Egyptians vote freely for the first time

[Chris]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

 

[tigerbob]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

Keeping my fingers crossed about this.

 

[Trajan]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

carry it forward to what exactly? all that glitters is not gold.


another view-

The referendum comes five weeks after Mr. Mubarak's fall. Four months later parliamentary elections are due, followed in September by a presidential poll. It's a mad rush. By comparison, South Africa spent four years negotiating the terms of its democratic handover between the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison to its first free elections in 1994.

Many Egyptians called for a steady, transparent and prolonged transition the moment Mubarak left. After three decades of his calcified rule, Egypt lacked proper parties, free media or democratic habits. This takes time to develop.

The generals' decision to rush reflects either a lack of vision for Egypt's future, a desire to avoid responsibility for governing a huge and troubled state, or the preference for keeping the status quo minus the old pharaoh. Probably all of the above.

The approach benefits the groups best organized today. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928, and remnants of the old ruling National Democratic Party are the loudest champions of today's referendum and the current timetable. They want elections before democratic forces can organize.

If the military sticks to this calendar, the bulk of power could fall into their hands. The Brotherhood says it won't contest the presidency, but the group will run for parliament and may win a plurality. There they would be well-placed to write the political rules for the new Egypt. One of the amendments up for vote today gives the legislature the power to draw up a new constitution.

Even if free, today's vote is flawed. The amendments were written by a group handpicked by the military that didn't include anyone from an organized political group other than the Muslim Brotherhood. All leading secular democratic figures in Egypt opposed the referendum. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on her first visit to post-Mubarak Cairo this week, missed an opportunity to lend America's voice to the debate. "We don't have an opinion" on the referendum, she said. We should.

Review & Outlook: Egypt's Flawed Transition - WSJ.com



from your ow link-

snip-

Yes or no vote?

Despite the broad enthusiasm for holding a vote, a number of leading political figures, particularly those most closely identified with the Tahrir Square revolt, called for a no vote. The figures include two announced presidential candidates, Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League.

They and other critics said there had not been enough time since Mubarak’s downfall for voters to understand fully what they were deciding on in the referendum. In addition, they said, the military’s accelerated schedule did not allow time for new parties to form and organize their followers. This, they said, gave an unfair advantage to two established parties, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.

As ElBaradei arrived to vote in the Mokattam area, a mob supporting a “yes” vote swarmed his car, smashed its windows and began throwing rocks at him, said a witness, Dina Abou Elsoud, 35. “The crowd was Muslim, saying ‘Vote yes for Islam’ and waving Muslim Brotherhood signs. . . . He didn’t get to vote. He didn’t get to go inside.”

Later, ElBaradei tweeted that he and his family were “attacked by a group of organized thugs” and faulted the police as “irresponsible.”

One of those voting no in Zamalek was Tarek el-Gazzar, a 34-year-old lawyer, who tapped out Facebook updates on his iPad while standing in a three-block line, alerting friends to expect waits of up to two hours. He expressed hope that the large turnout would include a majority of nos.

 

[Chris]

The world is becoming more democratic.

This trend will continue.

What will Glenn Beck wet his pants about now?

 

[elvis]

The world is becoming more democratic.

This trend will continue.

What will Glenn Beck wet his pants about now?

You sitting on his lap.

 

[California Girl]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

carry it forward to what exactly? all that glitters is not gold.


another view-

The referendum comes five weeks after Mr. Mubarak's fall. Four months later parliamentary elections are due, followed in September by a presidential poll. It's a mad rush. By comparison, South Africa spent four years negotiating the terms of its democratic handover between the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison to its first free elections in 1994.

Many Egyptians called for a steady, transparent and prolonged transition the moment Mubarak left. After three decades of his calcified rule, Egypt lacked proper parties, free media or democratic habits. This takes time to develop.

The generals' decision to rush reflects either a lack of vision for Egypt's future, a desire to avoid responsibility for governing a huge and troubled state, or the preference for keeping the status quo minus the old pharaoh. Probably all of the above.

