Education Myths

Mr.Conley said:
That's very sad.

Have you ever taught an AP class?


hmhmhm... New Orleans has the same deal... only with the police.

I haven't, I'm currently teaching middle school. I did get to use some of the strategies learned a few years back, when teaching a night class on the Constitution for 'at risk' students in high school. The kids responded well to the emphasis on the individual being responsible for their learning, once it was explained what that entailed.
 
jasendorf said:
Vouchers and charter schools are nothing more than an attempt to lower the cost of education on the backs of teachers.
Nonsense. It is an attempt to break the teacher's union controlled, government enforced, coercive monopoly on education.

jasendorf said:
They give nominal, under-qualified teachers a place to be for less money while enjoying a more pleasant work environment devoid of major behavioral problems and challenging students.
Nonsense. They provide a opportunity for better qualified, but not establishment entrenched, non-union teachers to work in an otherwise "closed-shop" industry.

jasendorf said:
In turn, the for-profit schools then tout that they "educate for less" putting public school teachers on the spot over being paid an acceptable salary for work that isn't the same as that done by voucher and charter school teachers.
Correct. They work smarter and more effectively for less.

jasendorf said:
In this race of who will work for the least, the children suffer as education becomes a less and less desireable profession due to the lack of equitable pay for the amount of education and certification mandated from on-high to even be part of the profession (well, except in voucher and charter schools where no mandated requirements exist).
Public school teachers are paid more than equitably for their efforts--it is the rare instance that this is not true, and those instances are a direct result of teacher's union controlled, government enforced, coercive monopoly on education.

jasendorf said:
I think all teachers deserve better than the voucher and charter system which is designed to divide teachers into those who want a pleasant work environment for low pay or a frustrating environment for what is soon to be lower pay.
Oh, indeed they do! They deserve a free-market system.

jasendorf said:
Cheap Labor Republicans. They come in every profession.
Slave labor socialists come in every profession too.

jasendorf said:
5stringJeff said:
Just because there are challenges in public schools doesn't mean you punish those teachers who attempt to overcome them by undermining their attempts and further destroy the chances of those kids with bad parents chances at a good education.
And just because there are challenges in public schools doesn't mean you punish kids whose parents want to get them a better education by limiting their choices in education.
I must agree 5stringJeff, and may I add that we shouldn't punish those teachers who attempt to overcome the challenges in public schools by blocking every attempt to weaken the intellectually and morally repugnant, statist root causes of those challenges.

jasendorf said:
I say yes to vouchers and charters that don't destroy the education system AS A WHOLE.
Yet you are willing to defend, to the bitter end, the current system of bullshit entitlements, governemnt indoctrination, abridgment of rights, intellectual stagnation, educational failure, and their foundational principle, that is destroying the education system as a whole.

jasendorf said:
Are vouchers and charters, as they exist right now, good for individuals? Definitely. Are they good for our country? No.
Logically self contradictory--go to the back of the class.

jasendorf said:
The end won't be better education for our country... it'll mean a greater disparity between the classes resulting in greater resentment between those classes.
Nonsense. This disparity in classes derives from the granting of priviledges not founded on merit. Without these government established and enforced entitlements, the disparity will be only between the intelligent, and the idiots--a disparity that even your most feverish socialist wet-dream of full command and control of national indoctrination can't bridge.

jasendorf said:
Once the vouchers and charters have destroyed public education, the worst for-profit schools will be the only schools which accept only the voucher and the best will be voucher + $$$$$. There will be no difference except that someone will be making big bucks at taxpayers' expense.
"Someone...making big bucks at taxpayers' expense" is what your tenured, and exempt from any meaningful accountability, union teacher is doing right now. Your real compliant seems to be that the state enforced teacher's compensation entitlement is being threatened--not so much the quality of education.

jasendorf said:
So, your solution is "let the kids with ignorant parents rot"?
I don't know if that's Kathianne's solution (and I suspect that it's not), but mine is let the idiot kids of ignorant parents rot. There will always be the dumb progeny of dumb parents, and as long as there is, there will be a head of lettuce they can pick, a ditch they can fill in. We can afford to let them go, we can't afford to pretend that they can be more than they can imagine--even if we can imagine more for them.

jasendorf said:
My "guess about destroying" is simple. Once the voucher and charter schools, or more accurately... the companies which own these for-profit schools, have hoodwinked enough people into believing that they are doing the same job as the public schools for "half the cost" the voters will eventually attempt to disband public education for a government-funded private system.
How would this "hoodwinking" work? Would they have to do as good a job, a little better maybe? That would be bad? How long would they have to continue this ruse? Until the public schools are gone? What of their competitors? You know, those other private schools down the street? Perhaps they'd continue their "ruse" until they out performed them too. But those other private schools would also be "hoodwinking" the public with superior education too, now wouldn't they? They would also have to provide better educations than the public school, and the competing private schools, until that glorious day in the far, far distant future that they can turn finally around and stop doing their jobs. This is your educational doomsday scenario? If it is, I hope it happens real soon.

jasendorf said:
Problem is, they aren't doing the same job as public schools... public schools are doing a job infinitely more difficult than that of voucher and charter schools.
They are doing the same job, they are doing it in an infinitely more difficult manner that is of their own devising.

jasendorf said:
A job which mandates they teach educate every child, regardless of their challenges (or advantages for that matter), to a level determined by a state-issued test. Voucher and charter schools have no such mandate. Hence, they are not doing the same job... but the distinction will be lost in the lobbying and PR by the for-profit companies running these schools.

Only when it is too late to get public education back will people realize that unless someone challenges the current "we do 'it' for less" lie.
The distinction will not be lost.

The teachers, through their teacher's union, and with governmental authoritarian complicity, want tenure, excellent health insurance, tuition reimbursement, 6 hour work days, half the year off, etc..., and those same teachers want their compensation based on a vote, rather than merit. Stop crying over the cost.

Teachers who must earn their money, rather than collect fees a gunpoint, will produce better educations, and it will cost less. The distinction will be celebrated.
 
GotZoom said:
Bottom line El Dorfo....if the school your son had to go to did not meet your requirements, are you telling me you wouldn't consider a private school?


*insert cricket sounds*
 
Dorf: For the 503rd time, 2 + 2 = 4. I promise.
Drool in School

"A parent" intentionally used as singular antecedent to the plural "their" is just as illogical as 2 + 2 = 5, but the Illiterate Language Lords have successfully hidden that proof of how our minds are being numbed from an early age and our mental growth stunted.
 

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