Eat more Meat.

[buttercup]

If Nature had wanted humans not to eat meat, we wouldn't be able to digest it and use it. And mammals, by definition, are designed to eat animal products, since that is the primary quality about them that gains them the name "mammals".

If we're going by the biblical perspective, we were not originally designed to be meat eaters. According to the Bible, God originally designed both humans and animals to be herbivores. (Genesis 1:29-30)

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We were talking about God's original design. Meat eating didn't come until hundreds of years later, after the flood. Meat eating was never God's idea, and one view on the verse you posted is that God gave us over to what our weak sinful flesh wanted. There's much much more to be said about that, but the point is that it is definitely not God's original design.

Were you there?

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't recognize you as an authority on God's intentions nor upon human biology.

No, but neither were you. I posted Genesis 1:29-30. Do you not believe that verse?

 

[boedicca]

If Nature had wanted humans not to eat meat, we wouldn't be able to digest it and use it. And mammals, by definition, are designed to eat animal products, since that is the primary quality about them that gains them the name "mammals".

If we're going by the biblical perspective, we were not originally designed to be meat eaters. According to the Bible, God originally designed both humans and animals to be herbivores. (Genesis 1:29-30)

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We were talking about God's original design. Meat eating didn't come until hundreds of years later, after the flood. Meat eating was never God's idea, and one view on the verse you posted is that God gave us over to what our weak sinful flesh wanted. There's much much more to be said about that, but the point is that it is definitely not God's original design.

Were you there?

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't recognize you as an authority on God's intentions nor upon human biology.

No, but neither were you. I posted Genesis 1:29-30. Do you not believe that verse?

Not your interpretation, hun. Try reading up on the role of myth and the history of the Bible.

I'll note that Genesis 1 doesn't trump Genesis 9. The old testament is a history. Try interpreting it as a progression.

 

[buttercup]

If Nature had wanted humans not to eat meat, we wouldn't be able to digest it and use it. And mammals, by definition, are designed to eat animal products, since that is the primary quality about them that gains them the name "mammals".

If we're going by the biblical perspective, we were not originally designed to be meat eaters. According to the Bible, God originally designed both humans and animals to be herbivores. (Genesis 1:29-30)

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We were talking about God's original design. Meat eating didn't come until hundreds of years later, after the flood. Meat eating was never God's idea, and one view on the verse you posted is that God gave us over to what our weak sinful flesh wanted. There's much much more to be said about that, but the point is that it is definitely not God's original design.

If you have an empty belly, you don't ponder such things.

Yes, I agree with you that if people are in survival mode and have nothing else to eat, then eating animals is understandable. But in today's world, that is not the case for the majority of the population. Animal products are linked to cancer, heart disease, and other health problems, animal agriculture is one of the worst, if not the worst thing for the environment, and the cruelty and exploitation that goes on every day is much, much worse than most people realize. And it is completely unnecessary.

 

[boedicca]

If Nature had wanted humans not to eat meat, we wouldn't be able to digest it and use it. And mammals, by definition, are designed to eat animal products, since that is the primary quality about them that gains them the name "mammals".

If we're going by the biblical perspective, we were not originally designed to be meat eaters. According to the Bible, God originally designed both humans and animals to be herbivores. (Genesis 1:29-30)

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We were talking about God's original design. Meat eating didn't come until hundreds of years later, after the flood. Meat eating was never God's idea, and one view on the verse you posted is that God gave us over to what our weak sinful flesh wanted. There's much much more to be said about that, but the point is that it is definitely not God's original design.

If you have an empty belly, you don't ponder such things.

Yes, I agree with you that if people are in survival mode and have nothing else to eat, then eating animals is understandable. But in today's world, that is not the case for the majority of the population. Animal products are linked to cancer, heart disease, and other health problems, animal agriculture is one of the worst, if not the worst thing for the environment, and the cruelty and exploitation that goes on every day is much, much worse than most people realize. And it is completely unnecessary.

Good for you. Live on plants. More bacon for the rest of us.

 

[buttercup]

If we're going by the biblical perspective, we were not originally designed to be meat eaters. According to the Bible, God originally designed both humans and animals to be herbivores. (Genesis 1:29-30)

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We were talking about God's original design. Meat eating didn't come until hundreds of years later, after the flood. Meat eating was never God's idea, and one view on the verse you posted is that God gave us over to what our weak sinful flesh wanted. There's much much more to be said about that, but the point is that it is definitely not God's original design.

Were you there?

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't recognize you as an authority on God's intentions nor upon human biology.

No, but neither were you. I posted Genesis 1:29-30. Do you not believe that verse?

Not your interpretation, hun. Try reading up on the role of myth and the history of the Bible.

I'll note that Genesis 1 doesn't trump Genesis 9. The old testament is a history. Try interpreting it as a progression.

How else are you supposed to interpret something that is plainly written in black and white? Even meat eating Bible scholars state that in the beginning we were all vegetarians. That's not even something that is debated, in biblical circles.

