Duality: is God the devil?

[Meriweather]

there is no god--so negative is the answer

Many of us who hold a belief in God have a faith based on the intellect and reason. Atheists often miss this aspect of faith. People of faith believe that human beings consist of body, mind, and spirit--and we have faith that the spirit lives on. Christians speak of faith the size of a mustard seed, and our faith begins with love--that God is a being of love, and that love builds strong individuals, families, and societies. We can find the body, we can find the mind...but there is no physical place from which love emanates. Love is of the spirit, and its source is God.

 

[harmonica]

there is no god--so negative is the answer

Many of us who hold a belief in God have a faith based on the intellect and reason. Atheists often miss this aspect of faith. People of faith believe that human beings consist of body, mind, and spirit--and we have faith that the spirit lives on. Christians speak of faith the size of a mustard seed, and our faith begins with love--that God is a being of love, and that love builds strong individuals, families, and societies. We can find the body, we can find the mind...but there is no physical place from which love emanates. Love is of the spirit, and its source is God.

fine--but that's not proof of god --so--negative is still the answer to the OP

 

[007]

There was a Christian group called the Cathar that believed that the creation of the physical world was the evil reaction to the creation of the Godly spiritual world. Today, the neo Cathars carry on this belief. The Catholic Church was unable to refute this so far for 800 years in a theological debate.

Let's discuss this problem.

In the book of Gsnesis, all physical creations are good and not evil, until one day God decides to take an extra day of vacation, and gives the day to the devil to steal Eve. After that, everything that is created suffers, and suffers to this day.

Jesus came at some later time, to provide a fix for the problem, but was blocked, and may be ineffective without babtism, when baptism is a miniscule 2% chance to happen in life, as national statistics put church attendance to 2 % of population in most countries.

The Cathar solution to this problem was to simply sit out the physical, and escape the evil, by not eating or drinking until physical death, like hospices do today.

But here is the problem with this. You may escape evil that transforms you in the future of your physical life, but what do you do with the evil that has already transformed you in the present?

Discuss.

Why do you feel the need to tell people to "DISCUSS?"

Are you afraid that maybe your topic is too boring to "DISCUSS," so you need to TELL people to?

Do you feel that people are too stupid to know to "DISCUSS?"

Is "DISCUSS" a demand, an order, or is it optional?

 

[Meriweather]

fine--but that's not proof of god --so--negative is still the answer to the OP

First we must understand proof. Proof, by definition, relates only to the physical world. When we study spirit, we do not have the tools of proof. We must let go of them and make a bit more use of what we know of the subjective. It can be argued there is no beauty, no love, no joy--that they are all mere perceptions of dissimilar minds. Yet aren't they all very human experiences? And this is where spirit comes into play.

Some people do insist that it is only body and mind--things that can be measured, but to many of us, the third aspect of spirit makes sense as well.

 

[harmonica]

fine--but that's not proof of god --so--negative is still the answer to the OP

First we must understand proof. Proof, by definition, relates only to the physical world. When we study spirit, we do not have the tools of proof. We must let go of them and make a bit more use of what we know of the subjective. It can be argued there is no beauty, no love, no joy--that they are all mere perceptions of dissimilar minds. Yet aren't they all very human experiences? And this is where spirit comes into play.

Some people do insist that it is only body and mind--things that can be measured, but to many of us, the third aspect of spirit makes sense as well.

..proof is proof --you either have it or you don't

 

[Robert Urbanek]

Don't you know there ain't no devil? There's only God when He's drunk. ― Tom Waits, "Heartattack and Vine"

 

[Meriweather]

..proof is proof --you either have it or you don't

You have been told flat out that proof belongs only to the physical world. Unless it can be shown that physical proof can also be used to prove all elements in other non-physical realities (i.e.that a person actually dreamed what they related the following morning), it is absurd and senseless for anyone to demand proof of spirits and God. People with sense and intelligence do not demand what is senseless.

