Economy continuing to collapse : trucking volume is collapsing and will be going down

[georgephillip]

Tens of thousands of low-income workers lost their jobs Thursday as a stimulus-subsidized employment program came to an end.

About a quarter of a million people in 37 states were placed in short-term jobs thanks to a $5 billion boost to the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. States used about $1 billion to provide subsidized employment, with the remaining funds going to cash grants, food programs, housing assistance and other aid.....

Tens of thousands lose stimulus-subsidized jobs - Yahoo! Finance

Do you believe America's unemployment problem is structural and can NOT be fixed anytime soon?

"Claims that there has been a huge jump in structural unemployment — that is, unemployment that can’t be cured by increasing aggregate demand — are playing a large role in the argument that we should basically do nothing in the face of a terrible economy.

"No need for the Fed to do more; no need for more fiscal stimulus — hey, it’s all about defective labor markets, and we should work on structural reform, one of these days. And don’t expect improvement for years to come.

"Structural unemployment is invoked by Fed presidents who want to raise rates, not cut them, by economists who want austerity now now now, and in general by almost everyone in the pain caucus."

Who Will Speak for the Rich?

 

[Neubarth]

Until we bring the jobs back to America, we will have structured unemployment and massive poverty.

We need to create an independent economic zone in North America were we produce what we need and buy what we produce to the exclusion of the other countries and regions of the world. "America First" should be our rallying cry. America First should be the name of our new political party. I am a candidate.

 

[KissMy]

Until we bring the jobs back to America, we will have structured unemployment and massive poverty.

We need to create an independent economic zone in North America were we produce what we need and buy what we produce to the exclusion of the other countries and regions of the world. "America First" should be our rallying cry. America First should be the name of our new political party. I am a candidate.

It would be easier to let them have the dirty low wage manufacturing jobs & fine the crap out of them for polluting, faulty products & human rights violations while we profit by making them change their ways. We can have the higher paying jobs here.

 

[georgephillip]

Until we bring the jobs back to America, we will have structured unemployment and massive poverty.

We need to create an independent economic zone in North America were we produce what we need and buy what we produce to the exclusion of the other countries and regions of the world. "America First" should be our rallying cry. America First should be the name of our new political party. I am a candidate.

Are Mexicans and Canadians Americans?

 

[fyrenza]

I believe they are GOING to be, once we combine the countries and become the North American Union or United States of North America.

 

[georgephillip]

An economic alliance between the three nations that didn't permit labor the same freedom of movement as capital seems likely to fail.

Do you think "Open Borders" would ever fly politically in the US?

 

[KissMy]

People aren't buying anything. Republicans have moved all the jobs to China.

That is such Bull Shit !!!

CNN Money: Clinton pushes open trade

President Clinton pledged Saturday to continue his push to open up new trade markets, calling such policies the only way to ensure the world's poorest nations will share in the rising global wealth. In a highly anticipated speech to more than 1,000 international business, economic and political leaders gathered at the World Economic Forum, Clinton also attempted to enlist the business community's support in helping secure a spot for China in the World Trade Organization. Clinton's speech marked the first time an incumbent U.S. president visited the forum in the small resort community in the Swiss Alps. Less than three hours after his speech ended, more than 1,000 protestors took to the streets, some smashing windows and injuring a handful of police stationed there to help keep the peace.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1tHV_fztR4"]NAFTA: Ross Perot and Al Gore[/ame]

 

[william the wie]

OK I held off on posting in this thread until I had something to say. A major problem with current logistics patterns is that the least cost route to final destination from China is delivery to the east/gulf coast and transfer to river barge. The US is the richest nation in the world because the Mississippi drainage system covers a larger fraction of the world's land surface than any other in terms of barge navigable miles. So eventually the shipping patterns will change and truck mileage will drop tremendously.

How much of this has already happened?

And combined barge/rail traffic has done what lately?

 

[georgephillip]

Do you believe it's possible to substitute high-speed rail freight lines for large bodies of navigable water; thereby, opening up vast regions of the US interior to industrialization?

 

[loosecannon]

what kind of industry? The Mississippi mainly serves agriculture and mining.

 

[Mad Scientist]

5 Star Thread! Would read again.

 

[william the wie]

what kind of industry? The Mississippi mainly serves agriculture and mining.

Like Pittsburgh which is part of the Mississippi drainage basin? (This list can go on but pretty much every major city in the US west of the Rockies and more than 200 miles from the coast became a major city due to its access to Mississippi/Great Lakes barge system. Also many cites that do not meet these requirements such as Rochester NY that used to meet this requirement are in decline because they no longer meet the requirement for low cost barge traffic.)