The approach benefits the groups best organized today. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928, and remnants of the old ruling National Democratic Party are the loudest champions of today's referendum and the current timetable. They want elections before democratic forces can organize.

If the military sticks to this calendar, the bulk of power could fall into their hands. The Brotherhood says it won't contest the presidency, but the group will run for parliament and may win a plurality. There they would be well-placed to write the political rules for the new Egypt. One of the amendments up for vote today gives the legislature the power to draw up a new constitution.

Even if free, today's vote is flawed. The amendments were written by a group handpicked by the military that didn't include anyone from an organized political group other than the Muslim Brotherhood. All leading secular democratic figures in Egypt opposed the referendum. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on her first visit to post-Mubarak Cairo this week, missed an opportunity to lend America's voice to the debate. "We don't have an opinion" on the referendum, she said. We should.

Review & Outlook: Egypt's Flawed Transition - WSJ.com



from your ow link-

snip-

Yes or no vote?

Despite the broad enthusiasm for holding a vote, a number of leading political figures, particularly those most closely identified with the Tahrir Square revolt, called for a no vote. The figures include two announced presidential candidates, Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League.

They and other critics said there had not been enough time since Mubarak’s downfall for voters to understand fully what they were deciding on in the referendum. In addition, they said, the military’s accelerated schedule did not allow time for new parties to form and organize their followers. This, they said, gave an unfair advantage to two established parties, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.

As ElBaradei arrived to vote in the Mokattam area, a mob supporting a “yes” vote swarmed his car, smashed its windows and began throwing rocks at him, said a witness, Dina Abou Elsoud, 35. “The crowd was Muslim, saying ‘Vote yes for Islam’ and waving Muslim Brotherhood signs. . . . He didn’t get to vote. He didn’t get to go inside.”

Later, ElBaradei tweeted that he and his family were “attacked by a group of organized thugs” and faulted the police as “irresponsible.”

One of those voting no in Zamalek was Tarek el-Gazzar, a 34-year-old lawyer, who tapped out Facebook updates on his iPad while standing in a three-block line, alerting friends to expect waits of up to two hours. He expressed hope that the large turnout would include a majority of nos.

I think the nuances of this situation float gently over the heads of the 'democracy loving' left. In their enthusiasm to paint a rosy picture to convince themselves that everything is fine, they overlook the elephants in the room. The elephants being that there is no democratic infrastructure in place, that the only real 'opposition' is from the Muslims Brotherhood, and that the population - outside the cities - has no idea what 'democracy' means.

 

[Seawytch]

The world is becoming more democratic.

This trend will continue.

What will Glenn Beck wet his pants about now?

He'll find something. The thing with these "apocalyptic" folks like Beck is that as soon as their dire predictions are proven wrong, they just move on to their next dire prediction. Boring....

 

[tigerbob]

The world is becoming more democratic.

This trend will continue.

What will Glenn Beck wet his pants about now?

I hope you're right, but I think you may be counting your eggs too early. Still a million ways for this to turn out badly.

 

[The T]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

carry it forward to what exactly? all that glitters is not gold.


another view-

The referendum comes five weeks after Mr. Mubarak's fall. Four months later parliamentary elections are due, followed in September by a presidential poll. It's a mad rush. By comparison, South Africa spent four years negotiating the terms of its democratic handover between the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison to its first free elections in 1994.

Many Egyptians called for a steady, transparent and prolonged transition the moment Mubarak left. After three decades of his calcified rule, Egypt lacked proper parties, free media or democratic habits. This takes time to develop.

The generals' decision to rush reflects either a lack of vision for Egypt's future, a desire to avoid responsibility for governing a huge and troubled state, or the preference for keeping the status quo minus the old pharaoh. Probably all of the above.

The approach benefits the groups best organized today. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928, and remnants of the old ruling National Democratic Party are the loudest champions of today's referendum and the current timetable. They want elections before democratic forces can organize.

