Dream Act questions

[Amelia]

If you support the Dream Act, would you agree to the deportation of young people who do not successfully complete two years in the military or in college?

Those are perfectly reasonable conditions, in the context of due process. Failing to complete school or military service shouldn’t alone result in deportation, but it should trigger an investigation as a prelude to initiating deportation proceedings. Find out why, for example, the student didn’t stay in college and see if those barriers can be addressed to allow a return.

Would you agree to the deportation of the adults who brought their children here illegally?

In most cases both the parents and children came to the US legally, their legal status was lost subsequently, such as overstaying a visa. In cases where the parents provide support for the students – in that deporting the parents would have an adverse effect on the students’ performance – they should be allowed to stay provided the student continues to do well in school. Poor performance, dropping out, expulsion, could result in deportation for both parents and student.

The children of lawbreaking illegals are the responsibility of their parents. It is not the US taxpayers' responsibility to pay for or support these children. The parents made a bad choice and took the risk by coming here illegally. If their children suffer because of that, blame the parents.

It’s un-Constitutional to punish children for the misdeeds of their parents, including undocumented children. See: Plyler v. Doe

In any event, these children are here to stay – few will realize deportation as many were brought to the US as preschoolers, some as infants – they’ve only known the US; attempts to return most to their ‘birth country’ would be cruel and pointless. Consequently, let’s educate them and make them productive members of American society – a country they love and grew up in – rather than driving them underground into poverty and crime.

There are questions, at least a couple, maybe a lot, I'd ask about this if I were a congressman, for instance, and you were testifying in favor of the Dream Act. But I'm just so glad you answered at all. I wouldn't want to turn this into an interrogation.

 

[Unkotare]

This issue is children who came to the US legally, and subsequently lost that legal status through no fault of their own.

No, that's really not the issue. You might find THAT issue easier to deal with, but that is not the issue.

 

[Unkotare]

There is some question as to the legality of "anchor babies". .

No, right now there is no question about that.

 

[Unkotare]

I had illegals who did our lawn in Houston. I speak Spanish so we talked pretty often. Great guys. I wouldn't deport them at all.

If you met bank robbers who were "great guys" would you say "I wouldn't arrest them at all"?

 

[Intense]

I agree that if they came here illegally they should be deported. One exception would be Gerado who works a taco truck in North Phoenix. The BEST carnitas. He stays!

You do realize that if the Feds actually gave a rats ass you just targeted him? Rest easy though.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I had illegals who did our lawn in Houston. I speak Spanish so we talked pretty often. Great guys. I wouldn't deport them at all.

If you met bank robbers who were "great guys" would you say "I wouldn't arrest them at all"?

"Intentional Stupidity" noun The state of being which results from intentionally being stupid.

Original Quote:

I had illegals who did our lawn in Houston. I speak Spanish so we talked pretty often. Great guys. I wouldn't deport them at all. Probably the only illegals I would deport would be those who have a criminal record at home or have committed a crime here.

 

[Unkotare]

Your "great guys" HAVE violated the laws of the United States of America.

 

[chanel]

You're probably right, many will because kids are resilient. Yet I wonder about the rhetoric of conservatives, you know, those people who always claim it's all about personal responsibility. A child brought to this country by his or her parents, who excels in school and is academically eligible to attend our public universities and win scholarships is not rewarded for their hard work.

I think that stinks.

You can always volunteer to pay their tuition. I'll help hook you up.
Seriously, compare their rights here, to yours in their home country. That's probably why they are here in the first place, granted. Yet, there presence here should not be advancing destabilization here. This is what can't be ignored.

I didn't suggest it should be ignored; I simple offered my opinion that these kids are not complicit in the crime.
I'd prefer that those who employ persons not legally able to work in this country be put in jail - actually, a Federal Prison and placed on Federal Probation for 10 years, be required to pay into social security and medicare the monies due if the employee had been a legal worker.
Put some teeth into the law and make the employer accountable - most jobs for those not legally able to work will dry up and many of those now working will go home.

There are millions of children who are not "complicit" in their parents' crimes. Yet that does not stop us from putting them in foster care when their folks go to jail.

And as far as jailing the employers... Believe it or not, many illegals have "papers". Without E-verify, it would be very difficult to prove who is at fault. We already have laws regarding slavery and income tax fraud. How about just enforcing those? Or better yet, how about enforcing immigration law?

