is already the state religion in Egypt right? how would making Egypt more Islamic solve their economis issues?

Yes, Islam is the official state religion in Egypt.

But decades of corrupt western backed puppet leaders have watered down the Islamic influence in the government.

A strident Islamic based leader would bring Egypt back in line with Islamic laws concerning government, economy, morality, and other issues.

Not something to look forward too either. Trading a repressive secular regime for a repressive theocratic regime.

 

[jillian]

So you immediately move to some historian's OPINION. Why don't you read the Qur'an? Of the 6,346 verses, only 111 refer to jihads. How does that compare to The Bible? The sad part is that there are factions that cherry-pick both of those to suit their own agendas.

Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side:

Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam

See, I have read the Koran, the new testament and the old testament. I can tell you that there is no comparison between the way Islam treats it's non-believers and the way other religions do. I would suggest you ask yourself which Muslim countries have freedom of religion.

 

[jillian]

The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

That would be nice. I don't believe you know bvery much about the region. In fact, I know you don't. This could be either very good or very bad, depending upon who the new regime is. You would know that if you actually understood the middle east

Truth Matter is indeed very very niaeve if she believes Muslim youth are ravenous for American style democracy.

She has this absurd idea of what fundamentalist Muslims are and who is fomenting unrest. Yes, Mubarak has not been what we would call a particularly democratic leader, but at least, in part, the oppression is to keep the country away from terroristic loons

 

[High_Gravity]

But, Islam is already the state religion in Egypt right? how would making Egypt more Islamic solve their economis issues?

Yes, Islam is the official state religion in Egypt.

But decades of corrupt western backed puppet leaders have watered down the Islamic influence in the government.

A strident Islamic based leader would bring Egypt back in line with Islamic laws concerning government, economy, morality, and other issues.

I guess I'm just having trouble seeing how an Islamic government would help the Egyptian economy since they make alot of money off of tourism, if Egypt turned into a religious theocracy that would kill their tourism industry.

 

[High_Gravity]

That would be nice. I don't believe you know bvery much about the region. In fact, I know you don't. This could be either very good or very bad, depending upon who the new regime is. You would know that if you actually understood the middle east

Truth Matter is indeed very very niaeve if she believes Muslim youth are ravenous for American style democracy.

She has this absurd idea of what fundamentalist Muslims are and who is fomenting unrest. Yes, Mubarak has not been what we would call a particularly democratic leader, but at least, in part, the oppression is to keep the country away from terroristic loons

Oh we learned the same thing about Saddam, yes he was a sadistic bastard but he kept the religious nuts at bay. We took him down and now you got guys like Muqtada Al Sadr in the government and terrorist attacks everyday, say what you want about Saddam but he knew what he had to do to keep the Islamic terrorists quiet like church mice.

 

[Sunni Man]

I guess I'm just having trouble seeing how an Islamic government would help the Egyptian economy since they make alot of money off of tourism, if Egypt turned into a religious theocracy that would kill their tourism industry.

I am sure there would still be tourist areas much like the Gulf States have in place.

 

[High_Gravity]

I guess I'm just having trouble seeing how an Islamic government would help the Egyptian economy since they make alot of money off of tourism, if Egypt turned into a religious theocracy that would kill their tourism industry.

I am sure there would still be tourist areas much like the Gulf States have in place.

The thing is the Gulf States aren't Islamic theocracies though, except the Saudis and they don't need tourism to survive.

 

[GHook93]

No, they want rid of a brutal U.S. backed dictator.

And they want to replace it will a 10 fold more brutal Islamic dictator, that will expell all the Christians, make sure all women are covered head to toe and Sharia Law reigns supreme!

Women who cover and Sharia Law sounds good to me.

I prefer less clothes!

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Be very careful what you wish for people. We just don't know who will replace the Mubarak regime. This region is well known for even worse regimes waiting in the wings to take over. Just look at what happened in Iran. The Shah was not an ideal leader but look at who replaced him. The deranged Islamic Clerics ended up taking over after he was over-thrown. They ushered in the dark age of radical Islamic Terrorism all over the World. So was the Shah really that bad after all? Just be careful with those early celebrations. There could be much worse forces out there ready to take over Egypt if Mubarak falls. I would say the same thing about the Lebanon turmoil as well.

 

[High_Gravity]

And they want to replace it will a 10 fold more brutal Islamic dictator, that will expell all the Christians, make sure all women are covered head to toe and Sharia Law reigns supreme!

Women who cover and Sharia Law sounds good to me.

