Dow futures slump more than 300 points as fears of a U.S.-China trade war ratchet up

[McRocket]

DOW down over 200 points in pre-market trading.

If it opens at this level, that would mean the DOW has basically done zip in the last 8 months of trading.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Oh good, another shallow, hyper-partisan thread on the stock market and macroeconomics. We need at least two or three of these per day.

The market gets a little emotional now and then, the "press" tries comically to assign various motivations, and each end of the spectrum celebrates any bad stock market news when the other side is in power. And, of course, both sides pretend the stock market is the economy when it suits them.

Ultimately, the market always calms down and remembers it's just about earnings.

Gawd, this stuff is so silly, so ignorant, and so transparent.
.

When the dow goes down it is because of:

1. Republicans and their policies

2. Greedy Corporate America

If you do not believe then ask anyone that watches MSNBC, CNN or other mainstream media outlets and they will gladly tell you that if the dow falls it is one of the two I just listed...

When the Dow would go up and down during Obama term, well the down was because of the GOP House and Greedy Corporate Executives and the up was because of Obama and his glorious leadership...

See how it works?

 

[Mac1958]

Oh good, another shallow, hyper-partisan thread on the stock market and macroeconomics. We need at least two or three of these per day.

The market gets a little emotional now and then, the "press" tries comically to assign various motivations, and each end of the spectrum celebrates any bad stock market news when the other side is in power. And, of course, both sides pretend the stock market is the economy when it suits them.

Ultimately, the market always calms down and remembers it's just about earnings.

Gawd, this stuff is so silly, so ignorant, and so transparent.
.

When the dow goes down it is because of:

1. Republicans and their policies

2. Greedy Corporate America

If you do not believe then ask anyone that watches MSNBC, CNN or other mainstream media outlets and they will gladly tell you that if the dow falls it is one of the two I just listed...

When the Dow would go up and down during Obama term, well the down was because of the GOP House and Greedy Corporate Executives and the up was because of Obama and his glorious leadership...

See how it works?

Yeah. The general principle for out-of-power wingers is to hope for and celebrate the worst and minimize/deflect away any good news.

Both ends are pretty obvious, and they're too full of themselves to see it.

This party-over-country shit is killing us.
.

 

[McRocket]

Oh good, another shallow, hyper-partisan thread on the stock market and macroeconomics. We need at least two or three of these per day.

The market gets a little emotional now and then, the "press" tries comically to assign various motivations, and each end of the spectrum celebrates any bad stock market news when the other side is in power. And, of course, both sides pretend the stock market is the economy when it suits them.

Ultimately, the market always calms down and remembers it's just about earnings.

Gawd, this stuff is so silly, so ignorant, and so transparent.
.

When the dow goes down it is because of:

1. Republicans and their policies

2. Greedy Corporate America

If you do not believe then ask anyone that watches MSNBC, CNN or other mainstream media outlets and they will gladly tell you that if the dow falls it is one of the two I just listed...

When the Dow would go up and down during Obama term, well the down was because of the GOP House and Greedy Corporate Executives and the up was because of Obama and his glorious leadership...

See how it works?

Of course, both of your examples are wrong (as I assume you know).

The DOW goes up and down for a myriad of reasons.

The main reasons the DOW zoomed under Obama and initially under Trump was primarily to do with ZIRP and QE (both via the Fed). And both parties agreed with this FED policy.

The main reason the DOW has been flat for 8 months is because ZIRP and QE are ending PLUS Trump is ramping up trade fears (unnecessarily, IMO).

So the main reason for the DOW's performance between early April 2009 and early 2018 was the Federal Reserve...not either party (though both parties made sure the people whom are running the Fed continued ZIRP and QE).

Politics in and of itself has VERY little to do with the DOW (unless they directly influence the economy - as Trump's tariffs/trade threats have).

If you do not know this - then you do not understand macroeconomics.


Personally, I don't give a shit who is in power...so long as they balance the books, help those who cannot help themselves, do NOT get militarily involved in foreign affairs (unless a state of war is declared) and leave the economy alone.

