Drug cartels buy 95% of their guns in the U.S.

[Missourian]

Alaska, South Carolina, Tennessee, Nevada, Alabama, and New Mexico are pro gun. They are also in the top ten in violent crime.

So what?

 

[Missourian]

The pro gun states are all in the top ten in homicides except for states that are largely rural.

Wrong as usual.

[FONT=arial,arial]These are the 13 states with the most pro-Second Amendment laws according to the Brady Center (Oklahoma being the most pro-Second Amendment in the nation) with total firearm murders from 2007 according to the FBI and population from the Census Bureau:[/FONT]​

----------State-----------------------------# of Firearm Homicides-----------Population
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

• Arkansas ----------------------130 ------------2,810,872
• [FONT=arial,arial]Idaho -------------------------------------------------25 ---------------------1,466,465[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]New Mexico ---------------------------------------81 ---------------------1,954,599[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]South Dakota ---------------------------------------4 -----------------------781,919[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]West Virginia --------------------------------------37 --------------------1,818,470[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Mississippi ---------------------------------------119 ---------------------2,910,540[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Alaska -----------------------------------------------21 --------------------- 670,053[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Louisiana ------------------------------------------455----------------------4,287,768[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Missouri -------------------------------------------247 ---------------------5,842,713[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]North Dakota ----------------------------------------3 -----------------------635,867[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Utah ---------------------------------------------------38 --------------------2,550,063[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Kentucky ------------------------------------------131 --------------------4,206,074[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Oklahoma -------------------------------- --------132 --------------------3,579,212[/FONT]

And the 13 strictest gun control states according to the Brady Center (California being the strictest in the nation) with total firearm murders from 2007 according to the FBI and population from the Census Bureau:

• California -----------------------1,605-----36,457,549
• New Jersey ----------------------260-------8,724,560
• Connecticut ----------------------57 -------3,504,809
• Massachusetts ------------------114 -------6,437,193
• Maryland ------------------------414------- 5,615,727
• New York ------------------------500 -----19,306,183
• Rhode Island -------------------- --9 ------ 1,067,610
• Hawaii -----------------------------3 -------1,285,498
• Illinois ---------------------------343* -----12,831,970
• Pennsylvania ---------------------527 ------12,440,621
• Michigan -------------------------444 ------10,095,643
• Delaware--------------------------22 ---------853,476
• North Carolina--------------------369 --------8,856,505

* incomplete data received by the FBI



The District of Columbia is not listed on the Brady Center ranking list but it did have the strictest gun control in the nation in 2007:

• District of Columbia-----------------181--------581,530

So here is the break down for firearm homicides per number of citizens per state plus the District of Columbia with Washington D.C. being the most dangerous place to live with 1 out of every 3,212 residents murdered by firearms and Hawaii being the safest with 1 out of every 428,499 residents murdered by firearms.



The number listed is the population divided by the total firearm homicides to render 1 homicide per (X) number of residents. (Red are Strict Gun Control, Blue are Pro-gun)

1. District of Columbia -----------1 / 3,212
2. Louisiana ---------------------1 / 9,423
3. Maryland ---------------------1 / 13,564
4. Arkansas ---------------------1 / 21,622
5. California ---------------------1 / 22,714
6. Michigan ---------------------1 / 22,737
7. Pennsylvania -----------------1 / 23,606
8. Missouri ----------------------1 / 23,654
9. North Carolina ----------------1 / 24,001
10. New Mexico ------------------1 / 24,130
11. Mississippi --------------------1 / 24,458
12. Oklahoma --------------------1 / 25,115
13. Alaska -----------------------1 / 31,907
14. Kentucky ---------------------1 / 32,107
15. New Jersey -------------------1 / 33,556
16. Illinois ------------------------1 / 37,410
17. New York ---------------------1 / 38,612
18. Delaware ---------------------1 / 38,794
19. West Virgina ------------------1 / 49,147
20. Massachusetts ----------------1 / 56,466
21. Idaho -------------------------1 / 58,658
22. Connecticut -------------------1 / 61,487
23. Utah --------------------------1 / 67,106
24. Rhode Island -------------------1 / 118,623
25. South Dakota ------------------1 / 195,479
26. North Dakota -------------------1 / 211,955
27. Hawaii -------------------------1 / 428,499

Bottom line, stricter firearm laws have no effect on firearm homicides.



That is why the Brady Center uses violent crime or firearm deaths instead of actual firearm homicides even though the firearm homicides are provided by the FBI online every year.






Link to FBI Stats Table 20 - Crime in the United States 2007

Link to Brady Center state rankings list http://www.stategunlaws.org/xshare/pdf/scorecard/2007/2007_scorecard_rankings.pdf

Population from the U.S. Census Bureau State and County QuickFacts

Wikipedia Firearm Homicides for the District of Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.

 

[DiveCon]

Dive, thanks for proving my point.

The pro gun states are all in the top ten in homicides except for states that are largely rural.

uh, no they arent

 

[Chris]

The Ten States With the Highest Rates of Firearm Violence



National Firearm Injury and Death Statistics | Washington Ceasefire

 

[Chris]

Alaska, South Carolina, Tennessee, Nevada, Alabama, and New Mexico are pro gun.

They are also in the top ten in violent crime.

State Rankings--Statistical Abstract of the United States--Violent Crime Per 100,000 Population - 2004

 

[DiveCon]

another massive fail for chris, posting the same OLD data that doesnt say what he thinks it does

 

[Missourian]

They are also in the top ten in violent crime.

What does violent crime have to do with being pro-gun?

Violent crime means fists, feet, knives, blunt objects, bricks, cars, bats, brass knuckles, canes, sticks, etc. It is a useless statistic for this discussion.

It's hogwash meant to confuse.

Give me violent firearm crime and that will be useful.