If the military sticks to this calendar, the bulk of power could fall into their hands. The Brotherhood says it won't contest the presidency, but the group will run for parliament and may win a plurality. There they would be well-placed to write the political rules for the new Egypt. One of the amendments up for vote today gives the legislature the power to draw up a new constitution.

Even if free, today's vote is flawed. The amendments were written by a group handpicked by the military that didn't include anyone from an organized political group other than the Muslim Brotherhood. All leading secular democratic figures in Egypt opposed the referendum. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on her first visit to post-Mubarak Cairo this week, missed an opportunity to lend America's voice to the debate. "We don't have an opinion" on the referendum, she said. We should.

Review & Outlook: Egypt's Flawed Transition - WSJ.com



from your ow link-

snip-

Yes or no vote?

Despite the broad enthusiasm for holding a vote, a number of leading political figures, particularly those most closely identified with the Tahrir Square revolt, called for a no vote. The figures include two announced presidential candidates, Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League.

They and other critics said there had not been enough time since Mubarak’s downfall for voters to understand fully what they were deciding on in the referendum. In addition, they said, the military’s accelerated schedule did not allow time for new parties to form and organize their followers. This, they said, gave an unfair advantage to two established parties, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.

As ElBaradei arrived to vote in the Mokattam area, a mob supporting a “yes” vote swarmed his car, smashed its windows and began throwing rocks at him, said a witness, Dina Abou Elsoud, 35. “The crowd was Muslim, saying ‘Vote yes for Islam’ and waving Muslim Brotherhood signs. . . . He didn’t get to vote. He didn’t get to go inside.”

Later, ElBaradei tweeted that he and his family were “attacked by a group of organized thugs” and faulted the police as “irresponsible.”

One of those voting no in Zamalek was Tarek el-Gazzar, a 34-year-old lawyer, who tapped out Facebook updates on his iPad while standing in a three-block line, alerting friends to expect waits of up to two hours. He expressed hope that the large turnout would include a majority of nos.

I think the nuances of this situation float gently over the heads of the 'democracy loving' left. In their enthusiasm to paint a rosy picture to convince themselves that everything is fine, they overlook the elephants in the room. The elephants being that there is no democratic infrastructure in place, that the only real 'opposition' is from the Muslims Brotherhood, and that the population - outside the cities - has no idea what 'democracy' means.

And couple that with the unrest that has been happening between Muslims and Christians in the country...

 

[Sallow]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

carry it forward to what exactly? all that glitters is not gold.


another view-

The referendum comes five weeks after Mr. Mubarak's fall. Four months later parliamentary elections are due, followed in September by a presidential poll. It's a mad rush. By comparison, South Africa spent four years negotiating the terms of its democratic handover between the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison to its first free elections in 1994.

Many Egyptians called for a steady, transparent and prolonged transition the moment Mubarak left. After three decades of his calcified rule, Egypt lacked proper parties, free media or democratic habits. This takes time to develop.

The generals' decision to rush reflects either a lack of vision for Egypt's future, a desire to avoid responsibility for governing a huge and troubled state, or the preference for keeping the status quo minus the old pharaoh. Probably all of the above.

The approach benefits the groups best organized today. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928, and remnants of the old ruling National Democratic Party are the loudest champions of today's referendum and the current timetable. They want elections before democratic forces can organize.

If the military sticks to this calendar, the bulk of power could fall into their hands. The Brotherhood says it won't contest the presidency, but the group will run for parliament and may win a plurality. There they would be well-placed to write the political rules for the new Egypt. One of the amendments up for vote today gives the legislature the power to draw up a new constitution.

Even if free, today's vote is flawed. The amendments were written by a group handpicked by the military that didn't include anyone from an organized political group other than the Muslim Brotherhood. All leading secular democratic figures in Egypt opposed the referendum. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on her first visit to post-Mubarak Cairo this week, missed an opportunity to lend America's voice to the debate. "We don't have an opinion" on the referendum, she said. We should.

