Education

[tpahl]

This is in response to a reply in the who is voting for kerry thread. Since it is kind of straying from the original subject i decided to create a new thread.

Another lie.
Department of Education appropriations:

2000 => $38,447,366
2001 => $42,061,403
2002 => $56,177,032
2003 => $63,256,811
2004 => $63,270,657

President's 2005 Budget for Dept. of Ed. => $66,433,424

How quick the GOP changes... Here is part of the GOP's platform from 1996...

"The Federal government has no constitutional authority to be involved in school curricula or to control jobs in the market place. This is why we will abolish the Department of Education."

source:http://www.cato.org/research/articles/gryphon-040211.html

Travis

 

[popefumanchu]

Yet another example of throwing money at a problem and then pleading for more when the problem isn't solved.

If schools actually complied to the No Child Left Behind Act, we would likely see some changes.

Of course, the best way to improve education is to actually take an active role in your own children's learning. Money doesn't solve a thing, as much as liberals like to think it does. Once again, it's good 'ol responsibility.

Parenting... what a concept!

 

[Comrade]

This is in response to a reply in the who is voting for kerry thread. Since it is kind of straying from the original subject i decided to create a new thread.



How quick the GOP changes... Here is part of the GOP's platform from 1996...



source:http://www.cato.org/research/articles/gryphon-040211.html

Travis

All that funding probably explains the lackluster support for Kerry from the traditional block of those government workers in education. I realize this probably helps Bush win his second term but he needs to tone down the domestic spending immediately after.

 

[tpahl]

Yet another example of throwing money at a problem and then pleading for more when the problem isn't solved.

I agree completely. I am shocked that Republicans are not upset at Bush for bragging about increasing the dept of Ed budget by nearly 60%.

If schools actually complied to the No Child Left Behind Act, we would likely see some changes.

That is a huge if. It is kinda like saying if people actually complied with our drug laws, there would be no drug war.

Of course, the best way to improve education is to actually take an active role in your own children's learning. Money doesn't solve a thing, as much as liberals like to think it does. Once again, it's good 'ol responsibility.

Yep. Unfortunately the current adminstration seems to think the best way is to through more money and pass more laws.

Badnarik let the people keep their money and elliminate laws. The No Child left Behind act is unconstitutional. The GOP understand this not more than 8 years ago!

Parenting... what a concept![/QUOTE]

 

[Hobbit]

No Child Left Behind works when used. The Georgia Department of Education has undergone some major changes, and for the better. They don't allow teaching out of area except for a VERY short list of classes, and new and tougher tests are required to get certified to teach certain subjects. Basically, few teachers are being fired, but they're being forced to stick with what they're good at, which is a good thing.

 

[tpahl]

All that funding probably explains the lackluster support for Kerry from the traditional block of those government workers in education. I realize this probably helps Bush win his second term but he needs to tone down the domestic spending immediately after.

It goes far beyond toning it down. I want to see a smaller federal government. Not just a smaller rate of increase.


Travis

 

[tpahl]

No Child Left Behind works when used. The Georgia Department of Education has undergone some major changes, and for the better. They don't allow teaching out of area except for a VERY short list of classes, and new and tougher tests are required to get certified to teach certain subjects. Basically, few teachers are being fired, but they're being forced to stick with what they're good at, which is a good thing.

The program is unconstititional.

The fact that it has a few success stories does not change that.

Travis

 

[Comrade]

It goes far beyond toning it down. I want to see a smaller federal government. Not just a smaller rate of increase.


Travis

Absolutely.

 

[Comrade]

The program is unconstititional.

The fact that it has a few success stories does not change that.

Travis

I'm curious, how so is it unconstitutional?

 

[Hobbit]

The program is unconstititional.

The fact that it has a few success stories does not change that.

Travis

Point me out article and section that says the Federal Government has no authority over education (where's NewGuy when I need him?), and it's a good program. The education system is primarily liberal...so liberal, in fact, that students learn more about how to like themselves than they learn to add. I'm disgusted with the state of the school system and I'm glad someone out there has the desire to make it better. Here are a few (personal) examples of why education needs major reform.

- If a student hit another student at the school I went to from 7-10th grades, both students got punished for fighting. This only taught students to return violence in turn, rather than trying to solve the conflict peacefully (something I usually tried and failed to do).

- I never did convince my 9th grade *honors* physical science teacher that a light year was a measure of distance.

- Two of my teachers (married to each other) had a daughter in my grade. I was beating her in the valdevictorian competition, so they took it upon themselves to try to lower my GPA, but they couldn't do it without getting fired. They sure did try, though.

- Some of my teachers knew less about the subject than I did, and I learned more from my parents, my textbook, and web sites than I could've learned in 3 times the time from those teachers.

- One of my English teachers in high school hated me and tried to fail me because I was a WASP (white anglo-saxon protestant) whose family was upper middle class. Several students had to get grade appeals from her because she would automatically fail any student writing about the evils of affirmative action, that the civil rights movement had gone too far, or how the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery.

- One of my college professors went waaaay too fast during the first few weeks and issued us a test a month ahead of the syllabus. The class average was 49%. He blamed it on the "lazy" students who wouldn't pay attention in his class and gave no curves.

- At my middle school, which I was only at for one year (just got finished in time for my 8th grade year...joy! (sarcasm)), they eliminated all honors classes, so my classes had to go so slow that the kids who didn't speak English could keep up, and that includes my English class.

Education needs major reform and the states aren't doing it. Who will?

 

[tpahl]

I'm curious, how so is it unconstitutional?

No where in the constitution does it grant the federal government the power to do anything regarding education. The GOP used to push for the abolition of the dept of Ed up until 1996 for this very reason.

Travis

 

[tpahl]

Point me out article and section that says the Federal Government has no authority over education (where's NewGuy when I need him?), and it's a good program.

You are asking where it says the feds do not have a power. That is not how the constitution is set up. The constiution is set up to grant LIMITED powers and all others are reserved to the states. So in order to say that the deptarment of education is constitutional, YOU would have to show me where that power is granted by the constitution.

[qoute]The education system is primarily liberal...so liberal, in fact, that students learn more about how to like themselves than they learn to add. I'm disgusted with the state of the school system and I'm glad someone out there has the desire to make it better. [/quote]

I agree that the eduation system needs serious work. but like any industry, it is best left to a free market. Anytime you give the government the power over something, you should not be surprised when it is not run the way you like. It rarely will be unless you can convince 50% of the people to agree with you on what is the best solution. When it is in a free market, all you need to do is find one of the hundreds of choices that are offered that you agree with.

Travis

 

[Merlin1047]

How quick the GOP changes... Here is part of the GOP's platform from 1996...

Let's see if I understand your complaint correctly. You are criticizing Pres. Bush for acting too much like a liberal?

If that's your bitch, we agree.

 

[tpahl]

Let's see if I understand your complaint correctly. You are criticizing Pres. Bush for acting too much like a liberal?

If that's your bitch, we agree.

I would say it goes further than that. There is very little difference at all between him and a liberal. He has moved the GOP way too far from its limited government base. So far that it does not deserve a vote from anyone who cherishes small government. The best chance to save the GOP is oddly enough for Bush to lose this election because he was lost his small government supporters. Then MAYBE the GOP would not take such votes for granted anymore.

The Dept of Ed. is just ne such example of him spending like a liberal. There are many others.

Travis