However, arrogant and/or ignorant people on this subject (like Mac1958 and possibly yourself) assume that if someone disapproves of a political policy (like Trump's trade ideas)...that means they MUST be taking sides.
They simply cannot fathom that one can have opinions of individual policies WITHOUT necessarily being politically partisan.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Oh good, another shallow, hyper-partisan thread on the stock market and macroeconomics. We need at least two or three of these per day.

The market gets a little emotional now and then, the "press" tries comically to assign various motivations, and each end of the spectrum celebrates any bad stock market news when the other side is in power. And, of course, both sides pretend the stock market is the economy when it suits them.

Ultimately, the market always calms down and remembers it's just about earnings.

Gawd, this stuff is so silly, so ignorant, and so transparent.
.

When the dow goes down it is because of:

1. Republicans and their policies

2. Greedy Corporate America

If you do not believe then ask anyone that watches MSNBC, CNN or other mainstream media outlets and they will gladly tell you that if the dow falls it is one of the two I just listed...

When the Dow would go up and down during Obama term, well the down was because of the GOP House and Greedy Corporate Executives and the up was because of Obama and his glorious leadership...

See how it works?

Yeah. The general principle for out-of-power wingers is to hope for and celebrate the worst and minimize/deflect away any good news.

Both ends are pretty obvious, and they're too full of themselves to see it.

This party-over-country shit is killing us.
.

How dare you my kind sir but it is well known my poitical party is better than yours!!!

( it remind you of those that still scream their daddy can beat your daddy up nonsense )

It is true the op'er is looking for any negative story so it can justify their support of the opposition party that is out of power.

You are also correct when Obama was in office many on the right did the same damn thing...

As we sip our coffee and you get your daily dose of bloomberg and I surf Al Jazeera it make me wonder when will we get off the fence and become partisan whores that use the Dow Jones Index to justify our hatred for the political party in power?

Maybe we are not miserable enough yet or we are more of a byproduct of a dying breed or both or something else...

But let me not derail the mad rantings of this great and wonderful thread because our OP is attempting to teach us Trump policies are bad and we must comply...

 

[McRocket]

DOW down over 300 as of now.

 

[McRocket]

FANG Freefall Continues

'Safe-haven' FANG stocks are getting slammed this morning, extending Friday's losses as China trade war rhetoric tamps down the market's enthusiasm for piling money into no-brainer extreme multiple stocks...

This is the biggest drop in FANG stocks in almost 3 months...'


FANG Freefall Continues

 

[McRocket]

If Trump wants to keep both houses...he should hold off on all this tariff crap until after November.

This may not cost him the 2 houses by themselves. But they sure are not helping things.

 

[McRocket]

Make that down 450 on the day (so far).

And the VIX started the day at 13.77...is now over 18.

 

[McRocket]

Stocks Surge After Navarro Says "No Plan For Investment Restrictions", Calls Market Slide "Overreaction"

'With stocks threatening to collapse into the close, just after 3:30pm Trump's trade advisor, and the alleged brain behind the Chinese trade war, emerged with some soothing words for stocks, saying that there are no plans to impose investment restrictions - even though Steven Mnuchin clearly said there are, and not just China but all countries - and that today's market slide is an overreaction, clearly unable to grasp that for the US trade position to be taken seriously, the markets have to dump.'

Stocks Surge After Navarro Says "No Plan For Investment Restrictions", Calls Market Slide "Overreaction"

 

[McRocket]

Was the Tuesday (and this week's) drop in the DOW primarily due to Trump's trade threats/tariffs? Yes or no?

Hard to say for sure. As I said, the media loves to provide simplistic reasons for complicated matters. I've made no moves for any of my clients based on these little day-to-day dramas, nor has anyone I know. We know that this situation could change tomorrow.

See, you get your market/economic "news", information and opinion from the media.

I get such information straight from analysts, researchers, wires, fund managers and industry peers whom I admire and trust.

You cherry-pick and post "news" items from these sites that match your opinion, and avoid/ignore that which does not.

