Economics

[Truthmatters]

I think he may have just pulled into the driveway of that home.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I have done my research thank you, and it's the primary reason I am not voting for Obama nor am I supporting McCain. I am not just talking about a reduction in pork barrel spending, I'm talking about a real reduction in the deficit in which you and I and everyone else pay's interest on. The fact is that this government is in a position when it funds any program now, it must borrow money to do so. When any program that advocates increasing spending for a program without reducing that deficit, i.e. the recent "bailout" 700 billion, or Barack Obama's agenda an additional 1 Trillion, or John McCains 860 billion in additional spending. This nation is put in a situation where the middle class even with tax cuts pay more for goods and services, because the power of the dollar they have in their hand is lowered. Why because it's going to pay other nations and interest on that borrowed money funding that very same tax cut. As for your assumption on a cost savings, when we eventually pull out Iraq that too is a false assumption in the near term. A. Barack Obama himself has indicated that several brigades that are now deployed in Iraq will be re-deployed to Afghanistan. B. The near term withdrawl of Iraq using the Obama 16 month formula will mean that by the fall of 2011 US forces will have been withdrawn from Iraq. , by that time the FY 2012 budget would have already been submitted to congress. So you are looking at FY2013 before any real cost savings are realized for a pull out of Iraq. What I advocate Colorado, is actually one of two things, if the cry from the majority of Americans is such that they need a tax cut to fund all this then so be it. However, then do it in such a manner as to apply those tax cuts to every taxpayer and not just selected taxpayers and also cut the size of the Federal Government while doing so. Another formula I would consider, is if you intend to raise taxes then raise them for all taxpayers, and cut the size of the Federal government and pay down the deficit. the fact is it is not an issue of someone having no compassion, we IMHO have an obligation to help Seniors, and those that are unable to help themselves as well as those that gave of themselves to this nation. This nation though was built on the principles of self reliance, and personal responsibility and not envy for our neighbors goods or scorn for them. When we as a nation need to realize that those principles still apply today and get back to them, and hold those that represent us to ethical standards, and those in the business world to ethical standards then IMO the Middle Class will see even more opportunities open up. Ultimately though, it up to us to make our own and not have to rely on others to make them for us.

I concede your point on Iraq.

I will not, however, be convinced that there are millions of Americans who are lazy, mooching leeches who wait patiently lying on their couches watching tv waiting to vote Democrat every two or four years so they can get their government hand out. C'mon! When have Americans ever shown that that is how they are? And the progressive tax has existed for over a century and is shown to work because: A) the wealthy elite and corporations benefit most from government agencies and B) the wealthy elite and corporations benefit most from tax loopholes.

Republicans have historically reduced the Federal Government in these ways: education, the VA, financial aid (both college and personal). They have also fought sound environmental policies, civil rights, progressive social thinking (equal rights for homosexuals), women's suffrage, social security and medicare (taking care of the elderly - something this country notoriously does not do well), and many other social programs that help the people who have less to have, at least, stability and security. However, Republicans give no bid contracts to Halliburton, allow corporate fraud (Halliburton's millions of dallars in over stated invoices), protect oil and gas subsidies when they make record profits (read the paper today), and, all around, protect the wealthy and the corporations. I can not support the Republicans, and although I am not a Democrat, I will vote Democrat to vote AGAINST Republicans.

Who do you support, Navy, if neither Obama nor McCain?

 

[Truthmatters]

republicans RAISE the debt by larger amounts than Democrats.

It Is just the facts.

 

[Truthmatters]

United Stated National Debt


Reagan , bush , bush all raised the debt by larger amounts then Clinton and Carter.

Clinton and the 1993 congress( dem controled) pasted the BRA 1993 without one single R vote.

It has been credited by the CBO and the GAO for the majority of the 1990s surpluses.

 

[Navy1960]

I concede your point on Iraq.

I will not, however, be convinced that there are millions of Americans who are lazy, mooching leeches who wait patiently lying on their couches watching tv waiting to vote Democrat every two or four years so they can get their government hand out. C'mon! When have Americans ever shown that that is how they are? And the progressive tax has existed for over a century and is shown to work because: A) the wealthy elite and corporations benefit most from government agencies and B) the wealthy elite and corporations benefit most from tax loopholes.

Republicans have historically reduced the Federal Government in these ways: education, the VA, financial aid (both college and personal). They have also fought sound environmental policies, civil rights, progressive social thinking (equal rights for homosexuals), women's suffrage, social security and medicare (taking care of the elderly - something this country notoriously does not do well), and many other social programs that help the people who have less to have, at least, stability and security. However, Republicans give no bid contracts to Halliburton, allow corporate fraud (Halliburton's millions of dallars in over stated invoices), protect oil and gas subsidies when they make record profits (read the paper today), and, all around, protect the wealthy and the corporations. I can not support the Republicans, and although I am not a Democrat, I will vote Democrat to vote AGAINST Republicans.