Review & Outlook: Egypt's Flawed Transition - WSJ.com



from your ow link-

snip-

Yes or no vote?

Despite the broad enthusiasm for holding a vote, a number of leading political figures, particularly those most closely identified with the Tahrir Square revolt, called for a no vote. The figures include two announced presidential candidates, Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League.

They and other critics said there had not been enough time since Mubarak’s downfall for voters to understand fully what they were deciding on in the referendum. In addition, they said, the military’s accelerated schedule did not allow time for new parties to form and organize their followers. This, they said, gave an unfair advantage to two established parties, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.

As ElBaradei arrived to vote in the Mokattam area, a mob supporting a “yes” vote swarmed his car, smashed its windows and began throwing rocks at him, said a witness, Dina Abou Elsoud, 35. “The crowd was Muslim, saying ‘Vote yes for Islam’ and waving Muslim Brotherhood signs. . . . He didn’t get to vote. He didn’t get to go inside.”

Later, ElBaradei tweeted that he and his family were “attacked by a group of organized thugs” and faulted the police as “irresponsible.”

One of those voting no in Zamalek was Tarek el-Gazzar, a 34-year-old lawyer, who tapped out Facebook updates on his iPad while standing in a three-block line, alerting friends to expect waits of up to two hours. He expressed hope that the large turnout would include a majority of nos.

I think the nuances of this situation float gently over the heads of the 'democracy loving' left. In their enthusiasm to paint a rosy picture to convince themselves that everything is fine, they overlook the elephants in the room. The elephants being that there is no democratic infrastructure in place, that the only real 'opposition' is from the Muslims Brotherhood, and that the population - outside the cities - has no idea what 'democracy' means.

Actually..no it doesn't. We understand that the world is not a simple place. The "one size fits all; if it ain't broke don't fix it" lockstep mentality is squarely on the right.

Egypt may vote in a bat shit crazy regime bent on taking out Israel. And we should be fully prepared to tell them to go fuck themselves if they do that. But that's their decision and their choice.

America should be dealing with the world on the world's terms. Not imposing it's will.

We are not an Empire. And we should lead by example.

 

[California Girl]

carry it forward to what exactly? all that glitters is not gold.


another view-

The referendum comes five weeks after Mr. Mubarak's fall. Four months later parliamentary elections are due, followed in September by a presidential poll. It's a mad rush. By comparison, South Africa spent four years negotiating the terms of its democratic handover between the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison to its first free elections in 1994.

Many Egyptians called for a steady, transparent and prolonged transition the moment Mubarak left. After three decades of his calcified rule, Egypt lacked proper parties, free media or democratic habits. This takes time to develop.

The generals' decision to rush reflects either a lack of vision for Egypt's future, a desire to avoid responsibility for governing a huge and troubled state, or the preference for keeping the status quo minus the old pharaoh. Probably all of the above.

The approach benefits the groups best organized today. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928, and remnants of the old ruling National Democratic Party are the loudest champions of today's referendum and the current timetable. They want elections before democratic forces can organize.

If the military sticks to this calendar, the bulk of power could fall into their hands. The Brotherhood says it won't contest the presidency, but the group will run for parliament and may win a plurality. There they would be well-placed to write the political rules for the new Egypt. One of the amendments up for vote today gives the legislature the power to draw up a new constitution.

Even if free, today's vote is flawed. The amendments were written by a group handpicked by the military that didn't include anyone from an organized political group other than the Muslim Brotherhood. All leading secular democratic figures in Egypt opposed the referendum. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on her first visit to post-Mubarak Cairo this week, missed an opportunity to lend America's voice to the debate. "We don't have an opinion" on the referendum, she said. We should.

Review & Outlook: Egypt's Flawed Transition - WSJ.com



from your ow link-

snip-

Yes or no vote?

Despite the broad enthusiasm for holding a vote, a number of leading political figures, particularly those most closely identified with the Tahrir Square revolt, called for a no vote. The figures include two announced presidential candidates, Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League.