I have no such luxury. I have to carefully and objectively analyze a variety of inputs, and make careful and sober judgements and decisions on that input that directly affect the financial well-being of my +/- 215 advisory clients and families and +/- 95 business clients.

So we're a little different. I have to take this stuff seriously, while you get to act like an angry and petulant eight-year-old on the internet.
.

Still 'hard to say for sure' if this recent drop in the DOW is mostly due to Trump's tariff/trade threats?


Note - if you still think so, then you owe it to your (supposed) clients to retire IMMEDIATELY...because you know shit about macroeconomics. It was pathetic enough that you did not grasp the RIDICULOUSLY obvious last week. But if you are still unsure...you are utterly hopeless at this.

 

[Mac1958]

Was the Tuesday (and this week's) drop in the DOW primarily due to Trump's trade threats/tariffs? Yes or no?

Hard to say for sure. As I said, the media loves to provide simplistic reasons for complicated matters. I've made no moves for any of my clients based on these little day-to-day dramas, nor has anyone I know. We know that this situation could change tomorrow.

See, you get your market/economic "news", information and opinion from the media.

I get such information straight from analysts, researchers, wires, fund managers and industry peers whom I admire and trust.

You cherry-pick and post "news" items from these sites that match your opinion, and avoid/ignore that which does not.

I have no such luxury. I have to carefully and objectively analyze a variety of inputs, and make careful and sober judgements and decisions on that input that directly affect the financial well-being of my +/- 215 advisory clients and families and +/- 95 business clients.

So we're a little different. I have to take this stuff seriously, while you get to act like an angry and petulant eight-year-old on the internet.
.

Still 'hard to say for sure' if this recent drop in the DOW is mostly due to Trump's tariff/trade threats?


Note - if you still think so, then you owe it to your (supposed) clients to retire IMMEDIATELY...because you know shit about macroeconomics. It was pathetic enough that you did not grasp the RIDICULOUSLY obvious last week. But if you are still unsure...you are utterly hopeless at this.

That's the current meme. But I also know that the trade situation could change tomorrow, and the market would react accordingly. And there's also going to be a downdraft effect, where people sell into momentum.

Unlike you, I look long term, unlike you I know not to extrapolate market movements, and unlike you, I'm hoping for the best.

So, you can enjoy the damage, and my practice is just fine.

You are one miserable, nasty person. I feel sorry for you.
.

 

[McRocket]

Was the Tuesday (and this week's) drop in the DOW primarily due to Trump's trade threats/tariffs? Yes or no?

Hard to say for sure. As I said, the media loves to provide simplistic reasons for complicated matters. I've made no moves for any of my clients based on these little day-to-day dramas, nor has anyone I know. We know that this situation could change tomorrow.

See, you get your market/economic "news", information and opinion from the media.

I get such information straight from analysts, researchers, wires, fund managers and industry peers whom I admire and trust.

You cherry-pick and post "news" items from these sites that match your opinion, and avoid/ignore that which does not.

I have no such luxury. I have to carefully and objectively analyze a variety of inputs, and make careful and sober judgements and decisions on that input that directly affect the financial well-being of my +/- 215 advisory clients and families and +/- 95 business clients.

So we're a little different. I have to take this stuff seriously, while you get to act like an angry and petulant eight-year-old on the internet.
.

Still 'hard to say for sure' if this recent drop in the DOW is mostly due to Trump's tariff/trade threats?


Note - if you still think so, then you owe it to your (supposed) clients to retire IMMEDIATELY...because you know shit about macroeconomics. It was pathetic enough that you did not grasp the RIDICULOUSLY obvious last week. But if you are still unsure...you are utterly hopeless at this.

That's the current meme. But I also know that the trade situation could change tomorrow, and the market would react accordingly. And there's also going to be a downdraft effect, where people sell into momentum.

Unlike you, I look long term, unlike you I know not to extrapolate market movements, and unlike you, I'm hoping for the best.

So, you can enjoy the damage, and my practice is just fine.