Who do you support, Navy, if neither Obama nor McCain?

Well first let me say this, if someone is well able to do for themselves but makes a choice not to and then expects those around them to do for them, I have very little sympathy for them. I do however know that the people that manage their companies and do so with little regard for those that work for them and the nation they call home, those I have little sympathy for as well. In answer to your presidential question, frankly, I don't see a qualified candidate on this years ballot IMO. Further, I believe that John McCain and Barack Obama represent as bad a choice for president as did Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. So I have decided to write-in a candidate, perhaps, Trent Franks, but I will instead concentrate on the congressional elections.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well first let me say this, if someone is well able to do for themselves but makes a choice not to and then expects those around them to do for them, I have very little sympathy for them. I do however know that the people that manage their companies and do so with little regard for those that work for them and the nation they call home, those I have little sympathy for as well. In answer to your presidential question, frankly, I don't see a qualified candidate on this years ballot IMO. Further, I believe that John McCain and Barack Obama represent as bad a choice for president as did Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. So I have decided to write-in a candidate, perhaps, Trent Franks, but I will instead concentrate on the congressional elections.

I'm sorry to hear that. A write-in is a wasted vote, but it's your right.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Well first let me say this, if someone is well able to do for themselves but makes a choice not to and then expects those around them to do for them, I have very little sympathy for them. I do however know that the people that manage their companies and do so with little regard for those that work for them and the nation they call home, those I have little sympathy for as well. In answer to your presidential question, frankly, I don't see a qualified candidate on this years ballot IMO. Further, I believe that John McCain and Barack Obama represent as bad a choice for president as did Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. So I have decided to write-in a candidate, perhaps, Trent Franks, but I will instead concentrate on the congressional elections.

No one wants people to take from them for undeserved reasons. I don't think liberals want to give lazy people money so they won't work. Clinton's welfare reforms have shown us that welfare does A LOT to help get people off welfare and into jobs. However, there are some, very few, who do live on welfare. Oh well, it sucks but at least the people who deserve help get it. And those programs will work better if they are: a) better funded and/or, b) revamped to tackle the problem differently and more effectively. I think that Republican propaganda has made it seem as though liberals hate the rich, envy them, and want to punish them for being wealthy and that we just want to be lazy and take from others to do so. Its really misleading and untrue. We just want to make a fairer playing ground so that middle class people have the opportunities that wealthy people have. Not because we think its unfair that wealthy people have more and better opportunities but because the wealthy have advantages that hinder the middle classes from having opportunities.

I'm glad to be able to communicate with someone who can articulately discuss their opinions and state their arguments without insults even if we don't agree. Thanks Navy.

 

[Navy1960]

I'm sorry to hear that. A write-in is a wasted vote, but it's your right.

You know Political, Respectfully, I have never seen any vote I have ever made as wasted even if the person did not win the office they ran for. The reason is very very simple, in my mind an election is more than just winners and losers it is about validation and adding my voice. Each and everytime I vote I validate every person who ever made a sacrifice in the name of Freedom and Liberty with the pull of a lever. What all those who built and fought for this nation to give me the right exercise, is something worth validating no matter who I vote for. When I vote I also lend my voice to the process by which we select the people that represent us. Perhaps my choice reflects my desire for the person who best represents me, but still my voice is added. IMHO there have been many in the election process for many years that boil it down to a contest between two parties much like a football game or basketball game, where my team wins and yours loses. Personally I believe if more people exercised the right and yes privledge given to them by millions of Americans past, to vote as they saw fit, then we would all end up with people in congress and the White House that best represent those values and ethics that are American.

 

[tymebeta]

United Stated National Debt


Reagan , bush , bush all raised the debt by larger amounts then Clinton and Carter.

Clinton and the 1993 congress( dem controled) pasted the BRA 1993 without one single R vote.

Hey, I'm perfectly fine with running up my credit card debt, claiming bankruptcy, and losing my house. I won't have to pay for it when I leave. Jokes on you next generation!

 

[Toro]

If you think its simple, mdj, you might want to pop down to your local college and take an econ 101 class.

