Economics

[P@triot]

Some facts about the economy:

• The U.S. actually leads the world in manufacturing. Yes, you read that correctly. We produce 21 percent of global manufactured products, while China comes after at 15 percent. According ot the National Association of Manufacturers, “manufacturing supports an estimated 17 million jobs in the U.S.—about one in six private sector jobs.”
  
  
• Big manufacturers are building new plants here. BMW is adding 300 new jobs to its South Carolina plant this year, and Airbus recently announced it will employ 1,000 at a new plant in Alabama. (Both South Carolina and Alabama are right-to-work states, meaning that workers aren’t forced to join unions.)
  
  
• Multinational corporations still employ more Americans. U.S.-based multinational corporations employ 22.9 million Americans—more than twice as many people as they employ in China, Mexico, and all other countries combined.
  
  
• There is no “giant sucking sound” of jobs and money fleeing the United States. According to the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, the total value of foreign investment in the United States exceeds the value of U.S. investments in other countries by more than $4 trillion. Foreign-owned multinational corporations employ 5.5 million people in the United States.
  
  
• “Insourced” businesses are a tremendous boon for the U.S. economy. “Insourced” jobs—jobs brought to America by foreign-based companies—account for nearly 5 percent of private-sector employment. These businesses buy more than $1.8 trillion in goods and services from local suppliers and small businesses in the areas where they locate.
  
  
• Hong Kong, ranked No. 1 in the Index, has an economy that has been growing at 7 percent. That’s astounding. In contrast, U.S. GDP growth in the first quarter of 2012 was a paltry 1.9 percent. There are several reasons why Hong Kong is No. 1 and America is No. 10. Hong Kong’s top corporate tax rate is only 16.5%, compared to the U.S. rate of 35%. Hong Kong’s trade regime is one of the world’s most competitive and efficient, with a zero tariff rate. And its regulatory environment is “highly supportive of business efficiency.”

http://www.myheritage.org/news/the-truth-about-outsourcing-and-the-real-fix-for-our-economy/

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/19/morning-bell-lets-be-honest-about-outsourcing/

 

[P@triot]

"As a nation $15 trillion in debt, with historic unemployment three years after liberals supposedly “fixed” the economy with their $800 billion stimulus, voters are agreeing with conservatives that maybe government isn’t as good at solving economic problems as liberals would like us to believe."

The results of all the runaway spending, debt and bailouts have proved Ronald Reagan correct. “Government is not the solution to our problem,” Reagan said. “Government is the problem.”

The Government Isn’t Broken. It’s Simply Broke. | myHeritage

 

[Avorysuds]

Sadly the Republicans elected a progressive and Obama is already a Progressive... Looks like not will change for the US for quite sometime.

 

[Foxfyre]

A stellar OP, Rottweiler, and kudos. But there are some nuances and extenuating facts that have to be included in that mix.

For instance, there are a number of large American born but multi-national corporations that are 'in bed' so to speak with the fefderal government that pay little or no corporate taxes at any rate. Why? Because they ARE shipping their more profitable operations over seas to more business friendly environments, and keeping their least profitable opeations here where they can show a business loss and enjoy a huge tax write off.

We need a business environment that will make it attractive to do business here in the U.S. Obviously not enough business is doing that or we wouldn't have so many millions of Americans who want work and can't find a job that pays a living wage.

 

[Joe Steel]

Some facts about the economy:

The fact is, your facts deal mostly with the ways things are and not the difference between that and the way things were. That's where the problem lies. Republicans have devasted the economy by off-shoring so much US production that the amount we have left is nowhere near enough.

Secondly, the jobs remaining pay less in adjusted dollars than what they used to pay.

And the foreign manufacturers are building factories here because they regard the US as their third world. American manufactures offshore production to sweatshops in Asia because the poor deserate slugs who live there will work in abyssmal conditions for far less than they'd get if they lived in America. European and Japanese car manufacturers are doing the same thing except that they're substituting America for Asia.