Besides, the heart of God is one of love, mercy, kindness, selflessness… None of those things go along with killing in order to satisfy one's taste buds with the flesh of another. So, in light of that, I don't know what you're basing your interpretation of Genesis 1:29-30 on.

 

[Mindful]

Nothing stays the same. There could be famine, more war, collapse of civilisations.

People in Germany after the War, were reduced to eating rats.

 

[buttercup]

Humans are omnivores. That's a biological fact.

I know that people want to believe that, to justify their penchant for eating flesh… But we have the characteristics of herbivores, that is undeniable.

 

[boedicca]

Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

We were talking about God's original design. Meat eating didn't come until hundreds of years later, after the flood. Meat eating was never God's idea, and one view on the verse you posted is that God gave us over to what our weak sinful flesh wanted. There's much much more to be said about that, but the point is that it is definitely not God's original design.

Were you there?

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't recognize you as an authority on God's intentions nor upon human biology.

No, but neither were you. I posted Genesis 1:29-30. Do you not believe that verse?

Not your interpretation, hun. Try reading up on the role of myth and the history of the Bible.

I'll note that Genesis 1 doesn't trump Genesis 9. The old testament is a history. Try interpreting it as a progression.

How else are you supposed to interpret something that is plainly written in black and white? Even meat eating Bible scholars state that in the beginning we were all vegetarians. That's not even something that is debated, in biblical circles.

Besides, the heart of God is one of love, mercy, kindness, selflessness… None of those things go along with killing in order to satisfy one's taste buds with the flesh of another. So, in light of that, I don't know what you're basing your interpretation of Genesis 1:29-30 on.

I call this projection. God designed humans to eat meat just as he designed lions to do so. It has to do with the body's nutritional requirements. You are over-reading intention by cherry-picking sentences out of context.

 

[boedicca]

Humans are omnivores. That's a biological fact.

I know that people want to believe that, to justify their penchant for eating flesh… But we have the characteristics of herbivores, that is undeniable.

It's called "omnivore", hun. That's what humans are. Look it up.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I honestly don't know if I should spit on you for the logical fallacy of appeal to authority, for being an utter dumbass, or for being a hypocrite. I am genuinely torn with indecision.

I will ask, however, who it was who said ANYTHING about 'the Biblical perspective". I'm talking biology, Mensa Girl.

The only reason I brought up the biblical perspective is because I was under the impression that you are a Bible believing Christian. I would not have said that to someone who was an atheist or non Christian.

Here's the only impression you should be under, hon: what I actually say. If I feel the need to make an argument from the Bible, I will do so myself. I do not require the likes of you to choose my argument for me, then shove the (very badly made) argument into my mouth, and then try to hold me responsible for answering for your inferior words.

Whenever you have the wherewithal to discuss things with the ACTUAL Cecilie, instead of the one you make up in your head, do let me know, won't you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Humans are omnivores. That's a biological fact.

I know that people want to believe that, to justify their penchant for eating flesh… But we have the characteristics of herbivores, that is undeniable.

We have SOME characteristics of herbivores. We also have some characteristics of carnivores. That would fit in with the whole "omnivore" concept.

Honestly, some people.

 

[buttercup]

I call this projection. God designed humans to eat meat just as he designed lions to do so. It has to do with the body's nutritional requirements. You are over-reading intention by cherry-picking sentences out of context.

That is so blatantly wrong, I don't even know where to begin. First of all, are you denying that God's heart is one of love and mercy? God created the animals, God loves the animals, there are numerous scriptures that back that up. Just off the top of my head, Psalm 145:9 comes to mind:

"The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made."

Secondly, it is undeniable that sentient animals like pigs, cows, sheep, etc., feel pain… they experience fear, terror, pain, etc. Now please be honest in answering this question… Do you really think that a God of love and mercy would create animals with the ability to feel pain and suffering, if he meant for them to be killed, mistreated, and eaten? If he meant for animals to be food, don't you think he would have created them without the ability to feel pain? Unless you think God is sadistic, your position makes zero sense.

Thirdly, it is not projection to say that God is one of love and mercy. Anyone who knows God knows that is the truth. Why do you think Jesus died on the cross for us… It's called love and mercy. Selflessness. The exact opposite of eating the dead flesh of a tortured being.

The reason why some animals are predators and eat other animals is because when sin came into the world, the world changed… And not for the better. It went from the peace and harmony that existed in the very beginning, to death, violence, bloodshed, selfishness, cruelty, evil. As Christians… What should we strive for: God's original design, or the ways of this fallen world?

 

[boedicca]

I call this projection. God designed humans to eat meat just as he designed lions to do so. It has to do with the body's nutritional requirements. You are over-reading intention by cherry-picking sentences out of context.

That is so blatantly wrong, I don't even know where to begin. First of all, are you denying that God's heart is one of love and mercy? God created the animals, God loves the animals, there are numerous scriptures that back that up. Just off the top of my head, Psalm 145:9 comes to mind:

"The Lord is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made."

