Egypt's Baradei Under House Arrest

The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

I wish I could agee.

You underestimate the power of the Koran.

Tocqueville writes in "Democracy in America," that while the Christian faith is fully compatible with democracy, Islam cannot be. Islam "will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst [Christianity] is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods" (Part II, First Book, Chapter 5, ¶ 1103).
If by Democracy you mean the people electing their leaders.

Then yes, Egyptians have no problem with democracy.

But, they reject the secular style of Democracy and Laws that America and the West has devolve into.

In essence, they want Democratic elections, but their laws still based on Islamic principals and laws. :cool:
 
These people want democracy.

No, they want rid of a brutal U.S. backed dictator. :doubt:

And they want to replace it will a 10 fold more brutal Islamic dictator, that will expell all the Christians, make sure all women are covered head to toe and Sharia Law reigns supreme! :eusa_whistle:

So true.

If you have not done so, I would recommend "The Seige of Mecca," by Trofimov, which gives some insight into the kind of people fomenting riots in Egypt, and what they really want- pretty much as you outlined it.

BTW, the brother of the ringleader, Juhayman, is one of the men who assassinated Sadat.
 
These people want democracy.

No, they want rid of a brutal U.S. backed dictator. :doubt:

And they want to replace it will a 10 fold more brutal Islamic dictator, that will expell all the Christians, make sure all women are covered head to toe and Sharia Law reigns supreme! :eusa_whistle:
How do you know this? Have the protesters claimed they are the vanguard of an Islamic revolution?

Or are you willing to forget history like so many other have at our peril? We have strongmen in power all around the world. Whenever a revolt topples one of them, some myopic Americans first see a communist lining to the cloud of popular revolution. Now, those same myopic Americans see an Islamic threat behind popular revolution. The paranoid, myopic Americans never see the truth, only the threat to American imperialism.

Maybe, just maybe, the people of Tunisia, Egypt, soon Jordan and Yemen want a less repressive government and freedom.
 
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Those in the streets want Mubarak's regime out and a less repressive one in its place.
Democracy has nothing to do with it either way.

You beat me to it. They want an end to Mubarak's dictatorship. Technically, Egypt does have a "democracy," but you'd never know it.
 
The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

I wish I could agee.

You underestimate the power of the Koran.

Tocqueville writes in "Democracy in America," that while the Christian faith is fully compatible with democracy, Islam cannot be. Islam "will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst [Christianity] is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods" (Part II, First Book, Chapter 5, ¶ 1103).
If by Democracy you mean the people electing their leaders.

Then yes, Egyptians have no problem with democracy.

But, they reject the secular style of Democracy and Laws that America and the West has devolve into.

In essence, they want Democratic elections, but their laws still based on Islamic principals and laws. :cool:

What you describe is paradoxical...since all laws come from the Koran. Imagine a Jew or Copt or Hindu in such a land.

To work, Egyptians would have to be more open to divesity, as the Indonesians are:
"In any case, Indonesians, by and large, are not given to extremism of any sort and tend to regard religion as a matter of personal faith. "
Indonesia as a democracy model | The Jakarta Post

On the one hand, you saw the murder of Copts recently. On the other, a judge sentenced the culpit to death.

If the Muslim Brotherhood can grab power, this will not be the case. Time will tell.
 
Go listen to the young people who are protesting.

They want democracy.


It is also what the young people in Iran have protested for.


Maybe you people fear democracy?

Here's an easy one for you, Ms.Truthie...

Could you name all of the Muslim nations where democracy reigns?

Indonesia: Democracy, Islam do mix / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
One such nation - the largest Muslim country in the world - is Indonesia. Its 216 million people have survived colonialism under the Dutch, a slide toward communism under Sukarno, an abortive coup attempt that led to a nationwide bloodletting, years of corrupt dictatorship under Suharto, violent separatist upheavals and religious tensions, and a flurry of Al Qaeda-style terrorism.

By all measures, Indonesia should be an international basket case, difficult terrain for democracy. Yet with all its past turmoil, it is moving purposely through a complicated election process in which the once tender shoots of democracy are blooming healthily.

Indonesia also has the greatest success rate in tracking down, arresting and jailing Islamist radicals all on their own.
 
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Jillian we don't want regime change or democracy in the Middle East outside of Israel. What happens when they do, we get extremist in. The Arab world strongest people are extremists. Screw the PC BS, its true. Hezbollah rules Lebanon. If Saudi Princes, King Hussian, Yemen President, Muburak, Algerian President etc fall they will all be replaced with antiwestern, antiAmerican, Islamic, Sharia Law, terrorist supporting dictators!