Those are the facts.

 

[P@triot]

A stellar OP, Rottweiler, and kudos. But there are some nuances and extenuating facts that have to be included in that mix.

For instance, there are a number of large American born but multi-national corporations that are 'in bed' so to speak with the fefderal government that pay little or no corporate taxes at any rate. Why? Because they ARE shipping their more profitable operations over seas to more business friendly environments, and keeping their least profitable opeations here where they can show a business loss and enjoy a huge tax write off.

We need a business environment that will make it attractive to do business here in the U.S. Obviously not enough business is doing that or we wouldn't have so many millions of Americans who want work and can't find a job that pays a living wage.

You're absolutely correct, which is why I think that last bullet point is the most crucial. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, which is just killing us. We nearly double the tax rate of Hong Kong, which happens to be #1 in growth.

Unfortunately, rather than focusing on getting everyone working and taking fair taxes from everyone, the left focuses on using taxes as a tool to punish the successful. It's all tax them hard and spend, tax them hard and spend, tax them hard and spend.

Despite these bad policies, the numbers show that outsourcing still favors us (thus Mitt Romney is not the threat the left is trying to paint him to be). Can you imagine if we lowered our corporate tax rate to the same or lower than Hong Kong? We'd rule the world! That's why we desperately need to hand Mitt Romney a conservative majority in the House and Senate in November. It's going to take a monumental effort to correct the express way to collapse that the left has placed this nation on... They are using the same policies that collapsed the U.S.S.R., Cuba, Greece, etc.

 

[Joe Steel]

Hong Kong, ranked No. 1 in the Index, has an economy that has been growing at 7 percent. That’s astounding. In contrast, U.S. GDP growth in the first quarter of 2012 was a paltry 1.9 percent. There are several reasons why Hong Kong is No. 1 and America is No. 10. Hong Kong’s top corporate tax rate is only 16.5%, compared to the U.S. rate of 35%. Hong Kong’s trade regime is one of the world’s most competitive and efficient, with a zero tariff rate. And its regulatory environment is “highly supportive of business efficiency.”

Presumably, you're implying the US should lower its tax rate.

Why?

US firms are sitting on $2T of cash they won't invest. Why should we give them more?

Instead, we should impose a surplus capital tax. Make them spend the money or give it to the government so the government can spend it.

 

[P@triot]

Hong Kong, ranked No. 1 in the Index, has an economy that has been growing at 7 percent. That’s astounding. In contrast, U.S. GDP growth in the first quarter of 2012 was a paltry 1.9 percent. There are several reasons why Hong Kong is No. 1 and America is No. 10. Hong Kong’s top corporate tax rate is only 16.5%, compared to the U.S. rate of 35%. Hong Kong’s trade regime is one of the world’s most competitive and efficient, with a zero tariff rate. And its regulatory environment is “highly supportive of business efficiency.”

Presumably, you're implying the US should lower its tax rate.

Why?

US firms are sitting on $2T of cash they won't invest. Why should we give them more?

Instead, we should impose a surplus capital tax. Make them spend the money or give it to the government.

Who are you or anyone to "make them spend money"? It's their money, they earned it, it's their's to do with as they see fit.

You're entire statement is pure, unadulterated Communism. If you love that so much, move to Russia or Cuba. America is never going to cave to Communism/Marxism/Socialism.

You want to see them spend money or invest? Then stop with policies that are killing them and create policies that encourage and reward growth/spending/investment.

 

[P@triot]

Hong Kong, ranked No. 1 in the Index, has an economy that has been growing at 7 percent. That’s astounding. In contrast, U.S. GDP growth in the first quarter of 2012 was a paltry 1.9 percent. There are several reasons why Hong Kong is No. 1 and America is No. 10. Hong Kong’s top corporate tax rate is only 16.5%, compared to the U.S. rate of 35%. Hong Kong’s trade regime is one of the world’s most competitive and efficient, with a zero tariff rate. And its regulatory environment is “highly supportive of business efficiency.”