There is nothing wrong with people believing that humans consists totally of mind and body--no soul/spirit--and consequently hold no belief in God either. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with people whose (unproven) experiences and/or studies have led them to a belief that human make-up also consists of a spirit that lives an eternal spiritual life under the love, guidance, and power of God.

 

[harmonica]

..proof is proof --you either have it or you don't

You have been told flat out that proof belongs only to the physical world. Unless it can be shown that physical proof can also be used to prove all elements in other non-physical realities (i.e.that a person actually dreamed what they related the following morning), it is absurd and senseless for anyone to demand proof of spirits and God. People with sense and intelligence do not demand what is senseless.

There is nothing wrong with people believing that humans consists totally of mind and body--no soul/spirit--and consequently hold no belief in God either. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with people whose (unproven) experiences and/or studies have led them to a belief that human make-up also consists of a spirit that lives an eternal spiritual life under the love, guidance, and power of God.

....you have been told flat out you are full of shit because you have no proof
... People with sense and intelligence do not believe in fairy tales
..why do you people get nasty/uncivil/impolite when members respond politely with OPPOSITE views?

 

[harmonica]

..proof is proof --you either have it or you don't

You have been told flat out that proof belongs only to the physical world. Unless it can be shown that physical proof can also be used to prove all elements in other non-physical realities (i.e.that a person actually dreamed what they related the following morning), it is absurd and senseless for anyone to demand proof of spirits and God. People with sense and intelligence do not demand what is senseless.

There is nothing wrong with people believing that humans consists totally of mind and body--no soul/spirit--and consequently hold no belief in God either. Likewise, there is nothing wrong with people whose (unproven) experiences and/or studies have led them to a belief that human make-up also consists of a spirit that lives an eternal spiritual life under the love, guidance, and power of God.

it is absurd and senseless for anyone to believe in what's not real

 

[Meriweather]

it is absurd and senseless for anyone to believe in what's not real

Yes. However, there is a difference between what is not real and what does not/cannot have physical proof.

 

[Questioner]

There was a Christian group called the Cathar that believed that the creation of the physical world was the evil reaction to the creation of the Godly spiritual world. Today, the neo Cathars carry on this belief. The Catholic Church was unable to refute this so far for 800 years in a theological debate.

Let's discuss this problem.

In the book of Gsnesis, all physical creations are good and not evil, until one day God decides to take an extra day of vacation, and gives the day to the devil to steal Eve. After that, everything that is created suffers, and suffers to this day.

Jesus came at some later time, to provide a fix for the problem, but was blocked, and may be ineffective without babtism, when baptism is a miniscule 2% chance to happen in life, as national statistics put church attendance to 2 % of population in most countries.

The Cathar solution to this problem was to simply sit out the physical, and escape the evil, by not eating or drinking until physical death, like hospices do today.

But here is the problem with this. You may escape evil that transforms you in the future of your physical life, but what do you do with the evil that has already transformed you in the present?

Discuss.

There was a line of thinking known as Gnosticism in which there were 2 gods - an "imperfect" or malevolent god known as the Demiurge who fashioned the material world in the image of a "perfect" God.

Sometimes the God in the Old Testament was said to be the Demiurge deceiving Adam and Eve, while the serpent was actually the true God in disguise, leading them away from the Demiurge.

 

[anotherlife]

There was a Christian group called the Cathar that believed that the creation of the physical world was the evil reaction to the creation of the Godly spiritual world. Today, the neo Cathars carry on this belief. The Catholic Church was unable to refute this so far for 800 years in a theological debate.

Let's discuss this problem.

In the book of Gsnesis, all physical creations are good and not evil, until one day God decides to take an extra day of vacation, and gives the day to the devil to steal Eve. After that, everything that is created suffers, and suffers to this day.

Jesus came at some later time, to provide a fix for the problem, but was blocked, and may be ineffective without babtism, when baptism is a miniscule 2% chance to happen in life, as national statistics put church attendance to 2 % of population in most countries.