 

[william the wie]

Do you believe it's possible to substitute high-speed rail freight lines for large bodies of navigable water; thereby, opening up vast regions of the US interior to industrialization?

I doubt it but high speed rail could increase labor mobility. At the moment high speed rail is still evolving and locking in on a transitional form of technology is a hugely expensive error.

 

[loosecannon]

Do you believe it's possible to substitute high-speed rail freight lines for large bodies of navigable water; thereby, opening up vast regions of the US interior to industrialization?

I doubt it but high speed rail could increase labor mobility. At the moment high speed rail is still evolving and locking in on a transitional form of technology is a hugely expensive error.

High speed rail was good enough for Tokyo, Kyoto and Yokahama in the middle 60's. Trains traveled at 180 mph then.

I don't think it is really such a big risk, the mistake people make is trying to adapt high speed rail to meet existing traffic patterns instead of building it so "they will come". For example you could build a high speed rail line from North Bend WA to Moses lake WA ( a 100 mile long corridor thru the wilderness) with virtually no problems with easements, no traffic to work around, existing freeway access, no expensive property to condemn, no resistance and you could pay for it just by auctioning every other square block along it's path after the right of way was secured at current market value.

People would move to the rail line and away from the city. Why? because businesses would locate along the length of the rail and you would be able to do virtually everything just by hopping on the rail and sitting a few and watching TV or reading and then getting off. Movies, lawyers, shopping, schools, everything would be there except gas stations.

The whole end point scheme you started with would eventually become irrelevant as the rail line itself would become a kind of linear city.

And it would generate tremendous revenues via leases on railside properties retained (every other sq block for 100 miles).

What doesn't work in the US is to pick a highly trafficked route thru a densely populated, developed area and trying to insert a high speed rail into the middle of it. Just ask LA, SF and Palo Alto!

Americans love the auto, that's why rail, high speed or otherwise, never really catches on in the US. Our cities are designed to use autos.

If you want high speed rail as the commuter transpo platform you have to build the rail and let the cities design themselves around it. Pick good land that is not yet ready for prime time, build it and they will come.

 

[uscitizen]

Portland did fine at installing a passenger rail system.

 

[loosecannon]

a "subway" system. Those work because the costs of construction are offset by the immense pop density of cities.

That isn't high speed rail which by design is intended to bridge population centers, not be confined within them.

 

[william the wie]

High speed rail needs to be much lower cost to make sense for the US. The British Isles would fit into Montana with room to spare. CA has such sparse population relative to the Far East or Western Europe that it isn't funny. The wrong solution for current US problems

 

[loosecannon]

High speed rail needs to be much lower cost to make sense for the US. The British Isles would fit into Montana with room to spare. CA has such sparse population relative to the Far East or Western Europe that it isn't funny. The wrong solution for current US problems

It's costs are directly proportional to the density of the population in which the system is being built. It already makes sense if you build it in undeveloped territory or as a subway in highly developed inner cities.

It just can't compete with the auto (or the bus lines) bridging suburbia with the inner city or as a pop center to pop center alternative to commuter flights, airline travel and again the auto.

It could, but not if it doesn't exist. Thank the auto and oil companies for that!

 

[georgephillip]

Do you believe it's possible to substitute high-speed rail freight lines for large bodies of navigable water; thereby, opening up vast regions of the US interior to industrialization?

I doubt it but high speed rail could increase labor mobility. At the moment high speed rail is still evolving and locking in on a transitional form of technology is a hugely expensive error.

What if the financing does NOT come from Wall Street?

In 1919 the State of North Dakota began doing business as the State Bank of North Dakota. You are obviously far more knowledgeable about infrastructure than I am, so I'll just mention that state banks can offer mortgages at 2% interest and cap credit cards at 6% levels.

Could not fifty State Banks modeled on North Dakota finance high speed rail more efficiently than Wall Street?

 

[uscitizen]

High speed rail needs to be much lower cost to make sense for the US. The British Isles would fit into Montana with room to spare. CA has such sparse population relative to the Far East or Western Europe that it isn't funny. The wrong solution for current US problems

It's costs are directly proportional to the density of the population in which the system is being built. It already makes sense if you build it in undeveloped territory or as a subway in highly developed inner cities.

It just can't compete with the auto (or the bus lines) bridging suburbia with the inner city or as a pop center to pop center alternative to commuter flights, airline travel and again the auto.

It could, but not if it doesn't exist. Thank the auto and oil companies for that!

Yep for those not aware the auto and oil companies bought up trolley and other mass transit systems and shut them down so they could sell more cars and gas.