They and other critics said there had not been enough time since Mubarak’s downfall for voters to understand fully what they were deciding on in the referendum. In addition, they said, the military’s accelerated schedule did not allow time for new parties to form and organize their followers. This, they said, gave an unfair advantage to two established parties, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.

As ElBaradei arrived to vote in the Mokattam area, a mob supporting a “yes” vote swarmed his car, smashed its windows and began throwing rocks at him, said a witness, Dina Abou Elsoud, 35. “The crowd was Muslim, saying ‘Vote yes for Islam’ and waving Muslim Brotherhood signs. . . . He didn’t get to vote. He didn’t get to go inside.”

Later, ElBaradei tweeted that he and his family were “attacked by a group of organized thugs” and faulted the police as “irresponsible.”

One of those voting no in Zamalek was Tarek el-Gazzar, a 34-year-old lawyer, who tapped out Facebook updates on his iPad while standing in a three-block line, alerting friends to expect waits of up to two hours. He expressed hope that the large turnout would include a majority of nos.

I think the nuances of this situation float gently over the heads of the 'democracy loving' left. In their enthusiasm to paint a rosy picture to convince themselves that everything is fine, they overlook the elephants in the room. The elephants being that there is no democratic infrastructure in place, that the only real 'opposition' is from the Muslims Brotherhood, and that the population - outside the cities - has no idea what 'democracy' means.

Actually..no it doesn't. We understand that the world is not a simple place. The "one size fits all; if it ain't broke don't fix it" lockstep mentality is squarely on the right.

Egypt may vote in a bat shit crazy regime bent on taking out Israel. And we should be fully prepared to tell them to go fuck themselves if they do that. But that's their decision and their choice.

America should be dealing with the world on the world's terms. Not imposing it's will.

We are not an Empire. And we should lead by example.

Egypt isn't ready for this kind of step. Gotta ask why who's pulling what strings to get this kind of vote pushed through when the political parties haven't had time to organize themselves. I don't see the US trying to impose it's will.... I see smart people asking smart questions... and gullible fools pretending it's not our business to ask.

You might be prepared to accept another Iran in the world... some of us would prefer a real democracy in Eygpt.... that is, after all, what their citizens died to achieve. Some of us fear that their revolution will be snatched away from them, just like it was in Iran.

 

[Big Fitz]

What's the Over/Under on Islamofascist Al Quaeda loving, Israel hating theocrats getting into power like they did after 'democratic revolutions' happened in Iran in 1978?

 

[Charles_Main]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

A good day for Egypt, lets hope this trend continues.

Where is the recognition from those on the left that this wave of up risings in the Middle east and North Africa can be traced back, at least in part to our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least that was part of the argument for attacking those countries. That if we brought democracy there it would increased the popular demand of more Democracy across the middle east. Seems like now that is happening, and nobody is talking about how Iraq and Afghanistan may have been part of the catalyst.

 

[Trajan]

carry it forward to what exactly? all that glitters is not gold.


another view-

The referendum comes five weeks after Mr. Mubarak's fall. Four months later parliamentary elections are due, followed in September by a presidential poll. It's a mad rush. By comparison, South Africa spent four years negotiating the terms of its democratic handover between the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison to its first free elections in 1994.

Many Egyptians called for a steady, transparent and prolonged transition the moment Mubarak left. After three decades of his calcified rule, Egypt lacked proper parties, free media or democratic habits. This takes time to develop.

The generals' decision to rush reflects either a lack of vision for Egypt's future, a desire to avoid responsibility for governing a huge and troubled state, or the preference for keeping the status quo minus the old pharaoh. Probably all of the above.

The approach benefits the groups best organized today. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928, and remnants of the old ruling National Democratic Party are the loudest champions of today's referendum and the current timetable. They want elections before democratic forces can organize.