Information about most of these people is available. Law enforcement knows many who are here illegally. Schools know. Social workers know. Hospitals know. And anyone at the IRS who sees a pile of money in taxes and no one looking for a refund, has a pretty good idea as well.

The Dream Act is far too complicated and has too many loopholes. Keep it limited and simple and perhaps the folks would get on board.

 

[chanel]

If I was convicted of stealing from the govt for 20 years and given a choice of jail or Mexico, I'd pick Mexico. Too bad Americans aren't given the same option.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Your "great guys" HAVE violated the laws of the United States of America.

Pssst. Guess what? I speed on a regular basis! Regular career criminal!

So they're serial lawn mowers. Oooh. There's a guy in Texas who has offered to relocate Americans to his farm to work out in that wonderful heat. Minimum wage PLUS free housing! TWO THOUSAND Open jobs! So far, he has 1992 left open. After two years.

You have a problem with them. Okay. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm certainly not going to sling petty insults etc... because you have your opinion (although the leaving out the criminal part was good for a little fun).
But I know I will never change your mind - just as you have zero chance of influencing me at all.
All good. As a gentleman, I can agree to disagree.

 

[jerryh60]

I agree with Wry Catcher, in that we need a national E-Verify and prosecute those that ignore it. Do I believe in blanket amnesty, not no, but hell no. Illegals contribute to a local economy only, so it would be in our best interests to find a way to have them contribute into SS and the good old IRS game.

Give each family the opportunity to enroll in the legal path to citizenship, and assign them some sort of identification card showing this. Not a SS number which they can buy anywhere. And every employer would be obligated by federal law to withhold SS and all the other junk that comes out. This would put them into the contribution mode like the rest of us. Any family that refused to enroll would be sent back to their home country. And their enrollment would be verified on a monthly basis to ensure participation.

If they really want to remain and become a citizen, this would solve that issue. But the ones that are just here to work and send the money home need to go back home.

 

[Unkotare]

Your "great guys" HAVE violated the laws of the United States of America.

Pssst. Guess what? I speed on a regular basis! Regular career criminal! .

And do you feel you should be exempt from the standard penalty for speeding just because you may consider yourself a "great guy"?

 

[Unkotare]

So they're serial lawn mowers. Oooh. There's a guy in Texas who has offered to relocate Americans to his farm to work out in that wonderful heat. Minimum wage PLUS free housing! TWO THOUSAND Open jobs! So far, he has 1992 left open. After two years. .

Sounds like that guy needs to offer more than minimum wage to fill his needs in the legal labor market. Or is it ok for him to break the law and distort that legal market just because some asshole on the internet said "Oooh"?

 

[Unkotare]

You have a problem with them. Okay. You're entitled to your opinion..

Clarify. What "problem with them" do you suppose I have that you do not? Are you flat-out defending illegal immigration and advocating open borders?

 

[IndependntLogic]

You have a problem with them. Okay. You're entitled to your opinion..

Clarify. What "problem with them" do you suppose I have that you do not? Are you flat-out defending illegal immigration and advocating open borders?

Nah. Although I love the tactic of "If you don't agree with me, you must want the radical extreme opposite of what I believe!"
I'm just not as hysterical about it as you are. Settle down amigo. There will always be people who disagree with you on things. My job, safety and so on has never been affected by illegals. I don't see any evidence to indicate that jobs are affected by illegals. Case in point: Arizona has done a "marvelous" job of getting rid of illegal immigrants (and LEGAL Hispanics). Drastic drop for almost three years now. What has happened as a result? Unemployment has gone up! Oops.
Nationwide, Obama has deported more illegals per year than Bush ever did. The effect on employment? Um yeah. Oops.
So just because Megan Kelly tells me so, doesn't mean I buy it. Which I why I said, the primary factor I would consider is crime or criminal record. I think this thing Obama is proposing today makes sense. We have a friend in La Jolla who married a Russian woman and INS told them to apply for a fiancee visa. In the meantime, her student visa expired. It has been a nightmare for them, for three years now. And she has a MSEE but won't work because it could hurt their petition.
Good Job Mr. President!
Am I right and you wrong? In my opinion yes. Do I say your opinion is not valid? No of course not. That would be the difference between us.