 

[Missourian]

The Ten States With the Highest Rates of Firearm Violence

Rank
State
Total Number of Firearm Deaths 2004
Crude Firearm Death Rate 2004

Firearm death rate from 2004...not firearm homicide from 2007.

Here they are:

So here is the break down for firearm homicides per number of citizens per state plus the District of Columbia with Washington D.C. being the most dangerous place to live with 1 out of every 3,212 residents murdered by firearms and Hawaii being the safest with 1 out of every 428,499 residents murdered by firearms.



The number listed is the population divided by the total firearm homicides to render 1 homicide per (X) number of residents. (Red are Strict Gun Control, Blue are Pro-gun)

1. District of Columbia -----------1 / 3,212
2. Louisiana ---------------------1 / 9,423
3. Maryland ---------------------1 / 13,564
4. Arkansas ---------------------1 / 21,622
5. California ---------------------1 / 22,714
6. Michigan ---------------------1 / 22,737
7. Pennsylvania -----------------1 / 23,606
8. Missouri ----------------------1 / 23,654
9. North Carolina ----------------1 / 24,001
10. New Mexico ------------------1 / 24,130
11. Mississippi --------------------1 / 24,458
12. Oklahoma --------------------1 / 25,115
13. Alaska -----------------------1 / 31,907
14. Kentucky ---------------------1 / 32,107
15. New Jersey -------------------1 / 33,556
16. Illinois ------------------------1 / 37,410
17. New York ---------------------1 / 38,612
18. Delaware ---------------------1 / 38,794
19. West Virgina ------------------1 / 49,147
20. Massachusetts ----------------1 / 56,466
21. Idaho -------------------------1 / 58,658
22. Connecticut -------------------1 / 61,487
23. Utah --------------------------1 / 67,106
24. Rhode Island -------------------1 / 118,623
25. South Dakota ------------------1 / 195,479
26. North Dakota -------------------1 / 211,955
27. Hawaii -------------------------1 / 428,499

Bottom line, stricter firearm laws have no effect on firearm homicides.



That is why the Brady Center uses violent crime or firearm deaths instead of actual firearm homicides even though the firearm homicides are provided by the FBI online every year.

 

[Chris]

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking

States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors.

The report, which was obtained by The Washington Post, found that 10 states, including Virginia, supplied 57 percent of the guns that were recovered in crimes in other states in 2007. The 38-page report is based on an analysis of annual crime-gun data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The analysis tracks guns used in crimes back to the retailers that first sold them.

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking - washingtonpost.com

 

[Missourian]

Report Links State Gun Laws To Rates of Slayings, Trafficking

States with lax gun laws had higher rates of handgun killings, fatal shootings of police officers, and sales of weapons that were used in crimes in other states, according to a study underwritten by a group of more than 300 U.S. mayors.

Always killings and not homicide. Why?

So it includes suicide even though studies show gun control doesn't prevent suicide.

From the American Psychiatric Association's American Journal of Psychiatry :

• Guns and suicide: possible effects of some specific legislation
  
  
  CL Rich, JG Young, RC Fowler, J Wagner and NA Black
  [SIZE=-1]Department of Psychiatry, University of California, San Diego.[/SIZE] The authors describe suicide rates in Toronto and Ontario and methods used for suicide in Toronto for 5 years before and after enactment of Canadian gun control legislation in 1978. They also present data from San Diego, Calif., where state laws attempt to limit access to guns by certain psychiatric patients. Both sets of data indicate that gun control legislation may have led to decreased use of guns by suicidal men, but the difference was apparently offset by an increase in suicide by leaping. In the case of men using guns for suicide, these data support a hypothesis of substitution of suicide method.
  

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/147/3/342

In other words, using firearm killings or firearm deaths is total malarkey.


Firearm homicides are the only true test.

Want to see them again?

Here's the link to the post - http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...5-of-their-guns-in-the-u-s-6.html#post1019698

 

[Missourian]

I'm done with you Chris, post whatever you want...Firearm Homicides put the last nail in your gun control arguments coffin. PM me if you got anything new.

 

[Chris]

Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, says that the study shows that background checks work, and that they are more effective when they are more thorough. She adds, however, that even requiring additional background checks at licensed dealers will not address the biggest contributor to gun violence: the private sale of guns.

“If you’re buying a gun from a licensed gun dealer, you need to show identification and go through a background check,” Bonavia explains. “But if you buy a gun from an unlicensed dealer or private seller, which is perfectly legal, there’s no background check required, no ID required. Those sales are legal in Wisconsin and they are the source of the vast majority of crime guns … about 90% of crime guns in Wisconsin and nationwide come from this secondary market.”

Addressing this loophole, she says, is imperative to reducing the firearm homicide rate. “It’s amazing to me that we’re asking the question ‘how are these criminals getting guns?’ when we’re not even trying to prevent them,” she said.

Study Suggests Additional Background Checks Deter Gun Deaths

 

[del]

Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, says that the study shows that background checks work, and that they are more effective when they are more thorough. She adds, however, that even requiring additional background checks at licensed dealers will not address the biggest contributor to gun violence: the private sale of guns.

“If you’re buying a gun from a licensed gun dealer, you need to show identification and go through a background check,” Bonavia explains. “But if you buy a gun from an unlicensed dealer or private seller, which is perfectly legal, there’s no background check required, no ID required. Those sales are legal in Wisconsin and they are the source of the vast majority of crime guns … about 90% of crime guns in Wisconsin and nationwide come from this secondary market.”

Addressing this loophole, she says, is imperative to reducing the firearm homicide rate. “It’s amazing to me that we’re asking the question ‘how are these criminals getting guns?’ when we’re not even trying to prevent them,” she said.

Study Suggests Additional Background Checks Deter Gun Deaths