Draft: Right or Wrong?

[Muhammed]

The draft is great.

Historically, conscription has always been the tool of the worst authoritarian despots, warlords and tyrants.

Yes just like your country Abu.

I agree. Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt immediately come to mind.

 

[High_Gravity]

Historically, conscription has always been the tool of the worst authoritarian despots, warlords and tyrants.

Yes just like your country Abu.

I agree. Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt immediately come to mind.

Funny, I didn't know those two were Arab Muslims.

 

[Muhammed]

Yes just like your country Abu.

I agree. Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt immediately come to mind.

Funny, I didn't know those two were Arab Muslims.

Of course nobody has suggested that they were in the first place DAN.

 

[High_Gravity]

I agree. Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt immediately come to mind.

Funny, I didn't know those two were Arab Muslims.

Of course nobody has suggested that they were in the first place DAN.

Ok Abu.

 

[Cain]

Volunteer army has been so much better than the armies before. And there has never been a time when the draft here was anything but disgraceful.

Volunteer means more committed, better disciplined, smarter, better trained.

The only problem with the all volunteer force is that it looks as if it is going to create a sort of aristocracy. A kid goes in for three years, his college is paid for, so he does that. He has the military on his resume, and employers see getting out of the military with an E4 or better as a huge positive. So anyone who has done a tour in the military and then done college is going to have the pick of the cream of occupations when he gets out.

Then you have to compare to the veterans I have seen that are not exactly 'upper class'. I am going in, that doesn't make me aristocracy. Not even close.

I understand, a lot of veterans utilize their utility. They use the training they had and put it into action. I have several examples of this in my family, and then....I have examples of people who are so "stuck" in what they had to do in other nations, they do dead-end jobs because they have no purpose to move on when their still trying to figure out what happened years ago.

Calling the military the aristocracy has a truth, that they get college paid for, but then their is always the risk of death, dishonorable discharge, etc. But also, not many careers can have the same affect on people emotionally/mentally. I would consider it a risk worth taking, but I didn't join for college, I could probably get by on college easier then others, but I chose to do the military cause it's all I've ever wanted. That is why when I had a guy I really admire tell me "I just joined for the college fund." I was awed. Because, I seen a new face of America, a face of individual want that benefits the majority.

If your willing to sacrifice, however many years, as a soldier, then go for the college, sadly a lot of people fail at college, including veterans or ROTC'ers. Although I am sure many pass, the one's that fail, if they joined for that reason, have now failed the purpose they joined, which would be crushing to anyone I think.

 

[MikeK]

As a person who was drafted into the Army to fight in Vietnam in April of 1970

You have a more professional army when it is volunteer and not conscripted.


The only upside to the Vietnam draft was that it made the American people aware of the governments misguided policies and demand an end to the war.

When they saw thousands of body bags being flown in on the nightly news.


If we had used the draft for the current conflict in Iran and Afghanistan.

The American public would have demanded we declare "Victory" several years ago and leave.

If it were not for the draft we probably would still be fighting in Vietnam. The protest is why Nixon pulled out of Vietnam. The protest movement was fueled predominately by draft eligibles and the relatives of draftees.

Because of the lesson learned in Vietnam I don't believe Bush would have gotten away with his Iraq scam if the draft was active. But if he did I'm sure you are right about it being abandoned soon after racking up a few hundred dead young Americans and spending a few hundred billion dollars for absolutely no good reason.

One very positive aspect to the draft is it builds a pool of millions of trained, former soldiers in the civilian sector who can be activated and made combat ready in a matter of weeks rather than the months it takes to train raw recruits. When we were attacked in 1941 the time it took to organize a draft and train the number of troops we needed enabled the Japanese to establish strong footholds in places like Iwo Jima, Tarawa and others. If we'd had the troops needed to cut their effort short, Bataan need not have fallen and it would have saved thousands of American lives and shortened the War.

What concerns me now is if we get involved in armed conflict with China our boots on the ground are vastly outnumbered and, as it was in 1941, it will take months to catch up -- if in fact we are capable of doing so with our spoiled, military-phobic population. That will leave us with only the nuclear option, which means surrender or annihilation

 

[MikeK]

The draft is great.

Historically, conscription has always been the tool of the worst authoritarian despots, warlords and tyrants.

In a democratic society conscription is a means of maintaining optimal military readiness.

 

[Sallow]

Wrong. It is morally reprehensible to stick a weapon in the hand of someone who isn't prepared to take a life and tell them to go and use it in combat.

Furthermore, at no time during our history has the implementation of the draft been done in a fair way. The wealthy and connected get out of it and someone else has to go in their place.

If the cause is just enough, you won't need a draft.

The invasion of Iraq was "just"?

Really?

 

[geauxtohell]

Wrong. It is morally reprehensible to stick a weapon in the hand of someone who isn't prepared to take a life and tell them to go and use it in combat.

Furthermore, at no time during our history has the implementation of the draft been done in a fair way. The wealthy and connected get out of it and someone else has to go in their place.

If the cause is just enough, you won't need a draft.

The invasion of Iraq was "just"?

Really?

No. That was a logical leap on your part.

People didn't flood the recruiting stations to go fight in Iraq. In fact, the military had to lower the standards.

