East Timor's Unfinished Business Has The US & EU Up In Arms

NATO AIR

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2004
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what a wonderful country, east timor, how sad they had to endure brutal violence for making their yearnings for freedom known... now they are free and want justice, but their government is trying to move on... which is more important?

justice or prosperity?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3985135.stm

East Timor's unfinished business

By Sarah Buckley
BBC News


Five years after 1,000 people died as East Timor broke away from Indonesia, almost all those responsible for the violence are still walking free.
An Indonesian court's decision on Friday to acquit East Timor's former governor Abilio Soares means only one conviction brought by Jakarta now stands.


President Gusmao wants better relations with Indonesia
Yet while the international community is quick to dismiss Indonesia's justice as a whitewash, few foreign governments are prepared to back their words with actions.


There is therefore a risk, analysts say, that the issue of justice over East Timor will be allowed to fade away.

Friday's court ruling came at the end of a two-year process that saw 18 people tried in Indonesia for human rights abuses in East Timor.

Jakarta set up a special human rights court to try the suspects, most of whom were members of the Indonesian security forces.

Now the court has failed to secure convictions, human rights groups say the cases should be handed over to an independent commission, with international backing.

A great many people, both aid workers on the ground and Timorese, feel it is time to move forward

Peter Kessler, UNHCR
But the biggest barrier to this and other suggestions is that East Timor's government is not interested.

Despite the loss of life and suffering during the 1999 violence, the country's new leaders now want a better relationship with their giant neighbour.

President Xanana Gusmao, East Timor's most famous resistance fighter, is now the strongest advocate of reconciliation, taking care not to offend Indonesian sensitivities, and even publicly embracing Gen Wiranto, the head of Indonesia's military in 1999.

One reason for this turnaround is that East Timor is so dependent on Indonesia for trade. East Timor is not only the world's youngest nation, but also one of its poorest - with one in four people living below the poverty line.

The other main factor, according to Marcelino Magno, a political analyst in East Timor, is security concerns regarding up to 15,000 Indonesian militia members and their relatives still living just across the border in Indonesian West Timor.

So although the EU, US and the UN may express concerns that justice does not appear to have been done, they are unlikely to push for something the East Timorese leadership does not want itself.

Popular anger



Without justice, the memories may not be laid to rest
Peter Kessler, a spokesman for the UN's refugee body the UNHCR, said East Timor's focus was on reconciliation.

"A great many people, both aid workers on the ground and Timorese, feel it is time to move forward, work on better relations," he said.

But Mr Magno said the majority of East Timorese did not support this view. They wanted to see Jakarta held accountable for the violence, and were angry at their government for not working harder.

"They have criticised the president, the prime minister, and the foreign minister because of this issue," he said.

Paul Barber of UK-based Indonesian rights campaign Tapol agreed.

"They are very helpless and frustrated and angry," he said.

But the wishes of East Timor's people is not the only the issue at stake.


Mr Barber said that the international community had to bring the alleged perpetrators of the violence to trial regardless of the East Timorese government's position.

"The East Timor government and the Indonesian government seem to have a veto over what should happen. That is hugely problematic because we're talking about alleged crimes against humanity.... the reason the international community are meant to take responsibility for such crimes is that they're of such a grave nature," he said.

And for the people of East Timor, as long as the 1999 violence in unpunished, then however successful the government's efforts at nation building, the ghosts of the past may not be laid to rest
 
NATO: I swear, if Powell resigns as Secretary of State, I'm gonna recommend that GW appoint you. I'd forgot all about East Timor. So what is the right way to go.....forget that people died in the fight for freedom and forget the oppressors, and sell out to the global economy that sadly will keep them in a third world status as long as they can, but is that somehow better than the abject poverty now. Jeez, this stuff just keeps swirling around and around and just keeps coming back on us.
 
Frankly, they don't have much of a choice but to try and put it behind them for peace. Indonesia (Muslims) surrounds them (don't forget, the Timorese are Catholic) and they saw what happened to the Chinese-Indonesians in the 1998 riots and that is something they don't want to happen to them.