Tunsia will be run by antiwestern Islamic Dictator! Leftist will say the Tunsian President oppressed the people. Might be true, but the new government won't be any better, in fact he will be worse! Just like the Shah in Iran. Everyone wants to make it like the Shah was so brutal, but Ayatollahs, although they hate they west, are good to their people. Bullshit, the Ayatollahs oppress and brutalize their people 10 fold worse than the Shah!

Each of those countries needs to deal with radical forces on their own. They weren't successful in "taking over" India following the Mubai attacks a few years ago; they weren't successful taking over Iraq; and they won't succeed in taking over the Arab monarchy. The superpowers won't allow that because they need their oil.
 
These people want democracy.

I wish that that were the case...for a decade at least the Muslim Brotherhood has been fomenting this kind of unrest...

They may hide behind a democracy movement, but we may be watching the birth of another Iran.

Iran's democracy is laughable. The Ayatollah (who is in charge of the entire country including miltary) and the Supreme Council are not elected. Even candidate for President and Parliament must submit to them for the OK. They regularly toss out the reformer candidates and push forward Hardline candidates.

But it doesn't matter because they rig the elections anyways!


I like Syria's democracy also. Asssssad is the only one on the Ballot sheet. So your option is to vote for Asssad or no one (no write in candidates allowed)!

That's the way Mubarak ruled Egypt up until last year, when Egypt held it's first election. Of course it wasn't exactly a clean election, so that may be one of the main reasons for the current turmoil. All his opponents needed was a spark to make their voices heard, which was Tunisia.
 
I see you put super powers as a pural...though not exact, I am glad you recognize that just about every nation ouotside the ME wants us to sppt. whomever has to be sptted. as long as they keep the spigot turned on.
Most folks don't want to admit that inconvenient truth.

" the spice must flow....";)
 
Could you name all of the Muslim nations where democracy reigns?

I'll start, Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the world's largest population of Muslims. Indonesia is a republic

True...and you ended there, as well?

How many members are there in the Organizatin of the Islamic Conference (OIC) ?

Hint:


How childish, PC. You disappoint me.

Turkey, Malaysia, and Bangladesh are also democracies. Algeria and Nigeria have a mixed democracy, Iran's is a theocratic democracy, and of course Afghanistan has a weak, forced democracy.

Your question, however, is foolish. You're expecting Muslim nations to NOT be members in the OIC? That's like expecting the United States NOT to be a member of NATO.

One thing I think everyone is forgetting here, when it comes to Muslim nations and their identities, is that many of the PEOPLE of those countries still cling to their ancient histories apart from the Mesopotamia regions which developed schools and laws and modernized farming techniques. Just like any other country, including the United States, an uneducated population is an oppressed population.
 
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The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

I wish I could agee.

You underestimate the power of the Koran.

Tocqueville writes in "Democracy in America," that while the Christian faith is fully compatible with democracy, Islam cannot be. Islam "will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst [Christianity] is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods" (Part II, First Book, Chapter 5, ¶ 1103).

So you immediately move to some historian's OPINION. Why don't you read the Qur'an? Of the 6,346 verses, only 111 refer to jihads. How does that compare to The Bible? The sad part is that there are factions that cherry-pick both of those to suit their own agendas.

Take a look at the similaries between the two religions, explained side-by-side:

Comparing and contrasting Christianity and Islam
 
The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

What these youth want is not the same democracy you are thinking of, they spit in the face of American democracy.

Are you kidding? I haven't studied the leanings of younger people in Egypt, but the young generations in Iran are extremely westernized and want to stay that way. They outnumber the elders by two thirds of the population in Iran, and it's only a matter of time before the Mullahs will be sitting all alone. Are they still Muslims? Most are, but so what? Perhaps if people stopped trying to lump peaceful Muslims in with al-Qaeda type radicals, there would be fewer recruits joining the latter. People (any people) can be denigrated only so much before they will begin to rise up as one.
 
The youth of the middle east want democracy.

They have protested for it in these countries.

You would think Americans would be glad

What these youth want is not the same democracy you are thinking of, they spit in the face of American democracy.

Are you kidding? I haven't studied the leanings of younger people in Egypt, but the young generations in Iran are extremely westernized and want to stay that way. They outnumber the elders by two thirds of the population in Iran, and it's only a matter of time before the Mullahs will be sitting all alone. Are they still Muslims? Most are, but so what? Perhaps if people stopped trying to lump peaceful Muslims in with al-Qaeda type radicals, there would be fewer recruits joining the latter. People (any people) can be denigrated only so much before they will begin to rise up as one.

So you are saying the youth in Iran want to embrace American style democracy? I am sure some would like it but I wouldn't want to say most of them do.
 

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