I prefer less clothes!

 

[Ropey]

But, Islam is already the state religion in Egypt right? how would making Egypt more Islamic solve their economis issues?

Yes, Islam is the official state religion in Egypt.

But decades of corrupt western backed puppet leaders have watered down the Islamic influence in the government.

A strident Islamic based leader would bring Egypt back in line with Islamic laws concerning government, economy, morality, and other issues.

Not something to look forward too either. Trading a repressive secular regime for a repressive theocratic regime.

Yes, but this is what we need to see. Will their choice bring in leaders who are for the people? If so, will the people get what they want?

Do they know what they want? Let's see what they want and if they get what they want.

 

[GHook93]

These people want democracy.

I don't want Democracy in the Middle East. I want the regimes in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Qatar, Kuwait and even Syria and Libya (Yep Asssssad hates the Jews, but he is not attacking them or really under threat to attack the, his country is stable and not developing nukes; Gadhafi was a shithole Terrorist supporter, but now he is like the crazy old moron in the room, but he isn't developing WMDs and they are the terrorist haven they used to be)!

Democracy in the Radical Nutjob Muslim World is over-rated!

 

[High_Gravity]

These people want democracy.

I don't want Democracy in the Middle East. I want the regimes in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Qatar, Kuwait and even Syria and Libya (Yep Asssssad hates the Jews, but he is not attacking them or really under threat to attack the, his country is stable and not developing nukes; Gadhafi was a shithole Terrorist supporter, but now he is like the crazy old moron in the room, but he isn't developing WMDs and they are the terrorist haven they used to be)!

Democracy in the Radical Nutjob Muslim World is over-rated!

Israel bombed a Syrian nuclear reactor they were building with help from North Korea, plus the headquarters of Hamas is in Damascus as well numerous Iraqi insurgents.

LONDON: Israel destroyed a secret Syrian nuclear reactor in September 2007, according to a US diplomatic cable cited Friday in the Israeli newspaper.

The cable, which the Israeli paper said it had obtained ahead of its publication by WikiLeaks, was written on April 25, 2008, by then Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and stated that “on September 6 2007, Israel destroyed the nuclear reactor built by Syria secretly, apparently with North Korea's help.”

Israel bombed Syria nuclear reactor: cable - GEO.tv

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'll start, Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

True...and you ended there, as well?

How many members are there in the Organizatin of the Islamic Conference (OIC) ?

Hint:

How childish, PC. You disappoint me.

Turkey, Malaysia, and Bangladesh are also democracies. Algeria and Nigeria have a mixed democracy, Iran's is a theocratic democracy, and of course Afghanistan has a weak, forced democracy.

Your question, however, is foolish. That's like expecting the United States NOT to be a member of NATO.

One thing I think everyone is forgetting here, when it comes to Muslim nations and their identities, is that many of the PEOPLE of those countries still cling to their ancient histories apart from the Mesopotamia regions which developed schools and laws and modernized farming techniques. Just like any other country, including the United States, an uneducated population is an oppressed population.

Exhilarating!

Must tell you how thrilled I am back to be on our historic footing: virtual enmity! Enough of that agreement stuff!
Now, on to work:

1. Old saw's tend to be very true: haste makes waste. In your haste to rush to the attack, you failed to read post #31, which included the positive aspect found in Indonesia!
So, old friend, your intermittent reading habits obviate your post!
Touche!

2. "How childish, PC."
If it were childish, what made you go to the trouble of verifying my point: the overwhelming majority of islamic nations do not subscribe to democracy....The OIC has 60 members.
even several of the ones that you list would not be what is meant by democracy in this nation....
you do understand our constitutional democracy, don't you?
Ready to play patty-cakes?

- I just got what made you so mad! The Obama 57 state thing! And the fact that there are 57 members of the OIC and 3 observing members!
Poked your Democrat sensibitities???? Good.


3. "You're expecting Muslim nations to NOT be members in the OIC?"
No, I'm expecting to prove that democracy rarely finds a home in a Muslim nation.
Thank you for helping me to prove same.

4. "Your question, however, is foolish. "
And you make a habit of responding to 'foolish' questions?
No, you 'foolishly' believed that using words like 'childish' and 'foolish' would have some sort of moment, would score some debating points.
That, my dear, is both childish and foolish.

5. Now, as for the final paragraph, "One thing I think everyone is forgetting here, when it comes to Muslim nations and their identities, is that many of the PEOPLE of those countries still cling to their ancient histories apart from the Mesopotamia regions which developed schools and laws and modernized farming techniques. Just like any other country, including the United States, an uneducated population is an oppressed population."