Presumably, you're implying the US should lower its tax rate.

Why?

US firms are sitting on $2T of cash they won't invest. Why should we give them more?

Instead, we should impose a surplus capital tax. Make them spend the money or give it to the government so the government can spend it.

Do you not see the irony in what you just said? If I'm a business owner and I'm reading your posts that are demonizing me and looking to punish me, am I going to spend or am I going to sit on my money for fear that you are going to take as much of it in the future as possible? I just can't believe the left doesn't see the irony in their own philosophy. If you want business to do something for you, demonzing them and threatening them is a bad idea. Ever hear the phrase "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"?

 

[P@triot]

Some facts about the economy:

The fact is, your facts deal mostly with the ways things are and not the difference between that and the way things were. That's where the problem lies. Republicans have devasted the economy by off-shoring so much US production that the amount we have left is nowhere near enough.

Secondly, the jobs remaining pay less in adjusted dollars than what they used to pay.

And the foreign manufacturers are building factories here because they regard the US as their third world. American manufactures offshore production to sweatshops in Asia because the poor deserate slugs who live there will work in abyssmal conditions for far less than they'd get if they lived in America. European and Japanese car manufacturers are doing the same thing except that they're substituting America for Asia.

Those are the facts.

You're statement makes no sense. The facts show that America actually has a surplus on outsourcing (ie more jobs from other countries coming in that jobs going out to other countries). Second, we lead the world in "production".

You're literally spouting misinformation here. Third, the GOP did not "devastate" the economy. That was done by the Democrats under Bill Clinton who singed the Community Re-investment Act and collapsed our housing market by ensuring that people who couldn't afford home loans received them.

You're wrong on everything you just stated and the facts prove that.

 

[Foxfyre]

Some facts about the economy:

The fact is, your facts deal mostly with the ways things are and not the difference between that and the way things were. That's where the problem lies. Republicans have devasted the economy by off-shoring so much US production that the amount we have left is nowhere near enough.

Secondly, the jobs remaining pay less in adjusted dollars than what they used to pay.

And the foreign manufacturers are building factories here because they regard the US as their third world. American manufactures offshore production to sweatshops in Asia because the poor deserate slugs who live there will work in abyssmal conditions for far less than they'd get if they lived in America. European and Japanese car manufacturers are doing the same thing except that they're substituting America for Asia.

Those are the facts.

I believe the record will show that Republicans are no more guilty of outsourcing than are Democrats. And while I'm sure you have been taught what you posted, I won't even bother challenging you to support that highly partisan statement because I know you can't do it with any credible source.

President Obama's jobs 'czar' for instance is the CEO of General Electric who is benefitting hugely from Obama's energy policies but who have recently paid little or no taxes in the USA and are making almost all of their huge profits elsewhere in place that benefit the USA not at all.

So let's keep the concept honest okay?

 

[Some Guy]

Do you not see the irony in what you just said? If I'm a business owner and I'm reading your posts that are demonizing me and looking to punish me, am I going to spend or am I going to sit on my money for fear that you are going to take as much of it in the future as possible? I just can't believe the left doesn't see the irony in their own philosophy. If you want business to do something for you, demonzing them and threatening them is a bad idea. Ever hear the phrase "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"?

Well, some people respond well to threats. I doubt the ones with millions of dollars to throw around would though.

And why is government always the authority on how to spend money? Government is pretty damn terrible at spending money in every way because there's no one there who's really personally held accountable for spending that money poorly.

And I never really hear much from the "tax and spend" group relating to how and why these people have a lot of money to spend. Why do they? Because they're good at providing products that are desirable. Do they not deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor? Did Steve Jobs not deserve the money and recognition that came with being a visionary in the electronics and computing industry? Does Bill Gates not deserve the rewards for developing countless applications that have made life better for millions of people worldwide?