You are one miserable, nasty person. I feel sorry for you.
.

Hey...you are the one that put words in my mouth and was an asshole first pal. So look in the mirror for the blame for me treating you like you deserve.
Plus you are arrogant and rude to others (other then me)...I don't like people like that.


And you ducked my question....it is only 'yes' or 'no'. I did not ask about the future...I asked ONLY about the recent past and today.

(for God's sakes...when Navarro came out and threw the markets a bone - the DOW immediately skyrocketed 100 points right before the close. How can you be so INCREDIBLY blind?)

Is the recent DOW drop primarily (not completely - primarily) to do with Trump' s tariffs/trade threats.

YES OR NO?

 

[Mac1958]

Was the Tuesday (and this week's) drop in the DOW primarily due to Trump's trade threats/tariffs? Yes or no?

Hard to say for sure. As I said, the media loves to provide simplistic reasons for complicated matters. I've made no moves for any of my clients based on these little day-to-day dramas, nor has anyone I know. We know that this situation could change tomorrow.

See, you get your market/economic "news", information and opinion from the media.

I get such information straight from analysts, researchers, wires, fund managers and industry peers whom I admire and trust.

You cherry-pick and post "news" items from these sites that match your opinion, and avoid/ignore that which does not.

I have no such luxury. I have to carefully and objectively analyze a variety of inputs, and make careful and sober judgements and decisions on that input that directly affect the financial well-being of my +/- 215 advisory clients and families and +/- 95 business clients.

So we're a little different. I have to take this stuff seriously, while you get to act like an angry and petulant eight-year-old on the internet.
.

Still 'hard to say for sure' if this recent drop in the DOW is mostly due to Trump's tariff/trade threats?


Note - if you still think so, then you owe it to your (supposed) clients to retire IMMEDIATELY...because you know shit about macroeconomics. It was pathetic enough that you did not grasp the RIDICULOUSLY obvious last week. But if you are still unsure...you are utterly hopeless at this.

That's the current meme. But I also know that the trade situation could change tomorrow, and the market would react accordingly. And there's also going to be a downdraft effect, where people sell into momentum.

Unlike you, I look long term, unlike you I know not to extrapolate market movements, and unlike you, I'm hoping for the best.

So, you can enjoy the damage, and my practice is just fine.

You are one miserable, nasty person. I feel sorry for you.
.

Hey...you are the one that put words in my mouth and was an asshole first pal. So look in the mirror for the blame for me treating you like you deserve.
Plus you are arrogant and rude to others (other then me)...I don't like people like that.


And you ducked my question....it is only 'yes' or 'no'. I did not ask about the future...I asked ONLY about the recent past and today.

(for God's sakes...when Navarro came out and threw the markets a bone - the DOW immediately skyrocketed 100 points right before the close. How can you be so INCREDIBLY blind?)

Is the recent DOW drop primarily (not completely - primarily) to do with Trump' s tariffs/trade threats.

YES OR NO?

Yes, I think so.

Which doesn't in the least change my original post, the one that has set you off like nothing I've ever seen.

I gave you a direct answer, please return the favor:

Would you say that you're like this in real life?
.

 

[McRocket]

Was the Tuesday (and this week's) drop in the DOW primarily due to Trump's trade threats/tariffs? Yes or no?

Hard to say for sure. As I said, the media loves to provide simplistic reasons for complicated matters. I've made no moves for any of my clients based on these little day-to-day dramas, nor has anyone I know. We know that this situation could change tomorrow.

See, you get your market/economic "news", information and opinion from the media.

I get such information straight from analysts, researchers, wires, fund managers and industry peers whom I admire and trust.

You cherry-pick and post "news" items from these sites that match your opinion, and avoid/ignore that which does not.

I have no such luxury. I have to carefully and objectively analyze a variety of inputs, and make careful and sober judgements and decisions on that input that directly affect the financial well-being of my +/- 215 advisory clients and families and +/- 95 business clients.

So we're a little different. I have to take this stuff seriously, while you get to act like an angry and petulant eight-year-old on the internet.
.