Rather than astute and erudite, it sounds more like Professor Irwin Corey explaining the infield fly rule.
A veritable word salad!

"Muslim nations...identities...PEOPLE...cling to their ancient histories ...Mesopotamia...schools and laws and modernized farming...oppresssed people of the United States..."??????

Sorry, but this essay earns you a failing grade.

While it is good to have you back in your traditional role, I'm afraid that today you have served as the 'human piñata.'

 

[PoliticalChic]

The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

I wish I could agee.

You underestimate the power of the Koran.

Tocqueville writes in "Democracy in America," that while the Christian faith is fully compatible with democracy, Islam cannot be. Islam "will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst [Christianity] is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods" (Part II, First Book, Chapter 5, ¶ 1103).

So you immediately move to some historian's OPINION. Why don't you read the Qur'an? Of the 6,346 verses, only 111 refer to jihads. How does that compare to The Bible? The sad part is that there are factions that cherry-pick both of those to suit their own agendas.

Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side:

Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam

1. None but the uneducated would refer to Alexis de Tocqueville as 'some historian.'

2. Based on that evinced lacunae, I'm going to assume that you know as much about the Koran, as about Tocqueville.
So here is a lesson on same:

Americans have very little understanding about Islam. The religious and political aspects are contained in the Koran, organized into Sura, which is not organized numerically, but rather with the longest first, and the shortest toward the end. The believer is required to look at the ones written after Muhammad went to Medina, in 622 ad, for guidance.: these later sura rule over the earlier ones. This is know as the theory of abrogation. The suras that entail supremacy include:

a. "fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5).
b. Verse 29 of chapter 9 of the Qur’an mandates that the Muslims fight against the Jews and Christians “until they pay the jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

c. Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

These sura are the most radical and violent. Nor are they subject to interpretation:

d. The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice;
there is NONE who can change His words.
He both heareth and knoweth.
-- Sura 6:115 None can change the words of God;
-- Sura 6:34

e. There is no changing the words of God;
that is the mighty triumph.
-- Sura 10:64

f. And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord,
there is none who can alter His words;
and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.
-- Sura 18:27

And the Koran explains why the later sura supersede the prior:

g. And for whatever verse we abrogate and cast into oblivion
We bring a better or the like of it;
knowest thou not that God is powerful over everything?
-- Sura 2:106

h. And when We exchange a verse in place of another verse --
and God knows very well what He is sending down --
they say, 'Thou art a mere forger!'
Nay, but the most of them have no knowledge.
-- Sura 16:101

Wherein do you see a belief in a constitutional democracy?

Hillsdale’s Kirby Center sponsored a lecture by Brian Kennedy, President of Claremont Institute, and Ballistic Missile Defense Project Director. The above reference to the Koran are from that lecture.

3. "Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side"
How about you take a look at this, and open your eyes:

From "The Farhud," by Edwin Black:
Jews had lived in Iraq for some 2600 years, but the origin of this mass Muslim movement was in 627. At that time, Mohammed, defending Medina, judged the Jewish tribe to be guilty of aiding the Meccan attackers, and oversaw such acts as the beheading of 900 captives of the Banu Qurayzah tribe, he watched the bodies thrown into a pit.

(… in his 1895 biography of Muhammad ("Mahomet and Islam", London, 1895, p. 151), which relied entirely on the original Muslim sources, the scholar Sir William Muir observed:
"The massacre of the Banu Coreiza was a barbarous deed which cannot be justified by any reason of political necessity the indiscriminate slaughter of the whole tribe cannot be recognized otherwise than as an act of monstrous cruelty?")
The Legacy of Jihad [Andrew G. Bostom] - Muhammad, the Qurayza Massacre, and PBS


The point to be gleaned from the above two notes? The extermination of the Jews of Medina represents the iconic moment in Islam, just as the Sermon on the Mount is the iconic moment of Christianity, or the parting of the Red Sea is for the Jews.

How's that for the "similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side."

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think for that to be truth, we first have to identify who "they" are. If Egyption women are also westernized, and many are, they would loudly object to being completely covered. Trust me.

True, some Egyptian women have gotten out of hand and adopted Western styles and manners.

But that will change if the right people gain control of their nation and reintroduce Islamic standards.

I could just see the 'new Egypt' now....

here's their new tourist bumper sticker:

'What happens in Cairo stays in Cairo...along with your hands!"