 

[P@triot]

Sadly the Republicans elected a progressive and Obama is already a Progressive... Looks like not will change for the US for quite sometime.

Clearly a Ron Paul supporter, uh?

Look, Mitt Romney knows why the American people elected him and it's not to be a progressive. He was elected as governor in a very progressive state and as such, had to implement the progressive policies of the people he represented (a representative is not supposed to be a dictator, no matter what Barack Obama believes).

But he knows he was elected by Ron Paul liberatarians and Glenn Beck conservatives, and he will act accordingly because he knows he will not get re-elected if he doesn't. The Ron Paul and Glenn Beck base need to stop the fear mongering now that we officially have the nominee and they just need to get behind him - then hold his feet to the fire. I agree with a large portion of the Ron Paul base, but I'll never understand why they pout to the degree they do. For some reason, they simply can't accept that he lost.

 

[P@triot]

Do you not see the irony in what you just said? If I'm a business owner and I'm reading your posts that are demonizing me and looking to punish me, am I going to spend or am I going to sit on my money for fear that you are going to take as much of it in the future as possible? I just can't believe the left doesn't see the irony in their own philosophy. If you want business to do something for you, demonzing them and threatening them is a bad idea. Ever hear the phrase "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"?

Well, some people respond well to threats. I doubt the ones with millions of dollars to throw around would though.

And why is government always the authority on how to spend money? Government is pretty damn terrible at spending money in every way because there's no one there who's really personally held accountable for spending that money poorly.

And I never really hear much from the "tax and spend" group relating to how and why these people have a lot of money to spend. Why do they? Because they're good at providing products that are desirable. Do they not deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor? Did Steve Jobs not deserve the money and recognition that came with being a visionary in the electronics and computing industry? Does Bill Gates not deserve the rewards for developing countless applications that have made life better for millions of people worldwide?

We've seen nothing but catastrophic failure from government, yet the left worships more government. We're $16 trillion in debt and losing freedoms by the second, and all the left wants to do is hand them more money and more power. It is astounding.

 

[P@triot]

My question is, how much failure, poverty, misery, and collapse does one need to see before they will acknowledge that their policies don't work? Just think of these examples here - few of many:

• U.S.S.R - collapsed under socialism
  
• Cuba - perpetual poverty under socialism
  
• Greece - currently collapsing from their socialism
  
• England - trying desperately to decentralize their healthcare system because the socialism they implemented is bankrupting the government
  
• Spain - collapsing from their socialism
  
• Germany - Moody’s credit rating agency has pronounced Germany’s credit rating outlook to be negative, which often precedes downgrades.

When the government tries to spread the wealth and/or provide for the people, it ends in collapse. It cannot be done. Period. Yet here we sit on this message board day after day listening to the left ignore the numbers and claim that capitalism and the GOP caused a global economic meltdown. I just keep wondering how much evidence is required before someone will acknowledge reality?

 

[Foxfyre]

Hong Kong, ranked No. 1 in the Index, has an economy that has been growing at 7 percent. That’s astounding. In contrast, U.S. GDP growth in the first quarter of 2012 was a paltry 1.9 percent. There are several reasons why Hong Kong is No. 1 and America is No. 10. Hong Kong’s top corporate tax rate is only 16.5%, compared to the U.S. rate of 35%. Hong Kong’s trade regime is one of the world’s most competitive and efficient, with a zero tariff rate. And its regulatory environment is “highly supportive of business efficiency.”

Presumably, you're implying the US should lower its tax rate.

Why?

US firms are sitting on $2T of cash they won't invest. Why should we give them more?

Instead, we should impose a surplus capital tax. Make them spend the money or give it to the government so the government can spend it.

You wouldn't be giving them more. You would be allowing them to keep more of what they have earned and thereby reduce the risk of reinvesting all that capital into the economy. That in turn generates economic activity by others who in turn pay taxes and more than offsets whatever taxes might not be owed due to a lower tax base.