Still 'hard to say for sure' if this recent drop in the DOW is mostly due to Trump's tariff/trade threats?


Note - if you still think so, then you owe it to your (supposed) clients to retire IMMEDIATELY...because you know shit about macroeconomics. It was pathetic enough that you did not grasp the RIDICULOUSLY obvious last week. But if you are still unsure...you are utterly hopeless at this.

That's the current meme. But I also know that the trade situation could change tomorrow, and the market would react accordingly. And there's also going to be a downdraft effect, where people sell into momentum.

Unlike you, I look long term, unlike you I know not to extrapolate market movements, and unlike you, I'm hoping for the best.

So, you can enjoy the damage, and my practice is just fine.

You are one miserable, nasty person. I feel sorry for you.
.

Hey...you are the one that put words in my mouth and was an asshole first pal. So look in the mirror for the blame for me treating you like you deserve.
Plus you are arrogant and rude to others (other then me)...I don't like people like that.


And you ducked my question....it is only 'yes' or 'no'. I did not ask about the future...I asked ONLY about the recent past and today.

(for God's sakes...when Navarro came out and threw the markets a bone - the DOW immediately skyrocketed 100 points right before the close. How can you be so INCREDIBLY blind?)

Is the recent DOW drop primarily (not completely - primarily) to do with Trump' s tariffs/trade threats.

YES OR NO?

Yes, I think so.

Which doesn't in the least change my original post, the one that has set you off like nothing I've ever seen.

I gave you a direct answer, please return the favor:

Would you say that you're like this in real life?
.

So last week's DOW drop you have no idea if it was or was not due PRIMARILY to Trump's tariffs/trade threats? But all of a sudden - this week you are - sort of - sure.

Brother...you are in the wrong line of work if something so staggering obvious as what has hit the DOW (I am NOT talking about any other index - JUST the DOW) over the last 8 days leaves you unsure as to it's primary cause.
I am not saying that to attack you....I am giving you sincere advice. You (or so you say) are responsible for other people's money, for God's sake. And even this INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS sign is going more or less right over your head?


To answer your question? Yes, when I see people - in real life - being arrogant, condescending and mean to others, do I verbally attack them? You bet I do.


We are done here, for now.
Clearly you do not have a firm grasp on macroeconomics and also appear also closed minded on....er....everything. So further discussion with you is clearly pointless.

Have a nice day.

 

[Mac1958]

Hard to say for sure. As I said, the media loves to provide simplistic reasons for complicated matters. I've made no moves for any of my clients based on these little day-to-day dramas, nor has anyone I know. We know that this situation could change tomorrow.

See, you get your market/economic "news", information and opinion from the media.

I get such information straight from analysts, researchers, wires, fund managers and industry peers whom I admire and trust.

You cherry-pick and post "news" items from these sites that match your opinion, and avoid/ignore that which does not.

I have no such luxury. I have to carefully and objectively analyze a variety of inputs, and make careful and sober judgements and decisions on that input that directly affect the financial well-being of my +/- 215 advisory clients and families and +/- 95 business clients.

So we're a little different. I have to take this stuff seriously, while you get to act like an angry and petulant eight-year-old on the internet.
.

Still 'hard to say for sure' if this recent drop in the DOW is mostly due to Trump's tariff/trade threats?


Note - if you still think so, then you owe it to your (supposed) clients to retire IMMEDIATELY...because you know shit about macroeconomics. It was pathetic enough that you did not grasp the RIDICULOUSLY obvious last week. But if you are still unsure...you are utterly hopeless at this.

That's the current meme. But I also know that the trade situation could change tomorrow, and the market would react accordingly. And there's also going to be a downdraft effect, where people sell into momentum.

Unlike you, I look long term, unlike you I know not to extrapolate market movements, and unlike you, I'm hoping for the best.

So, you can enjoy the damage, and my practice is just fine.

You are one miserable, nasty person. I feel sorry for you.
.