Everybody has forgotten the autrocities carried out against the Catholic and Buddhist Chinese in Jakarta and other parts of Indonesia during and after the fall of Suaharto.

I had a lot of Chinese-Indo friends that left Indonesia after all that took place. The media here hardly covered it and the blogs were not like they are now. They got the word out by sending emails with pictures (usually taken by the Indonesian soldiers committing the crimes) of women being raped, burned with cigarettes on their privates, etc. and men having their penises chopped off, their heads chopped off, etc. It was bad and like I said, hardly even covered by the Western media.

Indonesian Treatment of Ethnic Chinese
 
freeandfun1 said:
Frankly, they don't have much of a choice but to try and put it behind them for peace. Indonesia (Muslims) surrounds them (don't forget, the Timorese are Catholic) and they saw what happened to the Chinese-Indonesians in the 1998 riots and that is something they don't want to happen to them.

Everybody has forgotten the autrocities carried out against the Catholic and Buddhist Chinese in Jakarta and other parts of Indonesia during and after the fall of Suaharto.

I had a lot of Chinese-Indo friends that left Indonesia after all that took place. The media here hardly covered it and the blogs were not like they are now. They got the word out by sending emails with pictures (usually taken by the Indonesian soldiers committing the crimes) of women being raped, burned with cigarettes on their privates, etc. and men having their penises chopped off, their heads chopped off, etc. It was bad and like I said, hardly even covered by the Western media.

Indonesian Treatment of Ethnic Chinese

free, i met a bartender when we were on port call in singapore who had fled indonesia after that. he told me about the horrible things the indonesian police and military had done. truly an awful day. credit must be given to amnesty international and human rights watch, who both lost members to torture and murder who were trying to compile and report what was happening. their efforts helped CNN to be the lone western media agency to actually report and profile the violence for several days.

i think you are right to the extent that indonesia does surround them. however, we can hope the indonesian government (which is now a democracy and has a new president) will avoid this sort of divisive violence in the future. we'll see though. i still think justice at least in the cases of the generals should happen.
 
sagegirl said:
NATO: I swear, if Powell resigns as Secretary of State, I'm gonna recommend that GW appoint you. I'd forgot all about East Timor. So what is the right way to go.....forget that people died in the fight for freedom and forget the oppressors, and sell out to the global economy that sadly will keep them in a third world status as long as they can, but is that somehow better than the abject poverty now. Jeez, this stuff just keeps swirling around and around and just keeps coming back on us.

thank you. :)

however, i couldn't stomach being a diplomat like powell is now. having to sit in the same room and talk with some of the monsters he has to hobnob with a regular basis would make me physically ill.

sadly, i believe that the people of east timor will have to put all this behind them and move on. i think there is another reason why the generals are being let off the hook... the folks who run the military in indonesia are likely scared to death of how much information the generals could give the west about the crimes they'd commited for decades both in east timor and in indonesia.
 
NATO AIR said:
free, i met a bartender when we were on port call in singapore who had fled indonesia after that. he told me about the horrible things the indonesian police and military had done. truly an awful day. credit must be given to amnesty international and human rights watch, who both lost members to torture and murder who were trying to compile and report what was happening. their efforts helped CNN to be the lone western media agency to actually report and profile the violence for several days.

i think you are right to the extent that indonesia does surround them. however, we can hope the indonesian government (which is now a democracy and has a new president) will avoid this sort of divisive violence in the future. we'll see though. i still think justice at least in the cases of the generals should happen.

They are an Islamic democracy, just like Malaysia and very, very, very corrupt. Just like Malaysia. Believe me, I spent a LOT of time in both of those countries and NOTHING is going to happen to Muslim Generals. Period.
 
freeandfun1 said:
They are an Islamic democracy, just like Malaysia and very, very, very corrupt. Just like Malaysia. Believe me, I spent a LOT of time in both of those countries and NOTHING is going to happen to Muslim Generals. Period.

i would agree with that observation.
 

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