 

[Moonglow]

Much of the unemployed will never go back to work as long as the trade imbalanced is allowed to exists.

 

[Foxfyre]

Do you not see the irony in what you just said? If I'm a business owner and I'm reading your posts that are demonizing me and looking to punish me, am I going to spend or am I going to sit on my money for fear that you are going to take as much of it in the future as possible? I just can't believe the left doesn't see the irony in their own philosophy. If you want business to do something for you, demonzing them and threatening them is a bad idea. Ever hear the phrase "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"?

Well, some people respond well to threats. I doubt the ones with millions of dollars to throw around would though.

And why is government always the authority on how to spend money? Government is pretty damn terrible at spending money in every way because there's no one there who's really personally held accountable for spending that money poorly.

And I never really hear much from the "tax and spend" group relating to how and why these people have a lot of money to spend. Why do they? Because they're good at providing products that are desirable. Do they not deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor? Did Steve Jobs not deserve the money and recognition that came with being a visionary in the electronics and computing industry? Does Bill Gates not deserve the rewards for developing countless applications that have made life better for millions of people worldwide?

As a brief aside, I would invite anybody interested to look in on my New Emancipation Proclamation thread that deals with putting limits on what government can spend.

But the premise here is spot on. Does the money belong to the government? Or does it belong to those who earned it? Our point of view on that single concept is what drives most of the more controversial government policy.

 

[P@triot]

Much of the unemployed will never go back to work as long as the trade imbalanced is allowed to exists.

I agree with that and I think most Americans would as well. We need to drastically lower taxes (both corporate and income), correct trade imbalances, and look at outsourcing.

I'm a die-hard conservative, and personally, I believe that outsourcing jobs should be completely illegal unless the position over seas is in full compliance with all labor laws in the US (that includes safety, salary, work environment, etc.). Otherwise, your circumventing existing laws and that is just wrong. It would be like inviting someone on a trip to another country, murdering them, and then trying to make the case it was ok because the laws against murder only apply on US soil.

By enforcing all of the labor laws, it wouldn't make much business sense to outsource the jobs. But as it stands now, the Democrats with their anti-business policies cause the outsourcing because they want to punish businesses to death with taxes and regulations. Create a friendly business environment, and you will get businesses (this is not rocket science here). If, after that, there are still some outsourcing issues, then the next step would be to incentivise keeping jobs here with additional tax breaks or other perks.

 

[P@triot]

Do you not see the irony in what you just said? If I'm a business owner and I'm reading your posts that are demonizing me and looking to punish me, am I going to spend or am I going to sit on my money for fear that you are going to take as much of it in the future as possible? I just can't believe the left doesn't see the irony in their own philosophy. If you want business to do something for you, demonzing them and threatening them is a bad idea. Ever hear the phrase "you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"?

Well, some people respond well to threats. I doubt the ones with millions of dollars to throw around would though.

And why is government always the authority on how to spend money? Government is pretty damn terrible at spending money in every way because there's no one there who's really personally held accountable for spending that money poorly.

And I never really hear much from the "tax and spend" group relating to how and why these people have a lot of money to spend. Why do they? Because they're good at providing products that are desirable. Do they not deserve to enjoy the fruits of their labor? Did Steve Jobs not deserve the money and recognition that came with being a visionary in the electronics and computing industry? Does Bill Gates not deserve the rewards for developing countless applications that have made life better for millions of people worldwide?

As a brief aside, I would invite anybody interested to look in on my New Emancipation Proclamation thread that deals with putting limits on what government can spend.

But the premise here is spot on. Does the money belong to the government? Or does it belong to those who earned it? Our point of view on that single concept is what drives most of the more controversial government policy.

This is the heart of the argument. The left simply will not acknowledge it, but the truth is, they believe in Communism - ie the money belongs to EVERYONE and should be shared, regardless of who made it. The right believes in freedom and personal responsibility - ie it's yours to keep if you make it, but you have to go do it on your own.