The Cathar solution to this problem was to simply sit out the physical, and escape the evil, by not eating or drinking until physical death, like hospices do today.

But here is the problem with this. You may escape evil that transforms you in the future of your physical life, but what do you do with the evil that has already transformed you in the present?

Discuss.

Why do you feel the need to tell people to "DISCUSS?"

Are you afraid that maybe your topic is too boring to "DISCUSS," so you need to TELL people to?

Do you feel that people are too stupid to know to "DISCUSS?"

Is "DISCUSS" a demand, an order, or is it optional?

Other people put it to the end of their OP's so I thought I'd do it too. I don't know what it means.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

There was a Christian group called the Cathar that believed that the creation of the physical world was the evil reaction to the creation of the Godly spiritual world. Today, the neo Cathars carry on this belief. The Catholic Church was unable to refute this so far for 800 years in a theological debate.

Let's discuss this problem.

In the book of Gsnesis, all physical creations are good and not evil, until one day God decides to take an extra day of vacation, and gives the day to the devil to steal Eve. After that, everything that is created suffers, and suffers to this day.

Jesus came at some later time, to provide a fix for the problem, but was blocked, and may be ineffective without babtism, when baptism is a miniscule 2% chance to happen in life, as national statistics put church attendance to 2 % of population in most countries.

The Cathar solution to this problem was to simply sit out the physical, and escape the evil, by not eating or drinking until physical death, like hospices do today.

But here is the problem with this. You may escape evil that transforms you in the future of your physical life, but what do you do with the evil that has already transformed you in the present?

Discuss.

Is God the Devil?

If you believe in the stories God is the Alpha and Omega, and created everything and created Lucifer the fallen Angel which is the basis of the modern day Devil, so yes God is the Devil father and had evil within him that allowed Lucifer to be tainted...

 

[Picaro]

it is also translated as 'calamity', in the NKJV.

Every time somebody does not like what the bible says, they retranslate it.
How convenient!
ca·lam·i·ty
/kəˈlamədē/
noun
an event causing great and often sudden damage or distress; a disaster.

1. Similar:
   disaster
   
   catastrophe
   
   woe
   
   affliction
   
   evil

I didn't 'retranslate' anything; take it up with scholars far more educated and qualified than you are. It's in an explanatory 'speech' to Cyrus, a Gentile, about how God rewards and punishes the Jewish people according to their obedience to the Covenants, not anything to do with 'The Devil' and that sort of 'evil'. The NKJV is one of the better translations, using new material from the Dead Sea Scrolls and improved Hebrew Bible translations.

 

[ding]

LIAR!
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

We should always be cautious about the English translation of the Hebrew. There is no Hebrew word that has the same connotation as the English word 'evil'. The Hebrew in this passage would be read with the same understanding that we would give God creating light and darkness, peace and dysfunction (that which is calm and that which is stormy). Remember, the Hebrew language uses pictures, whereas English is more subjective. The Hebrew is describing balances--light and dark--followed by peace and the opposite of peace (i.e. stormy).

Hebrew and the English translation are not always perfectly compatible

Like the translation of the prophecy of the virgin birth.

Something new. Something different.

 

[edthecynic]

LIAR!
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

We should always be cautious about the English translation of the Hebrew. There is no Hebrew word that has the same connotation as the English word 'evil'. The Hebrew in this passage would be read with the same understanding that we would give God creating light and darkness, peace and dysfunction (that which is calm and that which is stormy). Remember, the Hebrew language uses pictures, whereas English is more subjective. The Hebrew is describing balances--light and dark--followed by peace and the opposite of peace (i.e. stormy).

Hebrew and the English translation are not always perfectly compatible

But the "Christians" claim their KJV translation was inspired by no less than God herself!!!! So EVIL means EVIL according to God.

 

[Meriweather]

But the "Christians" claim their KJV translation was inspired by no less than God herself!!!! So EVIL means EVIL according to God.

Oh? Which Christians? The New Revised Standard Version (including the Catholic Edition) is the Bible most preferred by scholars.