But since you brought up economics

Economists for Obama

 

[mdjgirl7]

simple economics says that in the economic struggles we are in now tax hikes HAVE to happen, its inevitable,Obama is at least being open and honest with the public and saying I will raise taxes....on the wealthiest Americans that have gotten huge breaks over the last 8 years of Bush/Cheney. McCain saying that he wont raise taxes at all but pay for all these programs he is planning is ludicris! either he is a complete moron and knows nothing about economics or he is lying just to get elected, I say IF he wins he will be Bush senior all over again...remember the famous "Read my lips...NO new taxes"

OK lets just say we play it your way. Obama raises the taxes on the rich. Yep the rich can pay for EVERYTHING yeahhhh we would all be for that. But if I were rich I would be thinking huh how and I going to get my money back. Well I could do a few layoffs that would drop my overhead. Maybe I can raise my prices in some creative ways kinda like what the airlines have done. You know pay extra for carry on luggage and pay for peanuts now. So you may get a tax cut but you ARE going to hand it over to the rich. So Obama can just save a extra step and tax everyone and quit tiring to sugar coat it. You can dress up a pig and it is still a pig.

 

[mdjgirl7]

How is Mccain going to create jobs, please tell me.

Clean coal technology. Drill baby drill. Windmill placement. Green technology. Small business might not lay off and keep lots of people working by not jacking up their taxes.

 

[9 Volt]

Clean coal technology. Drill baby drill. Windmill placement. Green technology. Small business might not lay off and keep lots of people working by not jacking up their taxes.

Wow. Clean coal technology? Are you serious? Drilling holes in the ground to sequester coal smoke isn't going to save our economy...and small business aren't in trouble because of a threat to raise taxes on five percent of them. They're in trouble because their customer bases don't have money to spend, or have seriously tightened their spending. It's just the beginning. This is a serious economic disaster on a global scale. Small businesses are the least of our worries dear. They'll be the first to die off. If the credit markets don't recover, we're in much bigger trouble.

 

[mdjgirl7]

Wow. Clean coal technology? Are you serious? Drilling holes in the ground to sequester coal smoke isn't going to save our economy...and small business aren't in trouble because of a threat to raise taxes on five percent of them. They're in trouble because their customer bases don't have money to spend, or have seriously tightened their spending. It's just the beginning. This is a serious economic disaster on a global scale. Small businesses are the least of our worries dear. They'll be the first to die off. If the credit markets don't recover, we're in much bigger trouble.

Duh yes we all know how serious it is. BTW I am a small business owner.I do not borrow from the bank to run my business but if Obama raises my taxes it could go bye bye. We already pay 35% and that is a struggle. That 35% does not leave a lot of wiggle room.

The question posed to me was how was McCain going to create jobs. I only listed a few ways he can make that happen.

Personally I do not think that McCain or Obama are going to wave some magic wand and make this all better. We are going to suffer either way. In the mean time we do not need Obama jacking up anybodies taxes and spreading the wealth. Obama is a idiot. We do not need Obama cutting our defense fund by 25% while we are in a war. There's our sign he's a idiot.

We need able bodied people to work not get a free ride. I cannot believe on this board people are saying how they just don't believe their are a lot of people who want a free ride. Really I can't believe their naivety. I see it everyday. I have known people who were experts at it. They know just what to say and how to act to get that free check. They know if they keep popping out babies they get more free money.

Nobody really points this out because it is not "politically correct" They might be needy. No they are not they are users. Now before anybody jumps me of course I want to help the truly disabled and children who need support but these slackers I say let them starve if they are to lazy to get a job tuff nuts. I work and IMO nobody is above working unless you are truly disabled.

McCain also said we can stop giving money away to countries that don't like us very much yes I agree with that to. Yes again before some lib gets their feelings hurt no I do not want children to starve to death But I am sure we can cut back on some of our give aways.

These are JUST A FEW ideas not ALL IDEAS.


Obama likes to pretend he cares about us yet he does not lift a finger to help his own brother who lives in poverty or his Aunt who lives illegally here in the good OLE USA. His Aunt is also living below poverty level.
Yep he is generous with other people's money. Obama at the very least could have offered to sponsor his Aunt so she could have become a legal citizen.
He knew good and well she was here illegally he some how just overlooked that. No it does not make it right just because we have other illegals 2 wrongs do not make a right.

If Obama has no compassion for his own family what makes the libs think he will have compassion for the middle class or main street the way he puts it. Is it by his actions? Clearly not. It is by his words. I am just can't believe so many are led astray just by a good speaker. His record proves over and over he is not generous.

Obama's very own district in Chicago is a freaking slum. If he cannot help them he surely cannot help us. Let me show you what I mean.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP-YoB5mnZs]YouTube - Obama's forgotten people[/ame]

Obama's favorite answer is oh I just did not know. Like with his racist pastor he went to his church with for 20 years. Obama just did not know that. The media picked it up in 2 weeks. Wow a Harvard graduate just did not know that or is he a liar?