If the military sticks to this calendar, the bulk of power could fall into their hands. The Brotherhood says it won't contest the presidency, but the group will run for parliament and may win a plurality. There they would be well-placed to write the political rules for the new Egypt. One of the amendments up for vote today gives the legislature the power to draw up a new constitution.

Even if free, today's vote is flawed. The amendments were written by a group handpicked by the military that didn't include anyone from an organized political group other than the Muslim Brotherhood. All leading secular democratic figures in Egypt opposed the referendum. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, on her first visit to post-Mubarak Cairo this week, missed an opportunity to lend America's voice to the debate. "We don't have an opinion" on the referendum, she said. We should.

Review & Outlook: Egypt's Flawed Transition - WSJ.com



from your ow link-

snip-

Yes or no vote?

Despite the broad enthusiasm for holding a vote, a number of leading political figures, particularly those most closely identified with the Tahrir Square revolt, called for a no vote. The figures include two announced presidential candidates, Mohamed ElBaradei, former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Amr Moussa, secretary-general of the Arab League.

They and other critics said there had not been enough time since Mubarak’s downfall for voters to understand fully what they were deciding on in the referendum. In addition, they said, the military’s accelerated schedule did not allow time for new parties to form and organize their followers. This, they said, gave an unfair advantage to two established parties, the Muslim Brotherhood and Mubarak’s National Democratic Party.

As ElBaradei arrived to vote in the Mokattam area, a mob supporting a “yes” vote swarmed his car, smashed its windows and began throwing rocks at him, said a witness, Dina Abou Elsoud, 35. “The crowd was Muslim, saying ‘Vote yes for Islam’ and waving Muslim Brotherhood signs. . . . He didn’t get to vote. He didn’t get to go inside.”

Later, ElBaradei tweeted that he and his family were “attacked by a group of organized thugs” and faulted the police as “irresponsible.”

One of those voting no in Zamalek was Tarek el-Gazzar, a 34-year-old lawyer, who tapped out Facebook updates on his iPad while standing in a three-block line, alerting friends to expect waits of up to two hours. He expressed hope that the large turnout would include a majority of nos.

I think the nuances of this situation float gently over the heads of the 'democracy loving' left. In their enthusiasm to paint a rosy picture to convince themselves that everything is fine, they overlook the elephants in the room. The elephants being that there is no democratic infrastructure in place, that the only real 'opposition' is from the Muslims Brotherhood, and that the population - outside the cities - has no idea what 'democracy' means.

Actually..no it doesn't. We understand that the world is not a simple place. The "one size fits all; if it ain't broke don't fix it" lockstep mentality is squarely on the right.

what does this have to do with what she said?

Egypt may vote in a bat shit crazy regime bent on taking out Israel. And we should be fully prepared to tell them to go fuck themselves if they do that. But that's their decision and their choice.

America should be dealing with the world on the world's terms. Not imposing it's will.

in light of the last 24 hours you really have some gall posting that...

and be careful what you wish for.

We are not an Empire. And we should lead by example.

whatever.....so hows that example working in Bahrain and Yemen...and Darfur?

 

[Sallow]

Egypt isn't ready for this kind of step. Gotta ask why who's pulling what strings to get this kind of vote pushed through when the political parties haven't had time to organize themselves. I don't see the US trying to impose it's will.... I see smart people asking smart questions... and gullible fools pretending it's not our business to ask.

You might be prepared to accept another Iran in the world... some of us would prefer a real democracy in Eygpt.... that is, after all, what their citizens died to achieve. Some of us fear that their revolution will be snatched away from them, just like it was in Iran.

Who decides what Egypt is ready for? I think that's up to the Egyptians. Their culture is far older then our own. It's been hobbled by colonialism. I think it's high time they grabbed and embraced their own destiny. People are happier and make better decisions when they have a say and a stake in their own governments. I, for one, want Egyptians to feel as proud of their country..as I do of mine.

 

[Trajan]

I think the op's own article contained comments BY Egyptians....have you read the entire piece or just winging it?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Others called for the appointment of a presidential council of technocrats and for the judiciary to write the constitution and guide the transitional period.