Hey...you are the one that put words in my mouth and was an asshole first pal. So look in the mirror for the blame for me treating you like you deserve.
Plus you are arrogant and rude to others (other then me)...I don't like people like that.


And you ducked my question....it is only 'yes' or 'no'. I did not ask about the future...I asked ONLY about the recent past and today.

(for God's sakes...when Navarro came out and threw the markets a bone - the DOW immediately skyrocketed 100 points right before the close. How can you be so INCREDIBLY blind?)

Is the recent DOW drop primarily (not completely - primarily) to do with Trump' s tariffs/trade threats.

YES OR NO?

Yes, I think so.

Which doesn't in the least change my original post, the one that has set you off like nothing I've ever seen.

I gave you a direct answer, please return the favor:

Would you say that you're like this in real life?
.

So last week's DOW drop you have no idea if it was or was not due PRIMARILY to Trump's tariffs/trade threats? But all of a sudden - this week you are - sort of - sure.

Brother...you are in the wrong line of work if something so staggering obvious as what has hit the DOW (I am NOT talking about any other index - JUST the DOW) over the last 8 days leaves you unsure as to it's primary cause.
I am not saying that to attack you....I am giving you sincere advice. You (or so you say) are responsible for other people's money, for God's sake. And even this INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS sign is going more or less right over your head?


To answer your question? Yes, when I see people - in real life - being arrogant, condescending and mean to others, do I verbally attack them? You bet I do.


We are done here, for now.
Clearly you do not have a firm grasp on macroeconomics and also appear also closed minded on....er....everything. So further discussion with you is clearly pointless.

Have a nice day.

Yes, my views on the market and economy change daily or weekly, as input (not ideological opinion) presents itself. They're not driven by an ideology, and I must admit, I will always hope for the best, even with Trump in office.

I never made a prediction, just a comment. And holy cow, it really struck a nerve.

And thanks for the response. It was the one I feared, but it is what it is.
.

 

[Nova78]

'U.S. stock futures fell sharply on Tuesday, as global equities careened lower on a fresh threat by President Donald Trump to slap up to $400 billion more in tariffs on China goods, the latest escalation in a worrying trade dispute.'

Dow futures slump more than 300 points as fears of a U.S.-China trade war ratchet up


The DOW will now probably open down for the year...mostly thanks to Trump's stupid trade policies.

Your a complete moron. fuck China.

 

[JBvM]

'U.S. stock futures fell sharply on Tuesday, as global equities careened lower on a fresh threat by President Donald Trump to slap up to $400 billion more in tariffs on China goods, the latest escalation in a worrying trade dispute.'

Dow futures slump more than 300 points as fears of a U.S.-China trade war ratchet up


The DOW will now probably open down for the year...mostly thanks to Trump's stupid trade policies.

and add this here nugget

{ if you’re in the business of making economic predictions, it has become very difficult to disregard an important signal from the bond market.

The so-called yield curve is perilously close to predicting a recession — something it has done before with surprising accuracy — and it’s become a big topic on Wall Street. } - found behind a paywall. (people here to cheap to pay creators/entrepreneurs?)

 

[Mac1958]

The so-called yield curve is perilously close to predicting a recession — something it has done before with surprising accuracy — and it’s become a big topic on Wall Street.

This is one of the big ones, at least psychologically. Even those of us who are hoping for the best recognize that we're at the tail end of a very long bull, and markets are already very wary. We either have one last nice run up or we'll see a bear. If Trump's game of Trade War Chicken goes on much longer, more investors will move to safety and the yield curve may invert. But it we see some international capitulation on trade, you'll see one helluva turnaround. My guess is that if we don't see (a) the "trade war" calm down and/or (b) a significant increase in domestic wages by mid to late Fall, the shit could hit the fan.

This trade thing is a piece of a larger puzzle, as is pretty much everything. Partisan politics aside.
.

 

[joaquinmiller]

I don't think Trump trying to pick individual winners and losers is going to help. His threat of punitive taxation against Harley-Davidson should give pause to "small government" conservatives - if there actually are any.