 

[Unkotare]

You have a problem with them. Okay. You're entitled to your opinion..

Clarify. What "problem with them" do you suppose I have that you do not? Are you flat-out defending illegal immigration and advocating open borders?

Nah. Although I love the tactic of "If you don't agree with me, you must want the radical extreme opposite of what I believe!"
I'm just not as hysterical about it as you are. Settle down amigo. There will always be people who disagree with you on things. .

Dodging is NOT a position. Answer my question. What "problem with them" do you suppose I have that you do not?


When you're done with that, answer this one: Are you opposed to or in favor of illegal immigration?


Also, " My job, safety and so on has never been affected by illegals" is not a rational position. If you've never been robbed at gunpoint, does that mean you should have no opinion on whether or not armed robbers should be prosecuted? Don't be stupid.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Clarify. What "problem with them" do you suppose I have that you do not? Are you flat-out defending illegal immigration and advocating open borders?

Nah. Although I love the tactic of "If you don't agree with me, you must want the radical extreme opposite of what I believe!"
I'm just not as hysterical about it as you are. Settle down amigo. There will always be people who disagree with you on things. .

Dodging is NOT a position. Answer my question. What "problem with them" do you suppose I have that you do not?

Well you're posts have been very emotional. You seem angry and you make ridiculous exxagerations and distort my post e.g. I specifically said anyone committing a crime should be deported and you came back with the rather laughable "So you're okay with bank robbers?" So obviously you have SOME kind of problem with them or you wouldn't object to their existence. I can guess that you believe they cost jobs and / or present a danger to us. One of those I disagree with the other I have already agreed with but since I don't completely agree in all ways, I am not part of The Borg and therefore you get um "Feelings".


When you're done with that, answer this one: Are you opposed to or in favor of illegal immigration?

Rather silly question. I would be all for legalizing everyone who is married to an American for at least a year, children born or brought here. I would also be just fine with lots of others too! Everyone with a college degree or who is willing to serve in the military sounds just great by me. Of course, the caveat that all would have to go through a thorough background check.


Also, " My job, safety and so on has never been affected by illegals" is not a rational position. If you've never been robbed at gunpoint, does that mean you should have no opinion on whether or not armed robbers should be prosecuted? Don't be stupid.

It's a completely rational position. The problem is rational thinking leaves the room when your emotions take over. It is a fact. Facts are rational. And as I've stated SEVERAL times now, any criminals or people caught in a crime should be deported. Your emotions seem to be interferring with your ability to grasp what that means. It means anyone with a criminal background or caught in a crime would be deported. Not sure I can simplify it any more than that. Sorry if it's still to complicated for you to figure out.
As far as your petty "Don't be stupid" jab, seriously look at your inability to figure out what "criminal or caught in a crime" means and you will see where that might more accurately apply.

 

[Unkotare]

Well you're posts have been very emotional. You seem angry and you make ridiculous exxagerations and distort my post e.g. I specifically said anyone committing a crime should be deported and you came back with the rather laughable "So you're okay with bank robbers?" So obviously you have SOME kind of problem with them or you wouldn't object to their existence..

Since you STILLL won't answer the original question, I'll try again:

What "kind of problem" are you referring to?

and

What exactly do you mean by "object to their existence"?

and last but by no means least

Is it or is it not a violation of US law to enter and/or remain in the US illegally?

Try to find the courage to answer these questions directly.

 

[Unkotare]

Rather silly question. I would be all for legalizing everyone who is married to an American for at least a year, children born or brought here. I would also be just fine with lots of others too! Everyone with a college degree or who is willing to serve in the military sounds just great by me. Of course, the caveat that all would have to go through a thorough background check.

Nothing "silly" about it, and you STILL haven't answered it. You have, using all the reasoning power of a 13 year old girl, listed certain people you would pardon for the offense of entering the country illegally but you haven't said whether or not you oppose or support illegal immigration itself.

Answer the question.

 

[Unkotare]

It's a completely rational position. .

Is it rational to say "I've never been robbed at gunpoint, so I have no opinion on whether armed robbers should be prosecuted and punished?


Once again: Is it or is it not a violation of US law to enter and/or remain in the US illegally? I'll try to make it simpler because you are obviously so fucking stupid: Has someone who entered the US illegally and remains in the country illegally violated US law?