Even though Iraq was a cluster-fuck, using a draft to try and hasten it's demise only makes the guys on the line suffer.

What I would support would be a mandatory up-front income tax to cover the cost of any war we engage in.

We'll see how cavalier that makes the politicians.

 

[MaggieMae]

With only 1% of all Americans sacrificing in some way for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the other 99% sitting around discussing it from the comfort of our armchairs and computer screens, I'd say the entire issue of reinstating some form of draft needs serious discussion, because leaving it up to 1% is totally unacceptable.

 

[Sallow]

Wrong. It is morally reprehensible to stick a weapon in the hand of someone who isn't prepared to take a life and tell them to go and use it in combat.

Furthermore, at no time during our history has the implementation of the draft been done in a fair way. The wealthy and connected get out of it and someone else has to go in their place.

If the cause is just enough, you won't need a draft.

The invasion of Iraq was "just"?

Really?

No. That was a logical leap on your part.

No it wasn't. You posted "If the cause is just enough, you won't need a draft".

WWII was probably about the "most" just war I can think of..and a draft was still needed.

People didn't flood the recruiting stations to go fight in Iraq. In fact, the military had to lower the standards.

Even though Iraq was a cluster-fuck, using a draft to try and hasten it's demise only makes the guys on the line suffer.

What I would support would be a mandatory up-front income tax to cover the cost of any war we engage in.

We'll see how cavalier that makes the politicians.

I would support not invading other countries because they say bad things about us. Cavalier or not. Our goal should be defense. And squashing a genocide or two ain't so bad either. But Iraq was far worse then a "cluster-fuck".

 

[Muhammed]

The draft is great.

Historically, conscription has always been the tool of the worst authoritarian despots, warlords and tyrants.

In a democratic society conscription is a means of maintaining optimal military readiness.

That could be relevant if a democratic society existed.

 

[rightwinger]

We have a voluntary Military for 35 years. We also have the most powerful military in the history of mankind. There is no threat to our power. Why change?

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

I don't care if there is or aint. I'm RE-4.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

We have a voluntary Military for 35 years. We also have the most powerful military in the history of mankind. There is no threat to our power. Why change?

Ever heard of CHINA?

Seriously, how do you manage such ignorance?

 

[rdean]

Volunteer army has been so much better than the armies before. And there has never been a time when the draft here was anything but disgraceful.

Volunteer means more committed, better disciplined, smarter, better trained.

The only problem with the all volunteer force is that it looks as if it is going to create a sort of aristocracy. A kid goes in for three years, his college is paid for, so he does that. He has the military on his resume, and employers see getting out of the military with an E4 or better as a huge positive. So anyone who has done a tour in the military and then done college is going to have the pick of the cream of occupations when he gets out.

Every time you write something, I realize how little you understand how things work.

I was in the military. Rich people do not go into the military unless they have committed some crime and the judge gave them a choice. It's supposed to be illegal, but it happens all the time.

People go in to escape poverty, get a guaranteed home loan, and get the GI Bill. No one goes to live in a trench because they love a country that turns it's back on them unless they're rich.

Besides, if rich people love this country so damn much, how come they don't serve? Duh! They don'e even want to pay taxes.

After you get that education and that home and start a family, THEN you realize how much you love this country because you were able to do something here that you couldn't do someplace or even anyplace else. No one loves anything for no reason.

Being overseas and seeing what it's like in other countries helps.

In fact, because of the wars, the military as accepted a bunch of felons that otherwise never would have gotten in. They raised the age to be a private to what? Forty or something outrageous? Do you even need a high school diploma anymore?

We should have a draft. Give EVERYONE the chance to really love this country. Let's see how fast those rich assholes in congress would be willing to send their kids off to some place like Iraq.

 

[rdean]

We have a voluntary Military for 35 years. We also have the most powerful military in the history of mankind. There is no threat to our power. Why change?

With enough power to destroy the world a dozen times over, the threat isn't to our military, it's to our citizens in the form of terrorist acts. Like 9/11. In 9/11, the real weapons were ignorance and box cutters. Hardly super dangerous, yet they were.

 

[uscitizen]

I was drafted for combat in Iraq.

A couple of conditions I feel is necessary for a fair draft.

No exceptions for the rich. You are drafted you go.
Cheney should have gone.

However you should be able to opt out of combat duty. Many are not suited for combat. And may have religious or morals preventing them from killing others.
As shown by our volunteer military we have plenty that choose combat.

In my opinion we have not had one necessary war since WW2.

 

[Bones]

As I said earlier, there is already a de facto draft being conducted in the United States as we speak. A socio-economic draft. The poor and middle class fight the nonsensical wars our leaders send us in to die for. The profits the rich reap in from dead cannon fodder is incredible.

Ask Halliburton, DynCorp and Xe.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

As I said earlier, there is already a de facto draft being conducted in the United States as we speak. A socio-economic draft. The poor and middle class fight the nonsensical wars our leaders send us in to die for. The profits the rich reap in from dead cannon fodder is incredible.

Ask Halliburton, DynCorp and Xe.

Oh dear......you seem to be another tin foil hatter, DNC talkin point parroting, lefty sheep.

How very disappointing...........