Things like this might not be important to you but when I know someone has told me a lie. I am suspicious of them until they show me something totally different. That is why I will NOT be voting for Obama he is a liar and is record shows it.

 

[9 Volt]

Duh yes we all know how serious it is. BTW I am a small business owner.I do not borrow from the bank to run my business but if Obama raises my taxes it could go bye bye. We already pay 35% and that is a struggle. That 35% does not leave a lot of wiggle room.

The question posed to me was how was McCain going to create jobs. I only listed a few ways he can make that happen.

Personally I do not think that McCain or Obama are going to wave some magic wand and make this all better. We are going to suffer either way. In the mean time we do not need Obama jacking up anybodies taxes and spreading the wealth. Obama is a idiot. We do not need Obama cutting our defense fund by 25% while we are in a war. There's our sign he's a idiot.

We need able bodied people to work not get a free ride. I cannot believe on this board people are saying how they just don't believe their are a lot of people who want a free ride. Really I can't believe their naivety. I see it everyday. I have known people who were experts at it. They know just what to say and how to act to get that free check. They know if they keep popping out babies they get more free money.

Nobody really points this out because it is not "politically correct" They might be needy. No they are not they are users. Now before anybody jumps me of course I want to help the truly disabled and children who need support but these slackers I say let them starve if they are to lazy to get a job tuff nuts. I work and IMO nobody is above working unless you are truly disabled.

McCain also said we can stop giving money away to countries that don't like us very much yes I agree with that to. Yes again before some lib gets their feelings hurt no I do not want children to starve to death But I am sure we can cut back on some of our give aways.

These are JUST A FEW ideas not ALL IDEAS.


Obama likes to pretend he cares about us yet he does not lift a finger to help his own brother who lives in poverty or his Aunt who lives illegally here in the good OLE USA. His Aunt is also living below poverty level.
Yep he is generous with other people's money. Obama at the very least could have offered to sponsor his Aunt so she could have become a legal citizen.
He knew good and well she was here illegally he some how just overlooked that. No it does not make it right just because we have other illegals 2 wrongs do not make a right.

If Obama has no compassion for his own family what makes the libs think he will have compassion for the middle class or main street the way he puts it. Is it by his actions? Clearly not. It is by his words. I am just can't believe so many are led astray just by a good speaker. His record proves over and over he is not generous.

Obama's very own district in Chicago is a freaking slum. If he cannot help them he surely cannot help us. Let me show you what I mean.

YouTube - Obama's forgotten people

Obama's favorite answer is oh I just did not know. Like with his racist pastor he went to his church with for 20 years. Obama just did not know that. The media picked it up in 2 weeks. Wow a Harvard graduate just did not know that or is he a liar?

Things like this might not be important to you but when I know someone has told me a lie. I am suspicious of them until they show me something totally different. That is why I will NOT be voting for Obama he is a liar and is record shows it.

You seem to be running off of pure emotion and refusing to take a pragmatic look at what's really going on here, and that's exactly where both campaigns want you. First of all, if you have a problem with being told lies then you are totally and completely screwed. Both candidates/campaigns are spewing lies and I would encourage you to see that for yourself at FactCheck.org. This is the game of politics and you should be able to take all of this campaign bullshit with a gigantic grain of salt. And by the way, I'm not itnerested in propaganda films posted on youtube.

On the issue of "slackers". There will always be welfare and other social programs in this country as it is one of the things that separates us from third world nations with their shanty towns with raw sewage in the streets and epidemics running rampant. I don't like paying for it any more than you do but it's not going anywhere my dear, it's necessary.

Thirdly, you talk about us being "at war". This is another indicator that your sole source of info comes from big media and the campaigns. It's true that we're involved in a war in Afghanistan, but Iraq is no war. Iraq is the Bush adminstration's attempt at creating and taking advantage of a new economic market. The billions of dollars that this war has cost the taxpayer but has been put BACK into the pockets of administration officials and others through their interests in profiteering companies is SICKENING. The sole purpose of our invasion of Iraq was to implement a new free market. To privatize all of Iraqs national resources and infrastructure and to sell in back to them. Do your own research on this. "The best time to invest is when there's still blood on the ground."

Question: Where are all of these jobs you want everyone to run out and get? On one hand you talk about layoffs and a bad economy. On the other you tell folks to stop whining and go "get a job".

Get off of the small stuff and try to take a look at the big picture. Politicians lie. It's what they do.