POLITICIANS, PARTIES AND GROUPS

-- Presidential candidate Mohamed ElBaradei said the amendments would take Egypt in the "opposite direction" of reform and said he would vote against them.

-- Presidential candidate Amr Moussa, who is secretary-general of the Arab League, rejected the amendments and said writing a new constitution was a priority.

-- The New National Democratic Party, formerly Mubarak's ruling party, backed the amendments.

-- The liberal nationalist Wafd party rejected the amendments, citing reasons such as the failure of the changes to limit the powers of the president.

-- The biggest opposition force in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood, backed the amendments, saying the country needed to start functioning again to prevent army rule from dragging on too long.

-- Salafists, a group of conservative Muslims who were long oppressed by Mubarak, have resurfaced and some have said they believe the amendments are a step in the right direction.

-- Christians make up 10 percent of Egypt's population and some Coptic Christians called for the scrapping of Article 2, which says Islam is the religion of the state and Islamic jurisprudence the main source of legislation. As a result, many Christians are against the changes as not going far enough.

Factbox: Egypt's constitutional referendum | Reuters

 

[Sheldon]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

A good day for Egypt, lets hope this trend continues.

Where is the recognition from those on the left that this wave of up risings in the Middle east and North Africa can be traced back, at least in part to our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least that was part of the argument for attacking those countries. That if we brought democracy there it would increased the popular demand of more Democracy across the middle east. Seems like now that is happening, and nobody is talking about how Iraq and Afghanistan may have been part of the catalyst.

I'm not so sure about Afghanistan, but an argument can be made that what's happened in Iraq has influenced the events in these other ME countries. Although my guess is internal issues that have been under a pressure cooker for the last few decades have played a much larger role. I think the rise in social media has played a role in all this too.

 

[Trajan]

Large numbers of Egyptians streamed into polling places, taking the first step toward moving their revolution from Tahrir (or Liberation) Square into the halls of government. Voters standing in long lines, some waiting uncomplainingly for up to three hours, applauded the promise of an end to the rigged parliamentary and presidential elections under toppled president Hosni Mubarak, which they derided as frauds that produced precooked results.

“Before, we could all just sit at home,” said Khalid Hassan, a 46-year-old window repairman voting in Cairo’s humble Abassiyah neighborhood. “We knew they would just say what they wanted about the results, and our vote had no meaning. I could say no, they would say yes. I could say yes, they would say no.”

The turnout, described as unprecedented by State Information Service Director Ismail Khairat, was estimated by the government’s High Judicial Commission at 60 percent, three times that of the last election. It suggested an eagerness by millions of Egyptians to carry forward the democratic uprising that began Jan. 25 in Tahrir Square and led to Mubarak’s departure Feb. 11.

Whatever the verdict on the proposed amendments, the vote propelled Egypt to the front of the line in a reform movement that has swept through Arab nations across the Middle East over the last three months.

Egyptians swarm polls in first vote since revolution - The Washington Post

A good day for Egypt, lets hope this trend continues.

Where is the recognition from those on the left that this wave of up risings in the Middle east and North Africa can be traced back, at least in part to our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

At least that was part of the argument for attacking those countries. That if we brought democracy there it would increased the popular demand of more Democracy across the middle east. Seems like now that is happening, and nobody is talking about how Iraq and Afghanistan may have been part of the catalyst.

I'm not so sure about Afghanistan, but an argument can be made that what's happened in Iraq has influenced the events in these other ME countries. Although my guess is internal issues that have been under a pressure cooker for the last few decades have played a much larger role. I think the rise in social media has played a role in all this too.

absolutely, the slow but steady ratcheting up of the UN food index, which is highly regressive especially in those African countries played a large part.

The economic structure of their gov.'s in that they cannot create jobs for an ever growing mass of youth also contributed mightily.

 

[LilOlLady]

You should know by now that the voting system means nothing. Bush's election case on point.