Secondly, it is undeniable that sentient animals like pigs, cows, sheep, etc., feel pain… they experience fear, terror, pain, etc. Now please be honest in answering this question… Do you really think that a God of love and mercy would create animals with the ability to feel pain and suffering, if he meant for them to be killed, mistreated, and eaten? If he meant for animals to be food, don't you think he would have created them without the ability to feel pain? Unless you think God is sadistic, your position makes zero sense.

Thirdly, it is not projection to say that God is one of love and mercy. Anyone who knows God knows that is the truth. Why do you think Jesus died on the cross for us… It's called love and mercy. Selflessness. The exact opposite of eating the dead flesh of a tortured being.

The reason why some animals are predators and eat other animals is because when sin came into the world, the world changed… And not for the better. It went from the peace and harmony that existed in the very beginning, to death, violence, bloodshed, selfishness, cruelty, evil. As Christians… What should we strive for: God's original design, or the ways of this fallen world?

We all die. Using your logic, God's design is immoral because we all die.

I reject your dogma that meat eating is a sin. It is natural and something that a wide variety of species do.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The reason why some animals are predators and eat other animals is because when sin came into the world, the world changed… And not for the better. It went from the peace and harmony that existed in the very beginning, to death, violence, bloodshed, selfishness, cruelty, evil. As Christians… What should we strive for: God's original design, or the ways of this fallen world?

This is in-line with the Word because it is in-line with scripture which resolves that the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard which will lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy will be leading them.

This is, after all, the Word.

It's true that we live in a fallen world. And scripture clearly tells us that it will not always be that way.

 

[buttercup]

We all die. Using your logic, God's design is immoral because we all die.

I reject your dogma that meat eating is a sin. It is natural and something that a wide variety of species do.

Well that actually wasn't God's original design, death was a result of sin coming into the world… In other words, a result of man's actions, not to be blamed on God. And I didn't say that meat eating is a sin. But I do think that selfishness is a sin, and I can't speak for others, but as Christians, if we know better, we should do better. I think the problem is that a lot of people have no idea just how bad the animal industries are. So they eat meat, while claiming to love animals, because they really don't know how bad it is. But if we do something knowingly, out of selfishness… then that's a different story.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Nothing stays the same. There could be famine, more war, collapse of civilisations.

People in Germany after the War, were reduced to eating rats.

God loves peace.

Sin brought war and famine. And it always will. These are the works of fallen Man.

 

[boedicca]

We all die. Using your logic, God's design is immoral because we all die.

I reject your dogma that meat eating is a sin. It is natural and something that a wide variety of species do.

Well that actually wasn't God's original design, death was a result of sin coming into the world… In other words, a result of man's actions, not to be blamed on God. And I didn't say that meat eating is a sin. But I do think that selfishness is a sin, and I can't speak for others, but as Christians, if we know better, we should do better. I think the problem is that a lot of people have no idea just how bad the animal industries are. So they eat meat, while claiming to love animals, because they really don't know how bad it is. But if we do something knowingly, out of selfishness… then that's a different story.

Think that if it gives you comfort.

In realityland, there is a natural cycle of life involving birth and death, bloom and decay, predators and prey.

 

[buttercup]

The reason why some animals are predators and eat other animals is because when sin came into the world, the world changed… And not for the better. It went from the peace and harmony that existed in the very beginning, to death, violence, bloodshed, selfishness, cruelty, evil. As Christians… What should we strive for: God's original design, or the ways of this fallen world?

This is in-line with the Word because it is in-line with scripture which resolves that the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard wich will lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy will be leading them.

This is, after all, the Word.

It's true that we live in a fallen world. And scripture clearly tells us that it will not always be that way.

Exactly! I didn't mention that earlier, but it's an important point. Here's a way that I try to explain it... Picture a timeline. In the very beginning, in the garden of Eden, there was peace and harmony among humans and animals, no violence and meat eating. And in the end, God will restore that peace and harmony that existed in the beginning, and we will go back to God's original design...Because God does not change, that was, is, and always will be God's will.

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den.
They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.

Isaiah 11:6-9

So, for Christians I think we should look at the bigger picture. We have God's original design of peace and harmony in the beginning, and God's ultimate plan of peace and harmony in the end. Everything in between is the ways of this fallen world. Should Christians aim for God's perfect will, or the ways of this fallen world? Just some food for thought.

 

[buttercup]

Think that if it gives you comfort.

In realityland, there is a natural cycle of life involving birth and death, bloom and decay, predators and prey.

No, it is what I actually believe. Not because it gives me comfort. In fact, you just reminded me of a quote, that pretty much sums up my experience:

If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end;
if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth,
only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin,
and in the end, despair.

– C. S. Lewis

 

[boedicca]

Think that if it gives you comfort.

In realityland, there is a natural cycle of life involving birth and death, bloom and decay, predators and prey.

No, it is what I actually believe. Not because it gives me comfort. In fact, you just reminded me of a quote, that pretty much sums up my experience:

If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end;
if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth,
only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin,
and in the end, despair.

– C. S. Lewis

C.S. Lewis wasn't a vegan, hun.